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May 2024 Wrestling Talk


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The Flair Paisanos thing would be an amazing thing for some wrestling fed to parody if not for one fed being run by a Ric Flair superfan and the other fed being one that kinda sorta employs Flair

At the risk of the Bucks parodying the Paisanos video

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Regarding good overbooked matches, Raven vs. Saturn at Fall Brawl '98 doesn't get really good until the overbooking. It depends on well-executed overbooking to go from "solid match" to "great match."

Then again, if something has a lot of ga-ga, but the ga-ga enhances the match, then it isn't really overbooked. It's well-booked. I submit that we change the term overbooked match to the term gagaful match

Or jibberjabberful match, I'm not picky. 

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27 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Guessing there was some news with the Iron Claw movie which is why various Von Erich articles were among the most read on Wikipedia yesterday

It's steaming on HBO M- er, MAX now. 

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Guessing there was some news with the Iron Claw movie which is why various Von Erich articles were among the most read on Wikipedia yesterday

 

45 minutes ago, Coletti said:

It's steaming on HBO M- er, MAX now. 

Ah, thanks for this. I was wondering why three of my friends all separately, randomly watched it this weekend (all of whom had similar 'I knew it was sad, but I wasn't prepared for this'- type reviews).

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5 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

 

Ah, thanks for this. I was wondering why three of my friends all separately, randomly watched it this weekend (all of whom had similar 'I knew it was sad, but I wasn't prepared for this'- type reviews).

I watched it with my wife this weekend. She had the same reaction and I was like, oh, it’s actually worse than how it’s told in the movie. There’s another son that also meets a tragic end and Fritz was probably a bigger piece of shit than this portrayal. 

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23 hours ago, Log said:

I watched it with my wife this weekend. She had the same reaction and I was like, oh, it’s actually worse than how it’s told in the movie. There’s another son that also meets a tragic end and Fritz was probably a bigger piece of shit than this portrayal. 

I told my lady the same thing. "Fritz got off light."

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I wonder how much that screenplay (or probably the rewrites) was altered by the fact that none of the Von Erichs were really atypical good guys and it's much harder to find a redemptive story. I say that because Jeff Jarrett's podcast on the World Class/Memphis merger paints Kerry and Kevin in a light that doesn't do any of them favors especially as businessmen and professionals. And while the film paints the picture that the family's star transitioned from Kevin to David to Kerry and Kevin was passed over after David's death, Kerry spent a long ass time in Dallas when the territory and town was on its ass. So by the time he took the WWF offer, it was basically a last ditch/only available option that hadn't been explored yet. When you look back at WWF from 89 to about 93 or 94, the people that didn't come over in the first and second waves of ex territory superstars picked off by Vince eventually came over after all the juice had been squeezed out of their home base or either in Puerto Rico, Mexico, or Japan. That's why a Lawler eventually comes over in late 92 even though he still does stuff in Memphis all the way until the territory is officially dead in the early 2000s. So for a guy like Kerry, who still has personal and professional struggles on top of essentially missing a limb, it's hard to paint him in a light other than Fritz is living vicariously through him. In addition, I think people in charge of the film likely struggled with, "Is the movie suppose about the boys or is it about Fritz?". It's extremely difficult to convey certain complexities in 2 hours when the story spans several years. I am guessing there was a chunk of the story that didn't make the final cut.

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If you listen to any of Jerry Jarrett pod appearances before he passed away, you get a bad picture of all of them, including a Fritz telling Jerry how effed up the boys were, both business wise and personal wise. 

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i bought a bag of those fancy gummi bears and long story short I find it necessary to remark on my concerns regarding the current state of lucharesu

I meant to check back up on Dragon Gate after CIMA left (I am inexplicably anti-CIMA) but never got around to it. I know they're always sneaky successful with the non-Tokyo set and the female fanbase but I don't hear any hype these days. MPro has been something else for awhile, Osaka Pro's dead, I think Toryumon Mexico got killed by COVID, there aren't any HUSTLE undercards, the post-DG Ultimo trainees seem scattered to the winds, the crossover NJPW/CMLL stuff reads as an entirely different genre, and CHIKARA didn't fall from grace so much as swan dive. But that's just the thing - if a bunch of noise punks from Eastern PA and their idiot dork dad could slap some masks on and create an approximation of lucharesu that was relevant for years and years + created some very real TV stars, why can't anybody else figure it out? Why can't anybody else even attempt it? Or do I not know where to look?

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Can anyone here verify whether or not Chuck Taylor's in-ring career is shoot-over?  I'll feel bad if it is; I always liked him and he's my Fight Forever world champion.

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1 hour ago, nate said:

Can anyone here verify whether or not Chuck Taylor's in-ring career is shoot-over?  I'll feel bad if it is; I always liked him and he's my Fight Forever world champion.

 

57 minutes ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

My understanding is that it is indeed real. Necrosis in his bones or some shit, it's legit.

Apparently he's been training for a while as an agent/producer.

But come on.  Ankle injury with necrosis?  Kerry Von Erich ain't need no foot!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

My understanding is that it is indeed real. Necrosis in his bones or some shit, it's legit.

