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4 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Hot take: Nobody needs a new hobby. All are welcome to consume in the manner they find most satisfactory.

You've changed your tune.

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8 minutes ago, AxB said:

You've changed your tune.

If you’d like me to apply my beliefs more consistently, I’m happy to have that discussion. Feel free to direct me to anything that strikes your eyes wrong. 

Not that I expect you’ll want to get bogged down in such foolishness.

edit: and for fuck sake, give us back the confused reaction 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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To recap: I suggested that arguably for some people, hate watching something (in order to crap on it later) can be a legitimately enjoyable pastime.

Then you spent two hours searching old posts to find instances of me metaphorically crapping on things I'd watched and didn't enjoy, and then posted a bunch of them as if that somehow proved I was being a hypocrite.

And now you're saying that actually you agreed with my assertion in the first place.

Confused emoji.

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On 4/11/2021 at 9:37 AM, AxB said:

Steroids and Coke (and depression) killed those WWF/ WCW guys though, not bumping. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Addiction to painkillers from bumping

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In some cases, sure. But, like, why was Miss Elizabeth addicted to painkillers? She ain't take bumps.

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Moves are the diction of wrestling and selling is the syntax. Moves can be choosing not to do something and selling can be reacting emotionally to what's happening. It can be selling the crowd booing you.

What you do is the diction, how you react is the syntax.

You put them together and get meaning.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

In some cases, sure. But, like, why was Miss Elizabeth addicted to painkillers? She ain't take bumps.

The one bump she took during Twin Towers vs Mega Powers Saturday Night's Main Event must really have been an all-time motherfucker!

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2 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

The one bump she took during Twin Towers vs Mega Powers Saturday Night's Main Event must really have been an all-time motherfucker!

to hear Hogan tell it, anyway

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30 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

to hear Hogan tell it, anyway

Well, she bought it, unfortunately! And the way Hogan sold it (when he was told the cameras were rolling) it was like she had fallen off one of the actual Twin Towers! Maybe she WAS convinced she needed to self medicate for more than a decade after the fact?

Edited by Shartnado
Expanding on the issue...
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9 hours ago, Shartnado said:

Well, she bought it, unfortunately! And the way Hogan sold it (when he was told the cameras were rolling) it was like she had fallen off one of the actual Twin Towers! Maybe she WAS convinced she needed to self medicate for more than a decade after the fact?

Hulk Hogan had jealous eyes for Miss Elizabeth the entire time, and took the opportunity to get the girl and get rid of the Macho Man at the same time...and some of y'all cheered him for it.  Couldn't be me.

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14 hours ago, AxB said:

To recap: I suggested that arguably for some people, hate watching something (in order to crap on it later) can be a legitimately enjoyable pastime.

Then you spent two hours searching old posts to find instances of me metaphorically crapping on things I'd watched and didn't enjoy, and then posted a bunch of them as if that somehow proved I was being a hypocrite.

And now you're saying that actually you agreed with my assertion in the first place.

Confused emoji.

I went and reread the incident in question. Here's a post of yours I mistook as glib sarcastic bullshitting (which was certainly preceded by plenty of such from you (double parentheses: and me, and others)) and talking down to people rather than a sincerely held belief:

Quote

I suppose it's possible that, in terms of everyone enjoying things their own way, to some people the most pleasure they get might be from nitpicking and talking stuff down.

I took it as the former and responded to it as such. The conversation, such as it was, went on to the point where I admitted I'd misinterpreted your point.

Quote

Ah, so you weren't talking people down for doing such. My genuine mistake. You obviously enjoy partaking in similar behaviour, making it clear you find common ground with the nitpickers and talkers down of stuff. Thank you for finally setting me straight. I wildly misinterpreted the spirit of your brief earlier posts, clearly. I apologize.

My tune hasn't changed at all. Confused emoji accepted. And once again, apologies for the confusion. My genuine mistake. 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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If you live with addicts, or hang around them, then it is REALLY hard not to eventually succumb to the live style. You either get high or get gone.

