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March 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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19 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

Michael Cole has spent most of his career as a "high floor low ceiling" guy. Overall, I thought his best work was with Taz on SD during the first brand split. My favorite match those two called was the Survivor Series 05 Raw vs. SD tag where they came in with a huge chip on their shoulder about being the B show, and just let Styles and Lawler have it during the double commentary. He was good at WM 30 too with all the Bryan stuff and "The streak... is over."

Cole is actually quite good. People need to keep in mind that he constantly does the things that annoy us because his boss wants him to do them.

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

another randomish question: where would Furnas and LaFon rank on the list of guys who should have went to WCW instead of the WWF in the mid-90s? not sure if they were ever really on the radar and they probably wouldn't have done much in WCW either, but there would have been more guys to work with there.

It's an interesting thought Furnas/Kroffatt going to WCW, but their tag division was sinking faster than WWF's at that time.  It's really a shame ECW didn't have the money to lock those two in full time.  They were great while there.  Man, that AJPW run was unreal.  Kikuchi/Kobashi-Kroffatt/Furnas is amongst my favorite matches of all time.  Those two as a team is one of the bigger wastes of talent in WWE history.  Tho, that sounds like an overstatement with the glut of people they've misused.  

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

another randomish question: where would Furnas and LaFon rank on the list of guys who should have went to WCW instead of the WWF in the mid-90s? not sure if they were ever really on the radar and they probably wouldn't have done much in WCW either, but there would have been more guys to work with there.

I looked up some WCW PPVs in 96-97 to see what the potential opposition would have been like and the tag division over there was pretty much Harlem Heat, The Nasty Boys, Public Enemy, The Steiners, and random combinations of whomever was in the NWO and Horsemen at the time. I think they could have done some good stuff with Harlem Heat and The Steiners (did they ever wrestle in Japan?), though the latter featured an increasingly roided up and less mobile Scott who was about to go solo. I think the best they would have done were to have some matches against random teams of guys from the Cruiserweight division on Saturday Night which would be mentioned fondly in our threads discussing WCW B-shows but not much else.

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

BRB, booking a "First person to get a concussion loses" match for a 2000s indy

And the loser is Paul London.

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4 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

I looked up some WCW PPVs in 96-97 to see what the potential opposition would have been like and the tag division over there was pretty much Harlem Heat, The Nasty Boys, Public Enemy, The Steiners, and random combinations of whomever was in the NWO and Horsemen at the time. I think they could have done some good stuff with Harlem Heat and The Steiners (did they ever wrestle in Japan?), though the latter featured an increasingly roided up and less mobile Scott who was about to go solo. I think the best they would have done were to have some matches against random teams of guys from the Cruiserweight division on Saturday Night which would be mentioned fondly in our threads discussing WCW B-shows but not much else.

I am in on a proposed Furnas and Lafon/Faces of Fear matchup, and I don't know why. But yeah, I'd love to have seen that. 

Or you could have them feud with the Amazing French Canadiens on SN, and I'd gladly watch the hell out of that. 

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2 hours ago, Thomas Bugg said:

There are some wrestling fans that make me sometimes question why I got into it in the first place...

 

May be a Twitter screenshot of 1 person and text that says 'Alberto Buckley Abucke Concussions are safer than blading is some take. Let's Talk Wrestling Because its unsafe to blade. Thats why WWE does not do it. Nithing is wrong with. It adds to any match. However, it should not be forced and should happen naturally. Like when... Let's Talk Wrestling @TalkingAboutWWE Replyingto@Abuckley000 Concussions, are safer than blading. One requires you to bleed. One doesn't. Do the math. Twitter for Android'

 

Yeah, that's all well and good, except....

 

May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'About 5,050 00o results seconds) These injuries affect brain function usually for a brief period resultgin signs and symptoms of concussion This type of brain injury may lead to bleeding in aroun your brain, causing symptoms such as prolonged drowsiness and confusion These symptoms may develop immediately or later Padspedepy Hadssry https //www.mayoclinic.org concussion sy 20355594 Concussion Symptoms and causes Mayo Clinic'

Also safer than a foot injury.

MV5BZjkwMWNlMWEtNTA3ZC00NzVlLWFhMDktMjc5

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2 hours ago, Thomas Bugg said:

There are some wrestling fans that make me sometimes question why I got into it in the first place...

