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Dynamite - 11/17/2021


Gordlow
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Like I said, it’s been litigated, but I’m new to the product, and I didn’t speak lightly when I said I thought it was the single biggest issue I’ve observed with AEW over the last few months. I really feel that way. I can understand people not wanting to talk about an issue where the ground has been covered and am happy to move on if everyone else is.

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8 hours ago, killsteve said:

Billy Gunn challenging is so random it's baffling, but at least an easy win for Darby.

I hope? Gunn is easily the least giving of all the old guys/"legends" on the AEW roster, so I'm a little worried to be honest.

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2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Lead play by play guy or nothing at all? Well, shit, you’ve backed me into a corner!

Nothing at all. He shouldn’t be a lead commentator of a promotion that takes so much influence from companies like Pro Wrestling Guerilla.

I understand that you feel that way.

So my follow up question is are you okay with disrespecting JR and firing him and ending his career on such negative terms? Do you think he deserves to go out on better terms for all he's done for wrestling? I mean it's an opinion question so it's okay if your opinion is no.

Just trying to put it in context what everyone is asking for. For what you want to happen, you have to burn a bridge with a legend and fire him. That's the reality of the situation. So maybe it'll be a little more clear why they don't make a change that a lot of us think is so obvious. It would be a bad look, PR wise and locker room morale wise. There's a lot of respected veterans in AEW that respect JR very highly. And firing him against his wishes would not be viewed as a total positive by those people... even if the on air product improved a bit for it.

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984k viewers, 0.37 in the 18-49 demo, no.3 on the night behind NBA. Coming within a hair of a million again is Cowboy Shit.

Im all in on dickhead Bryan leaving a wake of destroyed Dark Order members. Thought we were only getting the amazing pre tape MJF and then he also blesses us with his presence in the ring opposite a mute Punk. Definitely up for that. Women tore the house down and Sammy belonged in his spot. Such a great show when they could have just done a filler/regroup session.

Edited by Custos
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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

As @Matt Dtried to say already, if TK is fine with the rules being flouted, then that’s how it goes and I guess what you assume are the rules are not.  If the company allows triple teaming, and then JR shits on the triple BTE trigger, as he did a few weeks ago, then he’s the one who is wrong.  If Ross dislikes the way AEW presents wrestling, he needs to talk to TK, because shitting on it on commentary is counterproductive.

Maybe Tony Khan is fine with wrestlers flouting the rules in front of the officials who do nothing about it but then he must also be fine with JR shitting on the rule flouting since it’s been over two years and he hasn’t stopped it yet, and he’s literally on the headset every show.

I don’t like when wrestlers blatantly flout the rules in front of the officials, so I appreciate JR giving a voice to my frustrations. So it’s not counter productive to me or the people who have a similar view.

 

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I’ve found my trick to watching wrestling without English language commentary is to call the matches out loud while I’m watching. It keeps me dialed in to what’s going on and makes me focus on psychology more. It’s also confirmed that doing commentary is very hard and that I’m the shits at it. 

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The little girl giving Nyla Beast the bad mouth at the 3:26 mark of the video is the best of all Virginians.

I think they missed an opportunity to let Nyla cut a promo on how she got her 50th win over Shida in this tournament and doesn't need a stinking trophy to mark the accomplishment.  We're after gold, not glass.

Edited by J.T.
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2 hours ago, Casey said:

You find Excalibur’s oversells excessive, yet you want a Joey Styles return? What the fuck?

Well that's a bit salty, but on brand I suppose. 

Joey Styles is a natural public speaker.  He has great flow and could fit into any era of any sport.  He has incredible voice control and emotes very naturally.  Excalibur is not a natural.  He clearly works hard at his job and has extensive knowledge, and he's generally fine, but it's hard to miss his pre-teen storytelling/overselling of specific elements of matches or ongoing stories.  It's the shit that surfaces and nearly ruins debuts like the Butcher, the Blade, and the Bunny and Not Tommy End.  Those are the standouts.  

