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APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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1 hour ago, A_K said:

But the ratings just don’t show this? Categorically, they had the real explosion on the McMahon/Austin angle almost half a year later .. which wouldn’t have materialised without the “evil McMahon” narrative generated by the Screwjob. So, irony of ironies, it was the Screwjob more so than the wrestling classics that really led to lift off for SCSA. As ever in PW, commercial success at absolute zeniths (Hogan in 80s; Attitude era etc) storylines>in ring performance.
 

Bret became sacrificial lamb to take Fed to next level: sad for him. 

Was Austin in the position to be a top guy before he was programmed with Bret?

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I don't think anything was going to stop Austin once he hit.  I personally believe that Steve Austin is the greatest wrestling talent ever.  There are guys who were better in the ring, there were guys who were arguably better promos, I don't know if there was ever a better character, but nobody was a better worker, promo, and character all at the same time.  Breaking his neck didn't derail him, I don't think Bret Hart would have stood in his way.  Honestly, I think Bret Hart would have been great to have around as a rival for both Austin and The Rock over the next few years if he would have stayed around.  

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7 hours ago, Infinit said:

Austin would never have been in a position to succeed if Bret didn't shine him up.

Pretty much this. Between KotR 96 (mid June minus a week or so afterwards where he was getting his lip fixed due to Mero kicking him in the face) and the Pillman angle/Bret's return (October/early November), Austin you can tell was still trying to figure it out character wise. Plus, they didn't have really all that much for him to do. IIRC, he had like a weird heel vs. heel match with Hunter replacing someone at an IYH IIRC. Survivor Series 1996 at MSG and everything around that time got him on his way.

As for Shawn, I don't like that his first major opponent (besides Diesel who had already given his notice two PPVs previous) was Bulldog in a nothing happening womanizer storyline that basically went nowhere. I know they were having issues with Davey Boy because he was unhappy creatively and about his spot, but by 1996, he was just a guy. A more than serviceable worker, but just a guy. The heel turn gave him a little life, but it didn't do anything to make him feel like a main eventer. They spent May, June, and July doing that horseshit before he moved on to another member of Camp Cornette in Vader. That's basically five months of his title reign where he was saddled with mediocre creative before he finally got to someone who people might have felt like was a legit threat (he jobbed cleaned on Raw to Vader in a tag). Moreover, I don't think nice guy Shawn with his mentor hanging around really worked. Go watch his terrible promo at IYH: Mind Games where he completely gets lost. I don't think he really felt comfortable as a babyface champion doing the Lawler 80s "random opponent w/ evil manager of the month" tour. Unfortunately, I don't think what they could do creatively with Shawn given the rough shape the company was in could match how well he could perform in the ring. Things weren't lined up for him to carry a company that was flailing. 

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Todays the 5 year anniversary of the Chiefs drafting Patrick Mahomes, which means it’s the 5 year anniversary of me attending an NXT card on draft night. So here’s the results of the card, several of the people on the card are still in the WWE:

Aliyah & Ruby Riot defeat Billie Kay & Peyton Royce

Dylan Miley defeats Cezar Bononi

Killian Dain (w/Alexander Wolfe, Eric Young & Nikki Cross) defeats No Way Jose

#DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) defeat SAnitY (Alexander Wolfe & Eric Young)

Tye Dillinger defeats Patrick Clark

Asuka (c) defeats Sonya Deville

Aleister Black & Hideo Itami defeat Andrade Almas & Bobby Roode

okay, here's my count of people from that card

Currently in WWE: Aliyah, Johnny Gargano (sorta?), Tommaso Ciampa, Asuka, Sonya Deville, Robert Roode

Currently in AEW: Ruby Riot/Soho, Cezar Bononi (but only on Dark), Tye Dillinger/Shawn Spears, Aleister/Malakai Black, Andrade

Currently in Impact: Billie Kay/Jessie McKay, Peyton Royce/Cassie Lee, Eric Young

Currently in Indys or foreign countries: Killian Dain/Big Damo, No Way Jose, Alexander Wolfe/Axel Tischer (Europe), Hideo Itami/KENTA (Japan)

Currently not employed: Dylan Miley/Lars Sullivan, Patrick Clark/Velveteen Dream

So out of 20 people working an NXT card on a Thursday night in April, 6 are still with the WWE, 5 are in AEW, 3 are in Impact, 4 are in various indies or Japan, and 2 have had major problems involving their use of the internet.

Bobby Roode was also on the TNA card I saw in that building (a Jeff Jarrett and Abyss vs Beer Money semi-main event match). That tag match was worked pretty logically. The non-superstar wing of 2010 TNA was more than able to put on competent logical shows. The main event of that TNA show was Kurt Angle vs Mr. Anderson.

Edited by Cobra Commander
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7 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Is this the dickhead who was perma banned from AEW events for his anti-trans signs during the Nyla Rose match?

I think it's the "Pro Science Pro Choice Pro Wrestling" sign guy from a couple weeks ago.

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Just now, Zimbra said:

I think it's the "Pro Science Pro Choice Pro Wrestling" sign guy from a couple weeks ago.

Oh. That guy. Ok then.

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2 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Jessie and Cassie both announced today that they're done with Impact. 

And it sounds like they're done with pro wrestling in general.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Is one of them still partners with Spears? If so, I'd think they would not be totally away from the business. 

Cassie/Peyton is still with Spears 

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Well, that sucks. Hopefully they found something more lucrative to do. I'll miss their comedy act.

They make $20-50k per month from the BrandArmy website, supposedly.

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I'm behind on their podcast, but this isn't entirely surprising in light of how much they discussed expanding their repertoire and exploring other interests from the beginning.

