AEW - AUGUST 2023

[tbarrie]

9 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Fucking good wrestling is good fucking wrestling! I saw the Women's Survivor Series match from '87 and told my classmates that Men's wrestling is some boring stiff-ass shit, and got laughed out of the class! But yeah, it sucks when that happens. Being (basically) the only wrestling fan in Finland less than a year later sucked even more

Wait, how did you wind up the only wrestling fan in the country a year later? Did you murder the classmates who laughed at you?

Not judging, just curious.

[odessasteps]

And were things better or worse when Tony Halme joined the WWF? 

[Dolphman 3000]

15 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder what kind of demographic information Prazak has for the Shimmer fanbase: men/women, age range, etc. 

Shimmer is how I figured out that you couldn't find reliable reviews of women's wrestling online because it's the same 40 neckbeards rating matches depending on whether or not the performers are attractive

Their idea of a "5 star match" is drastically different from whatever you're thinking

[odessasteps]

That's why I'd be curious to see if his data mirrored the perceived majority fanbase of the promotion. 

Are/were there many women ordering the DVDs or merch, but not going to house shows, because of the stereotype of thatfan base and not wanting to deal with them in person? 

Similar to the perception of comic shops and women in the recent past not wanting to patronize "androids dungeon" type of stores. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by odessasteps

[zendragon]

45 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

Any time I see a women's match referred to as a "girls match" or a "ladies match" it's an immediate dogwhistle that this person miiiiiight not want to see women on their rasslin' program.

Or hasn’t watch current wresting decades

[zendragon]

20 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

And were things better or worse when Tony Halme joined the WWF? 

I’m guessing Tony Halme getting beat by Randy Couture killed the Territory

[StevieNippz]

I've said it before and still think it's worth a shot to make Rampage a show for the women. Have frequent TBS title defenses and get some story development and feuds going. The women's division should still be featured on Dynamite and Collision but ever since Dark/Elevation ended the lack of women's wrestling has really stood out. Nyla/Marina/Taya had a trios match against some jobbers at this week's show and the crowd was going wild so it's apparent there is an audience for it.

 

Edit: Forgot to add more updates on the Tampa show. Big Bill and Brian Cage teamed and got one of the loudest pops all night, the crowd loved Bill! MJF was so over with everyone, I hope they don't blow this with him turning heel. It was unclear when commercials were going on, the show was just nonstop. My free tickets ended up being last row in the rafters but it was still an amazing view. Once I saw how packed that building was I totally understood why they weren't front row here. I imagine they'll be coming to Tampa again sooner rather than later, the crowd was a hundred times hotter than the Ft Myers show last year. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by StevieNippz
More Dynamite 200 thoughts

[Matt D]

I wish we’d at least get fancams of those dark matches. 

[Casey]

Well at least LuFisto has united the women’s locker room, so good for her. Britt, Taya, Tay, Nyla, Renee, Madison Rayne and even Ruby have tweeted about all of this in the past few hours. Even MJF came to their defense.

Shit is wild.

[Dog]

I don't know anything about SHIMMER, but Wrestlenomics says the viewership for the current incarnation of WOW is actually overwhelmingly female. Like, 70% or something. That shocked me.

[John E. Dynamite]

If one-tenth of your audience are lapsed fans who are conditioned to change the channel the second a women's match happens (part of a larger group of people called fuckhead idiot misogynists), then the women's matches are always going to be your worst number/biggest audience loser. And if you're booking for the network, booking around the numbers, then I have no idea what the right answer is. One of the reasons it's hard to complain about this is because nobody knows if the one-match-per-show policy is a network order or if it's TK doing it because he thinks that's what the network wants. I'm usually pretty understanding of business decisions not always mirroring the exact booking fans want, but this has been correctly identified as a self fulfilling prophecy by any good-faith viewer.

Looking at factors outside of the failure of the human spirit, there's the fact that giving Kenny the book and trying to build around Joshi guest stars was probably the wrong idea initially and definitely the wrong idea during COVID. Then there's the fact that WWE held on to a relatively higher number of women when they were doing their pandemic roster cuts (this was also true of talent of color during the first round of cuts, and I do believe it was intentional). What really had me concerned is when Masha Slamovich and KiLynn King wound up in IMPACT. When Mia Yim didn't jump ship, when they failed to poach Deonna Purrazzo. Anybody serious about their women's division would have made an attempt. Whatever. The short term answer is four televised women's matches a week instead of three. Doesn't seem like that much of an ask.

And don't forget they have a very special talent right now, sitting behind a very special piece of glass that says "BREAK IN CASE ATHENA ISN'T ON TV EVERY FUCKIN WEEK". Wonder when they'll break it.

[Dolphman 3000]

9 minutes ago, Dog said:

I don't know anything about SHIMMER, but Wrestlenomics says the viewership for the current incarnation of WOW is actually overwhelmingly female. Like, 70% or something. That shocked me.