Correct.Necrosis of the bone.  He’s got splintered fragments of dead bone beneath the cartilage in his ankle.  According to Dave Meltzer’, the belief right now is that his career is over. Same sort of injury that ended Billy Graham’s career.

Dave did point out that there’s no such thing as never in wrestling and Taylor shares a locker room with several guys who retired due to severe spinal or brain injuries,

On that topic, how is Shibata wrestling again?  I’m out of the loop, but I was under the impression that he probably would never be cleared again.  Guessing that’s why he left NJ?  Did doctors clear him or is AEW just looking the other way?

Edited by The Old-Fashioned Gamer
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36 minutes ago, The Old-Fashioned Gamer said:

Correct.Necrosis of the bone.  He’s got splintered fragments of dead bone beneath the cartilage in his ankle.  According to Dave Meltzer’, the belief right now is that his career is over. Same sort of injury that ended Billy Graham’s career.

Dave did point out that there’s no such thing as never in wrestling and Taylor shares a locker room with several guys who retired due to severe spinal or brain injuries,

On that topic, how is Shibata wrestling again?  I’m out of the loop, but I was under the impression that he probably would never be cleared again.  Guessing that’s why he left NJ?  Did doctors clear him or is ADW just looking the other way?

Given the impossible in-ring returns of Danielson and Copeland, I'm starting to think that career-ending injuries can be very political constructs, or at least until competing companies become a factor. Shibata acclimating himself to the States while Tanahashi ascends to NJPW President of Something or Other? Sounds like miraculous brain medicine to me.

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Posted (edited)

I think its more different and improving medicines/methods as time goes on. Now whether or not a company clears them may just be more of legal/PR worry than anything else or even a trust issue. Like I got the general feeling NJPW just didn't trust Shibata enough, particularly after he changed how his dome match with Narita was supposed to be wrestled. Meanwhile with Danielson it was clearly WWE being afraid something would go wrong and fuck them over PR wise.

Edited by Eivion
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I can’t fault a company for worrying about the possibility of a wrestler dying/being crippled in the ring, and yes, it would be nice if that company also took care of their insurance and injuries, so they could not feel the need to rush back before being fully healthy or as close as you can get as a professional athlete. 
 

we all know wrestlers/athletes are often the worst people to determine if they should not be competing while injured. 

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My impression is that while some of it is medicine just getting better... AEW just seems to be very "eh, go for it" in a way that has given us many good matches but may end in disaster. Sting came back with a wrecked neck that I don't believe he did anything to fix and didn't die. Shibata... I don't watch his matches as I know NJPW looked into it and were scared to death of letting him do anything that wasn't a protected exhibition, meanwhile in AEW he's taking weapon shots to the head now.

 

Basically keep your fingers crossed.

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6 hours ago, The Old-Fashioned Gamer said:

Correct.Necrosis of the bone.  He’s got splintered fragments of dead bone beneath the cartilage in his ankle.  According to Dave Meltzer’, the belief right now is that his career is over. Same sort of injury that ended Billy Graham’s career.

Do we know how much of a surprise this diagnosis was? If the office knew in advance that Taylor's career was near over, the decision to turn Trent heel becomes a lot more understandable.

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9 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Do we know how much of a surprise this diagnosis was? If the office knew in advance that Taylor's career was near over, the decision to turn Trent heel becomes a lot more understandable.

Yeah, I went from pissed off about the breakup, to being thankful we got the blowoff we did. It also explains why BFs opened the show the week prior (or it may have been earlier that night, it's all a blur with the NHL/NBA shuffling lately). YMMV on the placement or effectiveness of that overall, but I thought it was a really nice bone to throw to the OG fans (and dammit, Chuck getting to say 'shit' on Turner before hanging it up beats any lame, done-a-million-times 'moment' in my book).

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Posted (edited)

Thought I'd have a go at Roman Reigns best ever matches having posted the above:

10. Roman Reigns/Seth Rollins vs. Cody Rhodes/Goldust. Battleground 2013.

9. Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes. WrestleMania XXXIX.

8. Roman Reigns vs. Daniel Bryan. Fastlane 2015.

7. Roman Reigns vs. Jey Uso. Clash of Champions 2020.

6. Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles. Extreme Rules 2016.

5. The Shield vs. Team Hell No/Ryback. TLC 2012.

4. Roman Reigns vs. Daniel Bryan. Smackdown, 30th April 2021. *****.

3. Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar. WrestleMania XXXI. *****.

2. Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes. WrestleMania XL. *****.

1. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family. Elimination Chamber 2014. *****. I LOVE this match.

Probably drawing a blank on some while making this list.

Edited by The Natural
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I've been watching some '70s AJPW in the background, and it made me wonder about footage for these two territories:

  • '60s and '70s Amarillo
  • '60s and '70s Australia

I ask because I want to see some of the guys showing up in my All Japan playlist who also worked those territories. Anyone have any good playlists or sources of footage that are easy to access, or did pretty much none of that make it into the modern era to be preserved on YouTube, et al.?

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