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March 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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Jim Brunzell was a hell of a tag guy in both AWA and WWF. I loved both the High Flyers and Killer Bees and feel that the Bees should've won the tag belts at least once. Hell I remember Brunzell being fun as singles guy against Neidhart at MSG the night of singles matches leading to the tag team battle royal that the Islanders won. He'd get a hot tag in  match and you'd sit with other people in the arena waiting for that tremendous dropkick of his (which busted Savage's jaw in one match).

James

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53 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Watching the Kliq tag from Action Zone (which is posted in the Scott Hall memorial thread) got me watching more tags with Kevin Nash. I'm feeling like Nash is massively underrated as a tag worker. It's like when I ended up going down a rabbit hole and watching Barbarian be an awesome tag worker across multiple teams over multiple years, or Haku being great as a Colossal Connection, a Face of Fear, and an Islander. 

Jump off: Which workers do you think are underrated tag workers worth watching in a bunch of tags? I'm especially interested in a) people more known for singles runs than as part of a tag team, and b) people who are thought of as "just okay" or worse as singles wrestlers who IYO excel in tags. 

If you want to list a few matches to watch, that'd be great, too. 

I'm sure somewhere there's been people far more analytical than me who can tell you how much they enjoyed Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes as a team in 1992 WCW, but that was probably my favorite team as a kid. I always see them far more remembered in singles than anywhere else.

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29 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Butch Reed is pretty great, too. DOOM is an awesome tag team, IMO. 

After knowing Zeus to be the scariest dude my toddler ass had ever seen (& to this day, not caring about the results of his PPV match, because I still believe Hogan had no chance), seeing Doom was kind of like a waking nightmare. Really didn't believe Steiners had a chance against them...When The Acolytes came around, I was sure the Hardyz were getting sent back to jobberland. 

Never having cable-TV growing up, I still support no-selling kayfabe killers and don't care if it led to my mental/social ills. When it comes down to it, I still blame the evils of TV-programming on instances like Triple H entering WM as champ and leaving as a heel...with the title. There's just no forgiving that in my mind...

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1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Neidhart is interesting. I think the Hart Foundation is a good tag team, but I think most of that is Bret being a great FIP. Neidhart is fine in his role, but his hot-tag big-man offense isn't that great. It's adequate. What other tag work does he have worth checking out, do you think?

That sounds like a take on their babyface run.  The heel Harts is what I was thinking there.  Jim scared the bejesus out of me and I thought he was a threat to anyone he locked horns with.  His maniacal laugh and aggressively loud promo were also frightening.  And awesome.  

50 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I wonder how much footage of Neidhart and Darsow as a team in Florida exists from 1984/1985, just before Neidhart went to the WWF.

Thanks.  I had no idea such a team even existed.  I need to see this.  I also need to see that aforementioned Butch Reed/Neidhart combo.  

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1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Neidhart is interesting. I think the Hart Foundation is a good tag team, but I think most of that is Bret being a great FIP. Neidhart is fine in his role, but his hot-tag big-man offense isn't that great. It's adequate. What other tag work does he have worth checking out, do you think?

 

The clique tag was released on the Slamfest VHS which also features a Hart Family tag which features Bret and Bulldog v Anvil and Owen. So in my mind Anvil had good tags teams with Bulldog in WCW and with Owen as the New Foundation.

I also remember a random late period nitro that had Kevin Nash and Wolfpac Sting v Harlem Heat that was really good

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9 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

That sounds like a take on their babyface run.  The heel Harts is what I was thinking there.  Jim scared the bejesus out of me and I thought he was a threat to anyone he locked horns with.  His maniacal laugh and aggressively loud promo were also frightening.  And awesome.  

Thanks.  I had no idea such a team even existed.  I need to see this.  I also need to see that aforementioned Butch Reed/Neidhart combo.  

Found some footage of Neidhart and Darsow, it's not great quality but it's something at least. Their match starts at 10:41.

 

Edited by Stefanie the Human
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5 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

serious question

Does anyone think NXT 2.0 is better than what we had before?  Building a show on new talent is always well and good if your champion isn't Dolph Ziggler.  Loved 2014-2018 NXT.  Not a fan of the arena looking like my 2nd great Art smock either. 

Generally speaking outside of the first rough 4-6 weeks I think 2.0 has been solid-good. I wouldn't say 2.0  is better, but the black and gold had a good 5-6 years out of 7-8 so its kind of early to really compare. I do still hate the new sign design along the arena lighting. I'm good with more brightness and a little more color, but they went too far.

Edit: And somehow I only noticed just now he was banned.

Edited by Eivion
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1 hour ago, J.H. said:

Jim Brunzell was a hell of a tag guy in both AWA and WWF. I loved both the High Flyers and Killer Bees and feel that the Bees should've won the tag belts at least once. Hell I remember Brunzell being fun as singles guy against Neidhart at MSG the night of singles matches leading to the tag team battle royal that the Islanders won. He'd get a hot tag in  match and you'd sit with other people in the arena waiting for that tremendous dropkick of his (which busted Savage's jaw in one match).

James

Brunzell is indeed great, though he is definitely a tag guy in my mind. Makes me wonder if it's worth watching more of his singles stuff.