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3 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 But me personally I have only commentated two professional wrestling matches in my life. And with the exception of Goreman, no one else here has any real experience or knowledge to our opinions. We're just talking about what we like and what we don't like. I wish it was framed as such. I think people stating their opinions of what they like or don't like, instead of coming from a position of your opinion as fact, would help the discourse a bit.

 

That is incorrect. 

And if you want to claim that having experience grants special insight, which is not unreasonable, then I have a lot more experience commentating TV wrestling than you do 😃 (almost certainly less in-ring experience, though). (Vancouver All Star Wrestling on BCTV and nationwide on the Can-Star satellite - or something like that, 1986 - 1989, where I got to work alongside Mauro Ranallo, John Tenta, Diamond Timothy Flowers...)

I was taught that my job was to put the wrestlers and the wrestling over.

(And, for what it's worth I was also definitely taught that the safety of the other people in the match was my number one priority, and not that it's OK to hit an obviously concussed opponent in the head to "snap them out of it." Though I was also taught that accepting getting dinged up and/or having your bell rung with grace and alacrity was the proper and accepted etiquette).

Anyway: In term of my personal "real experience or knowledge" JR does not always appear to be doing his very best to put AEW's wrestlers and wrestling over. 

Although, I absolutely understand that JR's own "real experience or knowledge" far, far outweighs my own. (Or yours, mine, and @Gorman's and @Marty Sugar's combined, several times over). (And I'd be very interested to hear Gorman's take on this).

I greatly admire and respect JR as a sportscaster and interviewer. He was indeed the very best in the world for quite a long time. He often cracks me up these days, (sometimes intentionally). He occasionally nails a great call at exactly the right moment, and I am pumped every time that happens.

But on balance, in my (educated?) opinion, he takes more away from the table than he brings to it, and that has been the case since he came to AEW, I sincerely wish that he could accept his limitations, be the "third man" in the booth, and only speak when he actually has something to say that contributes to the story being told (and he often does have such things to say). I wish he could accept a slightly different role, as has been suggested more than once in this thread and elsewhere. But it seems that he's unwilling or unable to do so. And, presumably and understandably, the folks around him apparently have too much respect for him to get in his ear about it. So, with a heavy heart, I have to agree with @Matt D: Regardless of all he's done and accomplished and how great he once was, JR as lead announcer is a net negative for AEW at this time.

(I also, (perhaps controversially?) think it's good to discuss pro wrestling things on a pro wrestling discussion board, even if they have been discussed before and likely will be again).

Edited by Gordberg
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37 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Sorry but there's no way Excalibur is a better PBP than Tony.

Says someone who clearly doesn't watch Elevation ...

I was gonna leave it at that, but to put a point on it, Tony has started calling:

Spinebusters as "power bombs"

Neckbreakers as "cutters"

DDTs on the apron with "I don't know who got the worst of that!"

What am I forgetting?

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11 minutes ago, Dog said:

Says someone who clearly doesn't watch Elevation ...

I was gonna leave it at that, but to put a point on it, Tony has started calling:

Spinebusters as "power bombs"

Neckbreakers as "cutters"

DDTs on the apron with "I don't know who got the worst of that!"

What am I forgetting?

He has a few flubs but his commentary voice and cadence is the best they have. 

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While he's certainly not getting fired unless he does something absurd, JR's contract is one of the first big ones coming up early next year. I'm guessing Tony will want to keep him on in whatever role Jim wants for as long as he wants to and feels capable. Will be interesting to see how people respond to whichever way Jim and AEW decide to go. 

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20 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

He has a few flubs but his commentary voice and cadence is the best they have. 

Surely the things a play-by-play person says are more important than the timbre of their voice.

Morgan Freeman would probably be shit at wrestling PBP. I'm guessing.

EDIT: To be clear, I LOVE Schiavone marking out and just generally loving what wrestling has become. But that's a color commentary thing. He's worse at PBP than he's ever been. Even worse than JR!

