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June 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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I have not seen too much of the Pre Hogan era stuff. I think there is lots of memorable good stuff during Hogan's first reign, which is a four-year-period within that seven year era. Thinking it through, this is probably the best ratio. It's probably my favourite era where almost every featured guy felt like a star. 

1997 is my favourite WWF year ever, 1994 has a good main event run for Bret between Wrestlemania and Survivor Series. 1993, 1995 and 1996 are mostly terrible overall years, despite the occasional good or even great stuff. 

2000 and 2001 until Wrestlemania had many good PPVs, but I really never liked the overall direction of the WWF. Yet those were mostly exciting times with probably WWF's biggest draws on top with Rock and Austin. 

2002 to 2007 was mostly dull to me and a downer after the excitement, although it often had. My memory says that the wrestling was more solid during that time than during most of the Attitude era, but again...I could never really get behind the direction the company was headed in. 

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My family got cable in 97 so I could watch regularly. which also happened to coincide with The Austin Era. I know a lot of that attitude era stuff has not aged well but watching Austin v McMahon before it got tired is my fondest memory. I think most people will look back at their childhood era that they got into wrestling with rose colored glasses

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Watching Nick Wayne Vs Osprey.  What's the general consensus on Nick Wayne? For someone so young I think he has light years of potential. Would rather see him stick it out on the indy's for a bit than TV but someone had to snatch him and I'm kind of glad it was AEW first.

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I was cognizant of WWF and JCP early, as in watching wrestling was among my earliest memories. Heck, I remember watching late-stage AWA as a very young child and having four AWA figures (which I've mentioned here before). 

For me, the sweet spot for WWF is about 1988 through 1993. To me, that is the best period. You had some of the enduring wrestlers (Hogan, Savage) mixed in with compelling newcomers (Warrior, Undertaker, Razor), and I got to see dudes I rooted for as undersized tag wrestlers make their way slowly up the card (HitG.O.A.T., Michaels). 

I also will swear to you that a bunch of the angles during this period were legendary, even the Wrestlecrap ones (like Papa Shango making Warrior ooze black blood - that was GREAT and I won't stand for slander against it). Taker locking Warrior in the casket, Jake locking Taker in the casket and then Taker chasing him while dragging it, that whole wild Jake/Savage feud, The Mountie losing a jailhouse match, the Owen Hart heel turn...yeah, all of that is my jam. 

I feel like my WWF fandom actually peaks with the 1993 King of the Ring in some ways. I've highly enjoyed stuff past that from the company (like a whole lot of 1997 or 2014 to early-2016 NXT), but that KOTR is still one of my favorite big shows ever and in retrospect has a load of stuff that a fan who started watching when I did would love (Michaels retains the IC title, Hit.G.O.A.T. wins KotR, Hogan loses, the Steiners win a match on the show). Savage and Heenan are on commentary together as well. The only thing the show was missing was Monsoon as PBP instead of Ross (I like '90s Ross, but Monsoon was of course the voice of WWF to me). That KOTR is a love letter to me and my fandom of WWF/E. It never got quite that good again after that show. 

 

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If we're limiting it to the WWF/E, my I'd go 97-02. I was a huge Steve Austin fan when he was in WCW so watching him morph into Stone Cold and ascend to the main event was awesome for me. Plus I was in college at the time so I was squarely in the wheel house of what they were selling during the Attitude Era and being a part of that zeitgeist.

Overall though, my favorite time in wrestling was 85-89, JCP/WCW. That's how I got introduced to wrestling and what I grew up on. Stuff like the Horsemen breaking Dusty's arm in the parking lot, the Garvins tricking Flair with Ms. Atlanta Lively, the Powers of Pain dropping a weight on Animal's eye, etc were what my friends and I talked about every Monday at school from 2nd-5th grade as our CBS affiliate showed the NWA at 12pm and 11pm every Saturday.

 

Edited by cwoy2j
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32 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

If we're limiting it to the WWF/E, my I'd go 97-02. I was a huge Steve Austin fan when he was in WCW so watching him morph into Stone Cold and ascend to the main event was awesome for me. Plus I was in college at the time so I was squarely in the wheel house of what they were selling during the Attitude Era and being a part of that zeitgeist.

Overall though, my favorite time in wrestling was 85-89, JCP/WCW. That's how I got introduced to wrestling and what I grew up on. Stuff like the Horsemen breaking Dusty's arm in the parking lot, the Garvins tricking Flair with Ms. Atlanta Lively, the Powers of Pain dropping a weight on Animal's eye, etc were what my friends and I talked about every Monday at school from 2nd-5th grade as our CBS affiliate showed the NWA at 12pm and 11pm every Saturday.