Someone must have recently rewatched that Orton/Lesnar SummerSlam match with the stupid elbow hardway

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22 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I am in on a proposed Furnas and Lafon/Faces of Fear matchup, and I don't know why. But yeah, I'd love to have seen that. 

Or you could have them feud with the Amazing French Canadiens on SN, and I'd gladly watch the hell out of that. 

Co-signed 👍🏾

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38 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

I looked up some WCW PPVs in 96-97 to see what the potential opposition would have been like and the tag division over there was pretty much Harlem Heat, The Nasty Boys, Public Enemy, The Steiners, and random combinations of whomever was in the NWO and Horsemen at the time. I think they could have done some good stuff with Harlem Heat and The Steiners (did they ever wrestle in Japan?), though the latter featured an increasingly roided up and less mobile Scott who was about to go solo. I think the best they would have done were to have some matches against random teams of guys from the Cruiserweight division on Saturday Night which would be mentioned fondly in our threads discussing WCW B-shows but not much else.

I stand corrected, tho not the best tag division,  96-97 is a little before the division sunk to random Giant, Hall, Sting and Nash teams holding top honors.  That was 98.  A year that rounded out with the crowning of the not-so-dynamic team of Kenny Kaos and Rick Steiner.  Bischoff seemed to hate tag team wrestling long before Titan.  

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I think the '96 WCW tag scene is underrated, actually. There are no great matches, but a lot of very good ones. Outsiders/Faces of Fear had a dope match on PPV that year that is worth seeking out, just off the top. 

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8 hours ago, Infinit said:

LEGENDARY.

 

1997 was Bret Hart's best year: the Royal Rumble match, the Final Four match, vs. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13 in a ***** match which is my pick for the Greatest Match of All Time, USA vs. Canada, reuniting the Hart Foundation, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede and vs. The Undertaker at SummerSlam/One Night Only. Fuck Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels and Triple H.

1997 is also my favourite year in wrestling history.

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Posted (edited)

On the subject of Greatest Wrestling Match of All Time, which would you choose for that accolade and two runners up?

Mine:

Greatest Wrestling Match Ever: Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin. WWF WrestleMania 13. *****.

Second Place: Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue. AJPW, 9th June 1995. *****.

Third Place: Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Dominion 2018. *****.

Edited by The Natural
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2 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

I looked up some WCW PPVs in 96-97 to see what the potential opposition would have been like and the tag division over there was pretty much Harlem Heat, The Nasty Boys, Public Enemy, The Steiners, and random combinations of whomever was in the NWO and Horsemen at the time. I think they could have done some good stuff with Harlem Heat and The Steiners (did they ever wrestle in Japan?), though the latter featured an increasingly roided up and less mobile Scott who was about to go solo. I think the best they would have done were to have some matches against random teams of guys from the Cruiserweight division on Saturday Night which would be mentioned fondly in our threads discussing WCW B-shows but not much else.

Exactly. "The Furnas and LaFon should have went to WCW" is the safe, in hindsight talking point that's kinda manifested itself for about 25 years. IMO they were just in the wrong era of North American wrestling. Had they came around 15 years later after a long run in Japan, they would be on TV (or NXT) as one of the premier teams. In the Monday Night Wars, they were DOA and I don't mean the Disciples of Apocalypse. If you've ever listened to Bischoff on 83 Weeks, you would know he wanted charismatic guys and guys who popped off the screen. That definitely wasn't Furnas and LaFon. He didn't outright despise tag team wrestling like Vince, but Eric didn't get really give a damn about tag teams. The highwater mark for tag teams in the Nitro era was as pointed out above. First off, they got lucky with having a bunch of talent they didn't really belong in singles competition although there was a good Booker T vs. Scott Steiner match from either 96 or early 97 on Nitro that pretty much let you know they should be pushed as single stars. Second, if you're have a two hour or three hour show, what else are you going to put on? For a good while on Nitro, they just had a 7 or 8 minute tag team match in the middle and sometimes at the beginning of the show that usually turned out pretty good. Didn't really contribute to any storylines really (maybe you had something vaguely to do with the Horsemen or the three year long Sherri/Colonel Parker storyline), but just happened because you need content and for the hell of it. Since you had so much talent in there, it was difficult for it to really suck. 