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Here’s one that will sound like the same old crap, only until I explain further I hope. At Superbrawl 91 they should have had Scott pin Luger then Luger pin Scott in the singles match/rematch. That has been repeated by everybody ever since the wrestling forums were a thing. I won’t pretend it was my idea (something people have also repeated for years after they read it and thought it sounded good lol) but anyway that was just perfect. 

Now here’s the hot take. The tag team match should have been the Superbrawl main event. That match was an impossible dream match at the time. The adults wanted to see it and the children just wanted to comprehend it. Neither had seen anything like it except for the rare fans who watched both WCW and WWF and had saw Hogan/Warrior a year ago. Hogan/Warrior went on to overshadow it because it was turned to shit in the last minute of the match like every big match WCW ever promoted but it was that big and has remained that much of a favorite by the smarks and the people who grew up and rewatched all this stuff.

Then when it was over there were so many easy ways to wrap it up and keep right on with the whole Sting/Luger/Steiners friendship story arch. You had the Hardliners messing with the Steiners which was how they originally reestablished the friendship if you remember. Flair could have been a part of it somehow, and it would have been better than that dumb stuff with Fujinami at the time. The NJPW connection could have still been utilized though. Sting was feuding with Muta over there and we all remember what the Steiners were doing over there at the time. So many possibilities.

 

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So that was the hot take. Down to the warm details I would have liked to have seen this. Scott pins Luger during the main event and the show goes off the air as Luger gets up furious, but not violent towards the Steiners. Sting and Ric are down exhausted and Scott is exhausted but still celebrating typical exhausted baby face style. Then as soon as the first TV show hits they announce that the match has been signed for Clash XV. Promote the heck out of it nonstop with Luger and Scott flexing their heel tendencies towards 1 another but never busting lose with them as Sting and Ric hang around but don’t interfere, occasionally commenting on backing their partner, gloves are off in the ring etc type talk. Then 2 weeks before Clash XV Sting and Ric can’t be polite anymore and start fighting on TV, which leads to Scott and Luger to break them up, while the announcers go omg they’ve been trying to keep Luger and Scott from killing each other now Luger and Scott are trying to keep them from killing each other etc etc etc and Luger and Scott manage to break them up and get them to the back.

Next week they say Sting/Ric is signed. Have whoever they want Sting to feud with next attack both of them 10 minutes in. Go ahead and make it Nikita like had at Superbrawl, after Luger had beat him clean in a WCWSN main event or Omni show, ending that feud. Nikita’s justification next week on TV could be about the same as it was at Superbrawl, that he was just trying to ruin the party because he was mad lol! But anyway Luger and Scott make the save. Sting and Ric chase Nikita to the back which leaves Scott and Luger in the ring. The bell just rings and they start whaling on each other, and the match is on after this commercial break lol!

This could have flew at GAB 91 also IMO. That’s changing alot of history I realize but it’s just a dream lol!

Edited by BloodyChamp
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Again A.M.B., good topic. I have accumulated a few HTs. Here:

- The best HHH was the star-turn HHH of Blade: Trinity.

- Street Shaman Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant's feud(s) of endless foreign monsters and turncoat friends courtesy of Gary Hart & Paul Jones' Army is one of the best feuds ever.

- There are more good workers than ever before, but fewer great ones, and too many overrated (especially on the interWeb) ones.

- Enzo Amore was the best talker of any NXT talent, and could have been huge under different circumstances, and if he wasn't such a trash human.

- Wrestlers should look, act and carry themselves like wrestlers (excepting some exceptional exceptions, of course) , i.e., intimidating, large, bigger than life, unusual, un-markish. Greg Gagne used to get shit on, and he comes off like Mike Tyson compared to some of the nerds playing pretend these days.

I got some other even more cranky crotchety salty senioritis ones a-brewing, so maybe more later.

- RAF

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On 4/13/2021 at 7:04 PM, John from Cincinnati said:

I realize his current position is much better for him financially, but I selfishly wish Bobby Roode were splitting his time between the NWA and Impact right now. I don't think he's a lot of people's #1 guy they wish weren't locked up in the WWE, but he's my #1. 