 

My grandparents were early adopters of cable, so I saw a lot of this with my grandma, and i think it informs my pro wrestling fandom more than anything else.

I didn't really delineate much between the house styles or anything like that, so I liked both JCP and WWF at the time, but the JCP stuff is really what I like the most about pro wrestling, and that was set in stone when I was in pre-school watching that stuff at grandma's house, probably. 

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Recently released for free on the tubes:

Takeshita's match with Moriarty a couple days ago is meant to be amazing too, looking forward to seeing that and his Garcia match coming up soon.

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2 hours ago, Pedro said:

Watching Nick Wayne Vs Osprey.  What's the general consensus on Nick Wayne? For someone so young I think he has light years of potential. Would rather see him stick it out on the indy's for a bit than TV but someone had to snatch him and I'm kind of glad it was AEW first.

He's very young but already regularly putting on great matches. I could see him really break out in the next couple of years. 

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2 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I feel like my WWF fandom actually peaks with the 1993 King of the Ring in some ways.

Made that part of my recent rewatch.  Bret vs.  Razor/Perfect/Bam Bam.  Always an absolute TREAT... 

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25 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Made that part of my recent rewatch.  Bret vs.  Razor/Perfect/Bam Bam.  Always an absolute TREAT... 

The wrestling was amazing that night - but those of us in the building were completely floored by Yoko winning the title back from Hogan and Lawler's attack on Bret at the end of the night. It was like ... who is putting the HEELS over like this?

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4 minutes ago, Gorman said:

The wrestling was amazing that night - but those of us in the building were completely floored by Yoko winning the title back from Hogan and Lawler's attack on Bret at the end of the night. It was like ... who is putting the HEELS over like this?

You were there at the Nutter Center, in the breadbasket of America?!

Lucky.

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7 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

You were there at the Nutter Center, in the breadbasket of America?!

Lucky.

Worth the three-hour drive to Dayton. My buddy and I were making our picks on the way to the show, and the only thing we knew for sure was that Hogan was going to beat Yokozuna.

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Looking back my enjoyment of WW(W)F went downhill when Lou Albano turned babyface. The two high points after that were Hogan leaving and Foley becoming champeen.

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2 hours ago, Leonidas said:

Recently released for free on the tubes:

Takeshita's match with Moriarty a couple days ago is meant to be amazing too, looking forward to seeing that and his Garcia match coming up soon.

there's seriously a wrestler out there using the name Speedball?

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3 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

there's seriously a wrestler out there using the name Speedball?

For whatever reason, I only ever thought this was a reference to the late 80's/ very early 90's computer game about a violent spectator sport and nothing else.

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1 minute ago, Shartnado said:

For whatever reason, I only ever thought this was a reference to the late 80's/ very early 90's computer game about a violent spectator sport and nothing else.

I hope he calls his finisher "Angel Dust".

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14 hours ago, Pedro said:

Watching Nick Wayne Vs Osprey.  What's the general consensus on Nick Wayne? For someone so young I think he has light years of potential. Would rather see him stick it out on the indy's for a bit than TV but someone had to snatch him and I'm kind of glad it was AEW first.

He’s a helluva talent. That was a terrific match, the kind Ospreay delivers time after time with whoever he’s in the ring with. 
If they could get Wayne into Dragon Gate for a year he would benefit immeasurably. But with his youth he’s a licence to print merch money. They could totally do a 123 kid thing all over again with him.

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Re: Nick Wayne

He’s clearly an incredible talent to be capable of having these kinds of high level matches at such a young age, but part of me also thinks the Indies are doing his career a huge disservice by putting him in these kinds of matches at such a young age. He’s going to be totally used up by the time he’s 21.

Like, I think I first started paying attention to him around the Janela DEFY match…which went 30 minutes and Wayne went over. Why would I ever need to see that match again? These veteran wrestlers are leaving him nowhere to grow. I’m 100% certain it’s not malicious in any way, but I can’t help but feel these vets are vampiring his youth. By the time he’s in his 20’s and ready to have a real career, he’s going to be just another Johnny Kickpads. No more stories left to tell.

Which is too bad, because the early parts of some of these matches, when he’s just selling getting his ass kicked by the vets and making comebacks, are actually pretty strong. He’s good at it! He could be making a name for himself doing that without the extra 15 minutes of 2.9 counts, etc. at the end.