I think the GLOW series on Netflix created an audience for campy wrestling

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

12 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

If one-tenth of your audience are lapsed fans who are conditioned to change the channel the second a women's match happens (part of a larger group of people called fuckhead idiot misogynists), then the women's matches are always going to be your worst number/biggest audience loser. And if you're booking for the network, booking around the numbers, then I have no idea what the right answer is. One of the reasons it's hard to complain about this is because nobody knows if the one-match-per-show policy is a network order or if it's TK doing it because he thinks that's what the network wants. I'm usually pretty understanding of business decisions not always mirroring the exact booking fans want, but this has been correctly identified as a self fulfilling prophecy by any good-faith viewer.

Oh, I'll complain either way because no matter who's making the decision, it's still phenomenally disappointing to be seen as a lesser-than.

Just anecdotal, but the reason why a lot of women wrestlers cite Divas era WWE women as their inspiration to become wrestlers isn't because they think Divas era WWE talent are great wrestlers or anything, it's because they were on the show and visible. Visibility means a ton, and if you've conditioned people to believe that a match is a bathroom break and not a special attraction, as AEW often does by making the women's match the second-to-last match on most of their shows (no matter whether it's Tony Khan or the network hosting the show making that mandate), it's just disappointing.

It's also disappointing when AEW pulls this sleight-of-hand trick where they get criticized heavily, like they did with that sign saying "book the women's division better" going viral, then the next week putting Shida/Storm on last so they can go SEE?! SEE!!! WOMEN MAIN EVENT TOOOOOOO, because they pull that crap too, and usually the response is "well, they let the women main event and it didn't work, oh well, what can you do, these men just don't want to see women".

[zendragon]

The short term answer 4 women’s matches instead of three a week. The long term answer recondition those same fans. For years WWE used the tag straps as a plot device for the main singles feuds. Bob Holly talked about how he really didn’t make anymore money as tag champion, AEW had made tag wrestling a cornerstone by having FTR main event PPVs (I’m counting ROH) and go two out of three for an hour. Do the same for women’s wrestling.

I was honestly surprised the women got the main this week ( and even then it was kinda a quickie main event by AEW standards)

[Curt McGirt]

Some people may think giving women their own show is a bone thrown or some kind of a plus or whatever, but it can also be viewed as divisionary shit that puts them in their own little ghetto away from the "head" talent. It sounds like a giant step backward to me. Instead, give them more matches, more time, more mains. 

[Jamal]

I'm not going to argue whether it happened or not because a person's perception is their reality. But the locker room is doing themselves no favors by dogpiling on, especially the particularly nasty posts. Crazy to see wrestlers one step away from the Indies themselves attacking someone still making her living on them. 

While I've always championed the AEW women's division and think it has come a long way, there are still some issues to be ironed out, like having actual storylines and giving the women some more screentime. Doesn't always have to be a match. Crazy that Impact has less television time a week but does a better job of making their woman matter. 

[odessasteps]

I wonder what would have actually happened if they had indeed made Smackdown “the  women’s show” back in the late 90s. 

[Casey]

21 minutes ago, Jamal said:

I'm not going to argue whether it happened or not because a person's perception is their reality. But the locker room is doing themselves no favors by dogpiling on, especially the particularly nasty posts. Crazy to see wrestlers one step away from the Indies themselves attacking someone still making her living on them. 

While I've always championed the AEW women's division and think it has come a long way, there are still some issues to be ironed out, like having actual storylines and giving the women some more screentime. Doesn't always have to be a match. Crazy that Impact has less television time a week but does a better job of making their woman matter. 

What tweets from members of the locker room were nasty? Every one I’ve seen have been pretty professional (well, as pro as it gets for wrestling anyway). Genuinely curious. The locker room has a right to defend themselves when someone makes this much noise online about one visit, IMO.

[Elsalvajeloco]

8 minutes ago, Jamal said:

I'm not going to argue whether it happened or not because a person's perception is their reality. But the locker room is doing themselves no favors by dogpiling on, especially the particularly nasty posts. Crazy to see wrestlers one step away from the Indies themselves attacking someone still making her living on them. 

While I've always championed the AEW women's division and think it has come a long way, there are still some issues to be ironed out, like having actual storylines and giving the women some more screentime. Doesn't always have to be a match. Crazy that Impact has less television time a week but does a better job of making their woman matter. 

I think that goes hand and hand though. The less resources you have to devote to everything else means more time to have a singular focus on something else. Look at Joshi, for example. Despite Stardom probably being the most popular, other, smaller, and more niche promotions have probably had a better and more consistent success in booking their talent overall. Also, even though they've had several regime changes since then, Impact has had a track record of being more innovative with their female talent than other promotions years before AEW was even an idea. So they always had that going for them even in the leanest of times. It still takes acumen and skill to get it done so don't get me wrong. However, AEW at this point is going in an entirely different direction in terms of what they want their business to be. We're talking several big money contracts and using that talent to eventually secure a big TV money contract. They have to make the ends justify the means. It doesn't mean forget to feature female talents, however, it's entirely different kettle of fish.

