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March 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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On 3/29/2022 at 12:17 PM, HarryArchieGus said:

I see no reason to doubt that. 

Perez was silky smooth.  Sounds like the industry soiled his spirit (tho, I don't know any facts of the matter).  Pro Wrestling Plus here in Canada would feature Continental Wrestling from time to time.  My pals and I all thought we were pretty fuckin cool when we'd list the somewhat obscure (regionally) Wildcat as one of our favorite wrestlers.  Like knowing a really cool band that nobody had heard of (outside of NY and pre-internet) like ESG

Perez was also kinda nuts and hard to deal with. Gary Hart went into it in his book. Hart liked him and would always push for creative to do more with him. Apparently Perez was going to get a shot at Flair's title in Tampa which was Al's hometown. Al went to Gary and said that he was gonna shoot on Flair and legit pin him as Al was pissed that Flair was going to go over clean and he'd been unhappy about other things too. He reasoned that if he did that in front of his hometown fans, the NWA would have no choice but to acknowledge what happened and at the very least, put him in a top program with Flair. Hart figured that Perez actually could've done it as he (Al) was a legit accomplished shooter and he told the office about it. They made a last second change and substituted Eddie Gilbert for the match. What's crazy is that wasn't even the end of Perez in the NWA as they brought him back to be one of the Black Scorpions. You'd think something like that would've gotten a guy blackballed for life but they brought him back a couple of times for that angle.

Edited by cwoy2j
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3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What? He's awesome..  

I probably was too flip about him - no one makes it that far without some talent. Not even Pia Zadora. Same for wrestling. Well, okay, maybe not El Gigante/Giant Gonzalez. But Orton has, in general, major-league talent.

However, Eisenberg had a short A-list run because of a lack of range. That basically would describe Orton if the WWE weren't stuck somewhere between 1998 and 2005 on any and every given night they have a show and thus are unable to move on from guys who have long since worn out their welcome or what little drawing power they may have once had. 

Re: Rollins and Edge, I can squint and see Edge as a star. Not a huge one, but yeah, he just makes it to that level. He was actually over during a time that the product was hot. He wasn't a tippy-top guy between 1998 and 2001, but he was an important mid-card guy on the rise and had enough burn to parlay that into enough of a main event run that the lapsed fans I know do mention him, still.

Rollins is unequivocally not a star. Dude is anonymous outside of hardcore wrestling circles. No one except WWE's shrinking audience gives a fuck about him. He has a negative Q-rating. 

All that is irrelevant, though, because the conversation was exactly about what we want and what roles we think guys like that would thrive in, not about what the dwindling American wrestling fandom wants. 

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8 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

1997 is the best year in the history of wrestling. WWE digging it's self out of the Doink / TL Hopper / Duke The Dumpster era with the excellent Bret Hart anti USA stuff. Nitro hitting it's stride with dope cruiserweights and the Sting / nWo story. ECW stirring shit up with Sabu & RVD & Sandman & Taz.

Maybe it's nostalgia but fuck man... is 1997 the greatest year ever for US pro wrestling??? By the way, I won't accept no for an answer lol.

NO (no backsies)

I respectfully disagree, but I would have to cite the cop-out/truth of subjectivity. The really really best pro wrestling, meaning the stuff that you love as a maven*, is the wrestling that get an emotional reaction from you and has real resonance. This is often the wrestling you watched as a kid, when you were more emotional and the intellectual weight of being smartened up hadn't sunk in, or from a period when you have positive memories, perhaps when you were watching with friends and/or family. This is usually in addition to your judgement of "good" wrestling. Hey, I see a lot of posters with otherwise good taste defending the matches of filks like  The Ultimate Warrior and such without irony or embarrassment. 

1997 was a pivotal and exciting year for rassling, to be sure. For me, I really dig 1985-86: Horsemen in a groove, the territories hustling to keep up with a rapacious WWF, uncertainty in the future landscape, JCP supershows, Savage waking up the WWF, The War to Settle the Score -  or maybe 1995: rise of ECW, tape trading making feds from around the world available, lucha is super hot, Japanese deathmatch excess, fusion workers incorporating separate styles into what would become the modern over the top standard. I think the ring work from those two years is superior to the output from your fave, and I have a lot of fun memories of wrestling from then but as I said, it's subjective.

I will give you the WCW cruiserweights as a shining star in any timeframe.

*As in a fan who is also a connoisseur, not the schmendrick** who eliminated The Undertaker.

**Not to be confused with Thee Brian Kendrick, an excellent worker who may or may not be cancelled here on thee DVDVR, I can't tell anymore.

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Uh, the 80s were awesome.  It was the first time I ever knew the tender touch of a lady.  The best time for wrestling was YESTERDAY.  Did y;all SEE Dynamite.

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10 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Owen's sobbing would have been what I remember except that Bret upstaged him at the end there with the glare.

Bret's 1997 is still one of my four or five favorite wrestler years even with the ignominious ending to it. Up there with Rude '92 for me. Geez, what else would I put in that top five? I need to think about that. 

Good question.

Bret Hart, 1997.

Kenta Kobashi, 2004.

Samoa Joe, 2005.

Bryan Danielson, 2006.

Daniel Bryan, 2013.

10 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

1997 is the best year in the history of wrestling. WWE digging it's self out of the Doink / TL Hopper / Duke The Dumpster era with the excellent Bret Hart anti USA stuff. Nitro hitting it's stride with dope cruiserweights and the Sting / nWo story. ECW stirring shit up with Sabu & RVD & Sandman & Taz.

Maybe it's nostalgia but fuck man... is 1997 the greatest year ever for US pro wrestling??? By the way, I won't accept no for an answer lol.

1997 is my pick for Greatest Year Ever in Wrestling.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

The 80s sucked, and I will die on this hill, I don't care. Come at me brahs.

Spoken like someone who was not around to enjoy the '80s, man.

However, I peaked very early and it has been down hill ever since, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Wrestling in the '80s was great for me because I was seeing everything with fresh eyes, and I will stack the good NWA TV on TBS against any product from anywhere/when else.

Casey, are you another 1997 mark patron?

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