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Here's some old wrestling I watched over the weekend (it wasn't much!) as I continue my 80s/maybe 90s WWF nostalgia tour.  I left off on The Big Event.

The Rougeaus vs The Dream Team: Valentine had the same color trunks as the Rougeaus (dark red), which was weird.  By the numbers, fine match.  There's a funny spot where Valentine goes to break up a pin and the ref straight up elbows him in the face during the count.  Cool finish as Valentine goes for the figure four on one Rougeau but, as he's bending to pick up the straight leg, the other Rougeau sunset flips him.  I'm pro cool sunset flips when the heel's not expecting it.  Monsoon rightfully calls out that the illegal Rougeau made the pin and Johnny Valiant, on commentary, is pissed.  BTW this ref sucked.  He'd carefully drop to his hands and knees, almost as bad as Bronco Lubich, slide his hand under the pinned wrestler's shoulder blade to make ABSOLUTELY SURE it was down, then count ONE, then slide his hand under the pinned wrestler's shoulder blade AGAIN TO FUCKING MAKE SURE IT WAS STILL DOWN, etc.  Dude, don't count pins like its a shoot.  Really ruined the flow.

Harley Race vs Pedro Morales: Race was already 43 here but he was like Arn Anderson, one of those guys who was perpetually 55.  He must have just started his King gimmick as he's announced with two nicknames as "The King of Wrestling, Handsome Harley Race."  That's a bit much.  Nothing match as Race cribs the Macho Man finish from both The Wrestling Classic AND Mania 2, double legging Pedro in the corner and using the ropes for leverage, in a very short match.

Hogan vs Orndorff: formula match, entertaining if you were into Hogan's shtick, which the very hot crowd definitely was.  Really lame DQ as Hogan hits Orndorff with a running, jumping knee to the back, which causes Orndorff to run into the ref, who then DQs ORNDORFF when he comes to.  Ugh.  Again, it's the curse of the early WWF big events where programs were prolonged forever to keep house show business going.  Did they ever run a series of Hogan/Orndorff blowoffs?  I know they came back to Toronto after this with Hogan/PIper vs Orndorff/Orton.  Maybe the blowoffs came before the SNME cage match?  Historyofwwf.com is a viagra site now, so I can't check.

Savage and Piper were notably missing from this show and I'd love to know what the lineup for the B town was on this night.  I'd also love to know how pissed they were for not getting a piece of this gate.

I started Mania 3 but didn't get far into the first match.  It was wild watching Aretha sing America the Beautiful while 75% of the shots in the montage are inexplicably downtown Baltimore.  Weird.

Edited by Technico Support
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12 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Harley Race vs Pedro Morales: Race was already 43 here but he was like Arn Anderson, one of those guy who was perpetually 55.  He must have just started his King gimmick as he's announced with two nicknames as "The King of Wrestling, Handsome Harley Race."  That's a bit much.  Nothing match as Race cribs the Macho Man finish from both The Wrestling Classic AND Mania 2, double legging Pedro in the corner and using the ropes for leverage, in a very short match.

 

That would have been a great match in the late 1970s.

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20 minutes ago, JLowe said:

That would have been a great match in the late 1970s.

Get out of my brain!  I was thinking the same thing but forgot to write it as I was distracted thinking about that ref's shitty count style.

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17 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

My grandparents were early adopters of cable, so I saw a lot of this with my grandma, and i think it informs my pro wrestling fandom more than anything else.

I didn't really delineate much between the house styles or anything like that, so I liked both JCP and WWF at the time, but the JCP stuff is really what I like the most about pro wrestling, and that was set in stone when I was in pre-school watching that stuff at grandma's house, probably. 

I used to watch with my grandmother, my great-aunt and my uncle who's about 10 years old than me, so he would've been 15 or 16 when I was 6. He got me into rooting for Tully Blanchard and Flair and I remember my great-aunt would rail at us for rooting for the bad guys or as she would call them, "the dirty men". She'd always go, "why ya'll root for them ol' dirty men! Why don't you root for clean men like Dusty and Wahoo?!" Haha and I remember my great-grandfather got offended when Dusty said "Damn" or some other fairly mild swear on tv. He goes, "alright now sonny, you're a clean man. You can't go saying that on the television!" I love that my older relatives used to call the faces and heels, clean men or dirty men.

Edited by cwoy2j
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