IMO The difference between their actual WWF run and a potential WCW run is Furnas and LaFon wouldn't have been pushed super hard at the beginning and then buried quickly thereafter as a "boring" tag team. They would have just a longer, mediocre run barely above High Voltage, Renegade and Joe Gomez, Scott and Steve Armstrong, and Disorderly Conduct (or the Rock N' Roll Express who came back for some months) and jobbing to more notable teams. I can totally see them jobbing to the American Males on some random WCW Saturday Night in early 1996. I don't know why people think they would have been pushed stronger in WCW. At least in WWF, they got to shine at Survivor Series 1996. They got to have some decent matchups with Owen and Bulldog. In WCW, I don't think they ever would have gotten the arc and given the leeway of a Benoit, Guerrero, and Malenko long extended period of time to just be wrestlers who have great matches. Not as a tag team. 

I just think as a tag team, they were way before their time. 

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8 hours ago, The Natural said:

1997 was Bret Hart's best year: the Royal Rumble match, the Final Four match, vs. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13 in a ***** match which is my pick for the Greatest Match of All Time, USA vs. Canada, reuniting the Hart Foundation, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede and vs. The Undertaker at SummerSlam/One Night Only. Fuck Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels and Triple H.

1997 is also my favourite year in wrestling history.

The month and half or so after the Screw job was night and Day. Austin saved that company. I was a huge Michaels mark but I turned on him after the finish of Montreal and wasn't even smart to what was going on.

The last year in the company he was instrumental in Shamrock getting ready for his run, he got Test in, he help Edge and Christian get signed. He seemed like he was a great guy to help with bringing up talent before it was something that get you over with the internet like in has done for Hunter.

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19 hours ago, RIPPA said:

WrestleVotes is claiming that the WWE will be running a PPV in Cardiff, Wales on Saturday, Sept 2

That is the same weekend that All Out is supposed to be (based on them traditionally running Labor Day weekend)

Didn't they do this before? I have memories of a show in Cardiff the same day as an AEW PPV, that was the same day there was a big Wales rugby union game on in Cardiff which meant there weren't actually very many hotels available in the city for wrestling fans, because rugby internationals are organised months & months in advance.

OK, Cagematch has let me answer my own question. 31st August 2019, & not only was there both AEW All Out in Chicago & NXT UK Takeover in Cardiff, New Japan were running Royal Quest in London & that's why I remember this, because NJPW announced the London show & then WWE rushed in afterwards to say "what a coincidence, we're also announcing a show in the UK that same day!"

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18 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

The month and half or so after the Screw job was night and Day. Austin saved that company. I was a huge Michaels mark but I turned on him after the finish of Montreal and wasn't even smart to what was going on.

The last year in the company he was instrumental in Shamrock getting ready for his run, he got Test in, he help Edge and Christian get signed. He seemed like he was a great guy to help with bringing up talent before it was something that get you over with the internet like in has done for Hunter.

Bret Hart was supposed to beat The Rock, WWF Intercontinental Championship but Bret turned it into a DQ loss. Bret Hart was a big proponent of The Rock saying if he could talk, he'll be the man and Mick Foley along with the others names you mentioned. Bret did what's best for business, what a mind, wrestler and man he is.

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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

Bret Hart was supposed to beat The Rock, WWF Intercontinental Championship but Bret turned it into a DQ loss. Bret Hart was a big proponent of The Rock saying if he could talk, he'll be the man and Mick Foley along with the others names you mentioned. Bret did what's best for business, what a mind, wrestler and man he is.

I saw you mentioned 1997 as Bret's best year.  I always think it's a toss up between 1992 and 1997.  92 had the matches with Piper, Flair, the ladder and survivor series matches with Shawn, Bulldog that really put him into the heavyweight title picture.    Singles wise everything from Summerslam 91 onward was good from Bret.  92 and 97 were great yrs for Bret

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Just now, paintedbynumbers said:

I saw you mentioned 1997 as Bret's best year.  I always think it's a toss up between 1992 and 1997.  92 had the matches with Piper, Flair, the ladder and survivor series matches with Shawn, Bulldog that really put him into the heavyweight title picture.    Singles wise everything from Summerslam 91 onward was good from Bret.  92 and 97 were great yrs for Bret

1992's up there for those reasons. 1994 as well for the matches with Owen Hart at WrestleMania X/SummerSlam I gave ***** to both, vs. Diesel, 123 Kid and Bob Backlund.

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