Edited by Dog
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Damnit, sorry @Gordberglol. I know there are a couple previous commentators on the board but Goreman is the only one I knew of for sure to name drop. (Because whether he knows it or not he's called a few of my matches lol). I do lean towards agreeing with your overall point. JR nails it 15-20% of the time with a great call. 30% of the time he's just mailing it in. 50% of the time or so he's actively detracting from the show. (Your percentages may vary). But I still just don't see how you take him out back old yeller style without any blow back. I feel like for all his contributions, he's earned the right to go out when he wants. With a cancer diagnosis and radiation on the table I think he's going to realize there's more important places to spend the time he has left. I hope at least. It may just be the OCD in me, but it would be so much less messy if the he makes the decision for himself.
 

4 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

While he's certainly not getting fired unless he does something absurd, JR's contract is one of the first big ones coming up early next year. I'm guessing Tony will want to keep him on in whatever role Jim wants for as long as he wants to and feels capable. Will be interesting to see how people respond to whichever way Jim and AEW decide to go. 


This is speculation on my part mixed with recollections of what he's talked about on his podcast. I'm fairly sure his first 3 year deal was already up. I think he was signed in fall of 2018, before the company officially launched, as a way to lock him in and show TNT they had him on board. On his podcast he spoke about his deal being up a few months ago, and the renegotiating process a bit. He said he's only doing one year contracts from now on because he doesn't know how long he'll be able to keep up with the travel pace at his age. So I believe he is actually signed until Fall of 2022 currently. At least if we take what he said at it's word.

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

Surely the things a play-by-play person says are more important than the timbre of their voice.

To me Tony is closer to the total package.  i'd rather listen to Gorilla than most any PBP announcer there's ever been.  He wasn't huge on calling out moves and their origins really.. not that i recall.  But he had a tremendous voice and captured the moments.  That's what Excalibure doesn't do. He doesn't capture the moment. 

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I think Tony is so highly praised right now because he's not the play by play guy. He doesn't have any pressure on him. He cracks a few jokes. Throws in a shitload of excitement and just picks his spots. Like a more knowledgeable David Crockett. But if he were to be put in the head play by play spot I think that praise would drop like a rock. He is awesome at what he's doing now. But he's not the best when it comes to driving the car. Being the hard sell storytelling guy is not his strength. His strength is giving the viewer a voice. Showing excitement. Saying what fans are thinking.

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7 hours ago, Bryan said:

This mind reading/projection stuff is so annoying because it’s so obviously untrue.

If he didn’t care he wouldn’t take the criticism from people like you so personally.

He’s a 70 year old man that has had multiple bouts of Bell’s palsy, a stroke, and currently has skin cancer (whose treatments he’s scheduled around AEW tv despite “not caring.”).

He doesn’t have his fastball but he’s obviously trying and he has moments that enhance a match more than any of his counterparts because he has more credibility.

And he has more credibility precisely because he doesn’t pretend like the rules don’t exist so a stunt can be performed, and questions what the referees are doing when they don’t enforce the rules which are blatantly violated in front of them.

The fact that maybe 90% of the roster can’t throw a good working punch which is continually exposed by the camera shots they’re using, and that the wrestlers have completely buried the refs since AEW began are all far bigger issues than JR stumbling or using a wrong name.

A wrestling commentator is a part of the show. The job is to sell what they’re seeing not continually undercut what the company is presenting. It’s not Joe Buck calling an NFL game. I don’t recall Lance Russell in Memphis doing shit like that. What does Ross’s ‘credibility’ even mean? I’m sure Kevin Kelly doesn’t agree with NJPW booking but he manages to not bitch about their house style. 

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58 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Damnit, sorry @Gordberglol. I know there are a couple previous commentators on the board but Goreman is the only one I knew of for sure to name drop.

Prior to my transition, I did eight years of play-by-play and color for a couple of indies in the Mid-Atlantic. Post-transition, I managed the announcer selection process for an international women's sports organization, including their ESPN broadcasts, for five years, in addition to another six years of play-by-play and color of announcing that sport.

I'd bench Jim Ross in a heartbeat from live commentary and only use him for sit-down interviews and personality profiles. Commentary is not a lifetime achievement award, you can either get the job done or you can't. Right now, he's a detriment to the call and is coasting based on his reputation. If he were not Jim Ross, he would have been dropped for half of the mistakes he's made.

Edited by Stefanie the Human
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