@Brian Fowler will be with you, I'm sure. Roode's long reign as TNA Heavyweight Champion was a favourite of mine, he had great music and entrance to go with:

Fuck the lyrics version.

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in much the same way that all audiobooks should be read by British guys, all wrestling should be commentated by people with a southern accent.

Edited by bazzil
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1 hour ago, twiztor said:

Ric Flair has been terrible since the mid 90s.

This reminds me of something I posted under a lost username years and years ago that I suppose qualifies for this thread and reinforces your take. Though I think at least a few others agreed with me at the time, so maybe it actually isn't that "hot." You can all be the judge.

Ric Flair is basically Al Pacino. Same career arc. Did their best work in the first couple of decades of their careers, both considered at the pinnacle of their respective crafts. Once we get in to the 90s, both start chewing scenery, parodying themselves, and do more or less the same thing every time out regardless of what the situation actually calls for. Once we get well in to the 2000s, well...less said the better, for the most part. (I suppose the counter-argument is Flair doing that RAW TLC match with Edge and going the hardcore route with Foley in the early/mid-2000s, both of which were novel for him, and which, frankly, I enjoyed.)

So: your tolerance for Flair from the 90s onwards probably depends on how much you can tolerate Al Pacino from...say...'95 or '96 onwards (If you want to go back to "Scent of a Woman" for the start of Pacino playing "Al Pacino having a 20-course scenery tasting menu" every film, I won't argue with you despite being a fan).

 

Edited by Teflon Turtle
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8 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

 

- Street Shaman Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant's feud(s) of endless foreign monsters and turncoat friends courtesy of Gary Hart & Paul Jones' Army is one of the best feuds ever.

 

I wholeheartedly co-sign this 👏🏾👏🏾

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7 hours ago, Infinit said:
16 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

 

- Street Shaman Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant's feud(s) of endless foreign monsters and turncoat friends courtesy of Gary Hart & Paul Jones' Army is one of the best feuds ever.

 

I wholeheartedly co-sign this 👏🏾👏🏾

My street people and my old lady agree!

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My hottest hot take possible is that Wrestling is Dead. In the same sense God is Dead. It doesn't mean that what is now called pro wrestling can't be a good and enjoyable product. It doesn't mean matches can't be good. But it's an entirely different medium than it once was. Apples and oranges.

Cable TV and PPV changed it considerably. The death of the territories changed it considerably. The Monday Night Wars changed it considerably. The death of WCW changed it considerably.

What killed it though, what can never be come back from, is the shift from fans 1) wanting to see the babyfaces wrestle the heels and the heels get their comeuppance to 2) wanting to see the company push the wrestlers that they wanted to win to 3) wanting to see great matches/memories/etc for the sake of them.

That's not necessarily about kayfabe though the relaxing of it was either a symptom or a driving force. It's not about fans BELIEVING so much as it's about them no longer letting themselves suspend their disbelief. That's what doesn't really happen anymore. It means that the incentives for wrestlers and wrestling companies to perform in a certain way are completely different than they once were. It's no longer about utilizing heat to get people to pay moment because real emotions are being stoked (and that could be watching a morality play or seeing that there's some justice in the world or just having a socially acceptable excuse to hate someone). It's about witnessing something special or spectacular instead, about having the bragging rights that you were in the crowd for it. Even when heat is utilized now, it's much more performative and winking. It's less genuine and just having the crowd be more of a part of the act. The crowd (still a mob of its own) gets to drive things more now instead of being led by the wrestlers. The incentives are completely different and therefore it's a entirely different medium.

The genie is out of the bottle and the nature of the audience, the methods used to perform for them, and the very purpose of pro wrestling matches and angles themselves, are now transformed into something unrecognizable relative to thirty+ years ago.

It can still be exciting or entertaining when done well, but it's no longer Wrestling.

Edited by Matt D
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