That said, personally, I think whatever improvement is going to come from a variety of solutions. Damn near everyone here has provided something so you know talent backstage are trying to provide those solutions. The question is and probably has been will they be heard? Anytime, you're trying to serve numerous masters, you're going to come up short somewhere. I feel that we shouldn't dismiss that they are being featured in some ways whether you feel it's disingenuous or not. ANYTIME you get a chance to knock out of the park, go for that shit. For example, to have TWO beautiful black women of different complexions (cause god knows I haven't enough about dark skin vs. light skin growing up) and body shapes/sizes like Athena and Willow kill it on PPV and in the main event or damn near close to the main event, you cannot go wrong. They got their shot, and they did the damn thing. I am all for that. GIVE ME MORE! I am also for Shida winning the title to bookend a major AEW TV episode. I don't give a damn if it didn't get the most time. The more you make of those opportunities, the less they can deny you. If we have stubborn folks in power (either in suits or in the C level suites), success has ALWAYS been the greatest equalizer.

[elizium]

I don't have too much to add other than I think LuFisto rules and I think Ruby Soho rules and I want more women's wrestling when I watch AEW.

I have no problem with the AEW women defending the locker room, but MJF's tweet rubbed me the wrong way. It is bad enough when "fans" shit on a wrestler for supposedly not making it, but its fucking stupid when an actual wrestler does it. It shits on 99% of the  wrestlers in history and presents this idea that unless you worked for one of WWE, WCW, or AEW your career was nothing. Getting signed is as much about being in the right place at the right time and getting in with the right people, as it is with talent. The wrestling world is fucking huge and there's so many ways for people to have a career, especially now. Lots of great wrestler went their entire career not getting signed, lots of shitty ones worked years and years in major companies.

You're mad at her and want to defend your company? Sure, great. But don't pull out that fucking internet troll-ass indy nothing insult.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

8 hours ago, The Natural said:

Thank you. I enjoy conversing with you too. Truly.

Two things made my entire day today. One was this comment. The other I want to preface with a question for you. Have you ever had the privilege of meeting Bryan Danielson? If you haven’t I’ll keep my fingers crossed that he one day does a signing near you, because today I had the equivalent of that happen for me.

My mom and I were supposed to attend this local event they have yearly here. Well the weather forecast looked so bad yesterday that they cancelled todays events and moved the two concerts they were supposed to have to our local arena and the autograph signing to the arena too. We had VIP tickets so the autograph signing was free, and she knew I didn’t want to miss that for the world. So we ended up standing outside in the rain for about forty five minutes then we waited inside for about the same length so I could meet Kurt Angle. I’m not going to lie or say that someone that takes issue with me a lot is wrong. I truly was a mark when we met Kurt. I had this beautiful 11x14 print that Rob Schamberger had done that I wanted Kurt to sign for me. Instead of playing it cool, and telling him I’d attended three shows where he won world titles (including his first WWF title win over The Rock) I just blurted out how to spell my name as there’s three different ways it could be spelled. Then he asked if I’d like the print personalized so I said yes please Mr. Angle, so he starts writing my name then he inscribes “It’s True!”, his signature, and WWE HOF 2017 He was so careful not to cover any of the print too, and was super nice when my mom asked if he’d take a photo with me. I of course thanked him repeatedly then left smiling like a fool for the next hour or so. 

So if anyone ever says don’t meet your heroes remember that’s not remotely true. Three of my best life experiences have been meeting Kurt, meeting Jeff Jarrett (and having a long sports talk with him at a TNA show years ago), and meeting AJ Styles and getting to joke around with AJ both the first and second time I met him (as he somehow remembered me the second time, and told me he still wanted a damn step ladder to take a photo together as he’s maybe 5’10, and I’m 6’4 and a half). Tomorrow I’ll meet Matt Cardona so I’m hopeful that gets added to my list.

[Elsalvajeloco]

25 minutes ago, elizium said:

. But don't pull out that fucking internet troll-ass indy nothing insult.

Thing is if you decide to do your work out in the public, then the response is going to be out in public. People respond to what they believe is venom with venom. That's human nature. And the default that's been in wrestling is you didn't do jack shit in the business. That one has been used for several decades. People just phrase it differently. So you send it out into the world, expect a reply back. It might not be one you like.

Even if she has a point, LuFisto broke a cardinal pro wrestling rule especially as an outsider. Would I condone ethering her out in public? No, cause MJF probably has better shit to do. However, he had time today or whenever he wrote that. I expected that to happen. It just happened to be MJF was the person. I have NEVER seen something like this happen and 100% of the outcome are well thought out, rational responses. 

[TheVileOne]

Well, that's unfortunate, along with the lack of actual lineups for All In and All Out.

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1687552226368057346

[Octopus]

5 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Well, that's unfortunate, along with the lack of actual lineups for All In and All Out.

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1687552226368057346

Aiming to go to a movie theater for them. Did that with Forbidden Door and really enjoyed it. Saved a lot of money too. 

[TheVileOne]

4 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Aiming to go to a movie theater for them. Did that with Forbidden Door and really enjoyed it. Saved a lot of money too. 

I've really enjoyed watching the events at a theater, and I plan to watch them this way.