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All this tag team talk got me thinking. There hasn’t been a tag team break up in AEW yet, has there? I mean like Omega and Hangman just decided to stop teaming before they feuded, so not really a break up. I mean, we haven’t anyone turn on their regular partner yet, have we?

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2 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Watching the Kliq tag from Action Zone (which is posted in the Scott Hall memorial thread) got me watching more tags with Kevin Nash. I'm feeling like Nash is massively underrated as a tag worker. It's like when I ended up going down a rabbit hole and watching Barbarian be an awesome tag worker across multiple teams over multiple years, or Haku being great as a Colossal Connection, a Face of Fear, and an Islander. 

If you listen to any shoot interview with him when he is speaking on psychology of a match, he's a smart guy. He definitely proved in his last full-time run that he could go when he wanted to. He was from a Era where guys weren't running through every spot move for move and you had to think on your feet a lot. You could be very limited in the ring or decide to take the Night off out there and work around it if your smart enough. 

 

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Owen Hart is another guy who's remembered as a singles wrestler but had great tags. He had his championship run with Bulldog, his team with JJ in 99 that was some solid work rate stuff, and Bret/Owen v Steiners is on the short list of greatest WWF tags ever

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23 minutes ago, Log said:

All this tag team talk got me thinking. There hasn’t been a tag team break up in AEW yet, has there? I mean like Omega and Hangman just decided to stop teaming before they feuded, so not really a break up. I mean, we haven’t anyone turn on their regular partner yet, have we?

Joey Janela turned on Sonny Kiss, but it was on the YouTube shows so it might as well not have counted.

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Bradshaw was always awesome in those mid/late 90s tags.

Everyone piles into the ring for a shmozz and he just winds up and rips someone's head off with a lariat. Always got a pop.

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16 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Joey Janela turned on Sonny Kiss, but it was on the YouTube shows so it might as well not have counted.

I think they aired a brief replay on TV once. Outside of the blowoff match, I don't think I've watched any of their Youtube stuff, but I definitely remember seeing the break up. 

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Was Billy Gunn a good tag guy or just that bad as a single?

Billy & Chuck, the Gunns, the Outlaws were all perfectly OK, and he was a good hot tag if nothing else. There was also that weird RAW in 98 where he came out to be Austin's partner and the crowd went kinda mild for it.

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Both? His singles pushes always fizzled but you could always throw him into a tag team with Bob Holly or Big Show and it would work.

Ever since the Rockers on The Barbershop incident someone turning on their tag partner has become such a WWE trope that is been done to death.

If AEW wants to Push say Bowens as a single he doesn't need to turn on Caster. Bret didn't turn on Neinhart he just started working more singles. I'd prefer they do it that way

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Something today made me recall the quote, "And nothing of value was lost.". Not sure what it was that made me think of that.  It probably wasn't important.

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56 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Was Billy Gunn a good tag guy or just that bad as a single?

Billy & Chuck, the Gunns, the Outlaws were all perfectly OK, and he was a good hot tag if nothing else. There was also that weird RAW in 98 where he came out to be Austin's partner and the crowd went kinda mild for it.

Billy Gunn's issue is that his singles gimmick was always "Look at this amazing athlete". He was Dolph Ziggler 10 years too early and was never going to be in the realm of the late 90's/early 00's main event.

Put him on Smackdown from 2008-2012 though and he would have picked up a few runs alongside Jeff Hardy, Mark Henry and Christian.

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I know I mentioned this in the AEW thread but I legit think the modern day underrated tag guy is Trent. If you look at a lot of the AEW classics, he shows up a lot more than maybe you’d think going in. Combined with of course real quality work in NJPW. 

Historical suggestion that hasn’t been mentioned is Paul Roma. Bring the heat, I’m ready.

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Power And Glory had a bad-ass finisher that unfortunately got no-sold any time they hit someone of consequence with it

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12 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Billy Gunn's issue is that his singles gimmick was always "Look at this amazing athlete". He was Dolph Ziggler 10 years too early and was never going to be in the realm of the late 90's/early 00's main event.

Put him on Smackdown from 2008-2012 though and he would have picked up a few runs alongside Jeff Hardy, Mark Henry and Christian.

I think the difference there was that Dolph was an amazing athlete that translated into a good/entertaining wrestler that needed to be seen to be believed. Even though there were probably half a dozen guys on the roster that did that better.

Whereas, the only one who seemingly cared about Billy Gunn's athletic credentials was Jim Ross. There was never really any attempt to seriously convey or translate his rodeo scholarship or his massive vertical leap into his in-ring credentials. It was always just "Huh, fun fact" or humouring JR because he found an interesting talking point, and probably people just glad it wasn't another never-ending segue into someone's college football history.

Edited by GuerrillaMonsoon
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2 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Brunzell is indeed great, though he is definitely a tag guy in my mind. Makes me wonder if it's worth watching more of his singles stuff.

There was a Brunzell/Bock match on te AWA set as I recall. His one WWF TV singles match where he broke Savage's jaw, before the SummerSlam mixed tag against Dusty, was a big "More than a tag worker" moment.

James

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