I am, of course, gutted they're hanging it up, but pleased they're going out at close to the top of their game instead of barely hanging on out of necessity.
 

[And this is wrestling after all, virtually no one stays retired Forever-forever.  Fingers can remain crossed for one last one-off someday]

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

They make $20-50k per month from the BrandArmy website, supposedly.

I just Googled and visited the BrandArmy website and I still have no idea what that is.

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11 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

And the Bret story in 1997 is one of the best of all time. The heel in The US and baby everywhere else promos and backstage segments are some of the best in the history of the business. And with that I will point out Austin was still doing Austin shit in 1997 far before the screwjob.

 

I want to touch on this briefly because... this is one of those internet wrestling takes that is so removed from how I experienced its reception in real life at the time that I legitimately have no feel for if I'm crazy or others are. I just started college around this time, wrestling was generally pretty hot thanks to the NWO and... the thought that Stone Cold was cool but the US vs Canada feud was lame was if not universal then very widespread. You know how people here feel about WWE now? The only time I've seen wrestling fans like that towards WWF before was this very time, I know Mr. ratings guy there is making some iffy arguments but I think there is a real divide between how some people look back at this period (which legit did have the beginnings of one of the greatest wrestling characters and draws of all time in Austin) and the fact that at the time most everyone else thought that it was by far the weaker big angle of the two.

 

Not taking a shot at you or anything, you were just the most recent person to make a point like this and who knows, maybe I legit was at a very odd college but I think it was as much Austin getting away from the US/Canada thing and into a much better one as to why he took off then. That said the Bret feud is the first one to make him seem like a legit guy in WWF and one can't ignore that.

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1 hour ago, tbarrie said:

I just Googled and visited the BrandArmy website and I still have no idea what that is.

It’s an alternative to Onlyfans.

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9 hours ago, username said:

 

I want to touch on this briefly because... this is one of those internet wrestling takes that is so removed from how I experienced its reception in real life at the time that I legitimately have no feel for if I'm crazy or others are. I just started college around this time, wrestling was generally pretty hot thanks to the NWO and... the thought that Stone Cold was cool but the US vs Canada feud was lame was if not universal then very widespread. You know how people here feel about WWE now? The only time I've seen wrestling fans like that towards WWF before was this very time, I know Mr. ratings guy there is making some iffy arguments but I think there is a real divide between how some people look back at this period (which legit did have the beginnings of one of the greatest wrestling characters and draws of all time in Austin) and the fact that at the time most everyone else thought that it was by far the weaker big angle of the two.

I think the US vs. Canada feud holds up really well which is why it is talked about in such high esteem. Anecdotally, it was friends ordering Starrcade 97 that brought back my wrestling fandom. I had long stopped following wrestling up until that point and I don't think I even knew the screwjob happened until around the time Wrestling with Shadows was coming out. 

I think in retrospect it is very easy to simplify Stone Colds rise and the wrestling boom.  Yes the screw job and the rise of Mr. McMahon were factors, but so were a bunch of random things. It was the NWO that made wrestling cool again. It was the WCW/NWO World Tour game being fun. It was Tyson bringing publicity. It was Celebrity Deathmatch plastering wrestling and Stone Cold all over the coolest tv channel. 

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10 hours ago, username said:

 

I want to touch on this briefly because... this is one of those internet wrestling takes that is so removed from how I experienced its reception in real life at the time that I legitimately have no feel for if I'm crazy or others are. I just started college around this time, wrestling was generally pretty hot thanks to the NWO and... the thought that Stone Cold was cool but the US vs Canada feud was lame was if not universal then very widespread. You know how people here feel about WWE now? The only time I've seen wrestling fans like that towards WWF before was this very time, I know Mr. ratings guy there is making some iffy arguments but I think there is a real divide between how some people look back at this period (which legit did have the beginnings of one of the greatest wrestling characters and draws of all time in Austin) and the fact that at the time most everyone else thought that it was by far the weaker big angle of the two.

 

Not taking a shot at you or anything, you were just the most recent person to make a point like this and who knows, maybe I legit was at a very odd college but I think it was as much Austin getting away from the US/Canada thing and into a much better one as to why he took off then. That said the Bret feud is the first one to make him seem like a legit guy in WWF and one can't ignore that.

No worries, I don't take it as a shot at all lol.

It was definitely not as good as what WCW was doing at the time. But dude it was fucking worlds better than the warmed over shit WWE had been doing. The land of garbage men and plumbers and whatever the fuck a Portuguese Man of War was supposed to be. One week Bret tearing apart the United States in promos and getting booed out of the building then the next week they'd be in Canada or Europe and he'd be the  biggest star in the world. It was so cutting edge and soooooo much better than what the main event scene had been doing.

The boyhood dream Shawn Michaels shit. Bulldog's wife fake sexual assault thing. Cowboy Shawn beating Sid. Sid vs Undertaker as a panic backup plan when Shawn didn't want to job and forgot how to smile. The US vs Canada angle was soooo much better than all of this. Plus it lead to killlerrrrr matches like the Canadian Stampede ten man tags. I get that sometimes stuff just doesn't click with certain people for whatever reason. But I think you had the minority view on that at the time. Austin was in and out of the story doing cool Austin shit. The Bret / Shawn promos & Sunny Days. The only part of the angle I will concede is The Patriot getting shoe horned into it. That didn't fit the aesthetic of what WWE was becoming at all. But that was a short period of an 8 month run of legitimate great stuff.

It kind of blows my mind people could find this story lame and cringe but not the stuff WWE was doing in 1995 & 1996. Really? lol

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