Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Dynamite - 11/17/2021


Gordlow
 Share

Recommended Posts

I’ve said before, a pro wrestling commentator’s job is to put things over. It’s not to lend credibility or anything else. 
 

How have we made it this far talking about JR and not brought up him saying that Uno “left some DNA” on Danielson’s chest? That was some straight-up Bill Mercer “He’s exploding all over him!” stuff right there. 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

As for calling out the refs on camera? That does no one any good unless it's a specific story element of the match. If he thinks it's a problem, he should talk to Tony Khan off camera. It's his job to cover for that shit and to provide reasons, not to further expose it. Say that the action is moving too fast or that the heels are too tricky or that the ref, like any other normal human being is intimidated by the monster heel, etc. You don't bestow credibility on something by shitting on it. You do your job and lend your credibility to it. And if you have a problem doing your job because what's on screen, you take that up with your boss instead of doing the opposite of your job on live TV.

And to be fair, he's lucky his boss is Tony Khan. I have a feeling if he did something like that in WWE Vince would be barking his ear off. Which makes me wonder why he does it in AEW when he's never really done it before to my recollection.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Log said:

I’ve said before, a pro wrestling commentator’s job is to put things over. It’s not to lend credibility or anything else. 
 

How have we made it this far talking about JR and not brought up him saying that Uno “left some DNA” on Danielson’s chest? That was some straight-up Bill Mercer “He’s exploding all over him!” stuff right there. 

Tangentially, OU's football recruiting hashtag is, or was OUDNA which frequently mocked for similar reasons.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Building on what Mat had alluded to about JR being unhelpful when talking strategy during a match, when Jim heads in that direction and it's a match or group of competitors you know he's not especially invested in, it can hit the ear as though he's telling people what they should be doing rather than attempting to cover up any potential flaws in the action or relay why people would be doing things a certain way. He's definitely been an ungenerous collaborator with what's taking place in the ring many times, to the point where everyone has a good sense of what he does or doesn't like. Him feeling a certain way about people or performances isn't in itself a problem, but people hearing it on television is. 

What exacerbates the problems is that many fans and clearly some of the talent have strong feelings about this stuff and things Jim vocalizes on his podcast. Jim tends to publicly take that criticism hard, and it creates a cycle that just continually erodes trust or opens the door to more people reading into his commentary. 

Without reading into things too much, the return to packed houses and the emergence of some big names seems to have put some pep in Jim's step in recent months. I found his flaws even more glaring during the early months of AEW and through stretches of the COVID protocol shows. I have no doubt about him wanting to be there and put in a quality performance though. The results, well everyone's going to be their own judge. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think the way forward is a two-man booth of Excalibur (PBP) and Tony Schiavone (Colour), with JR coming in for occasional big matches. Let him be a commentary producer, help people like Mark Henry, Wight, Starks, etc. and chip in with Christopher Daniels for Talent Relations or something. More than anything else, I think that's where his real value is - backstage. He scouted and signed some of the biggest names of the 90s and 00s, let him help out in that regard.

If these casual and/or lapsed fans exist/tune into AEW, are we really sure they want to hear JR talk about wrestlers that have been dead for decades while Tomohiro Ishii beats up a guitar player for a metal band, or talk shit about wrestlers' footwear (or praise them)? I'd imagine they'd be more into hearing the voice of WCW be fucking excited about Dante Martin doing an insane dive, rather than JR grumble about Rick Knox letting Lio Rush and Dante in the ring past 10 seconds or whatever.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Casey said:

I still think the way forward is a two-man booth of Excalibur (PBP) and Tony Schiavone (Colour), with JR coming in for occasional big matches. Let him be a commentary producer, help people like Mark Henry, Wight, Starks, etc. and chip in with Christopher Daniels for Talent Relations or something. More than anything else, I think that's where his real value is - backstage. He scouted and signed some of the biggest names of the 90s and 00s, let him help out in that regard.

 

It really hit me last night how bad this three man booth is.  All three were exchanging the color and PBP roles willy nilly and it was really off-putting.  And many times, one would start to make a point and another would cut him off.  It was rough.

As for other roles, I definitely think JR's days as a talent scout have passed him by.  I can't see him at an indy show, where nobody meets the Vince Size Scale and probably never played college football, thinking anyone had anything to offer.

Edited by Technico Support
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Matt D said:

So I'm not as into the mind reading either. I don't think JR hates the product. I think he wants to be there. I think he wants to contribute. I think he doesn't need it to be mid-south. He wants to do his best.

I just don't think he's capable to do it at high level over a span of time anymore. Which might be even more insulting than what other people are saying, but that's my impression.

As for calling out the refs on camera? That does no one any good unless it's a specific story element of the match. If he thinks it's a problem, he should talk to Tony Khan off camera. It's his job to cover for that shit and to provide reasons, not to further expose it. Say that the action is moving too fast or that the heels are too tricky or that the ref, like any other normal human being is intimidated by the monster heel, etc. You don't bestow credibility on something by shitting on it. You do your job and lend your credibility to it. And if you have a problem doing your job because what's on screen, you take that up with your boss instead of doing the opposite of your job on live TV.

You can’t bestow credibility on anything if you aren’t credible yourself.

And if you insult the intelligence of your audience by assuming that they don’t know basic rules (that are too frequently ignored by AEW officials) you lose credibility.

Because it’s live tv we can see it and wonder what exactly the purpose of Rick Knox even is. Having an announcer validate that you’re not crazy the referee just isn’t doing his job is actually refreshing.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The perfect solution for commentary is Taz on colour for everything. He's sharp, quick-witted, and can bring some decent insight to submission and leverage stuff. He can do his heel schtick without driving the whole show off a cliff. He has good chemistry with Ex. And while not being the iconic voice that JR is, it's not like Taz hasn't put in almost a decade in the Sports Entertainment mines for people who think that matters. 

There's a hierarchy and Tony isn't losing his spot. But Taz is the best colour guy they've got. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

It really hit me last night how bad this three man booth is.  All three were exchanging the color and PBP roles willy nilly and it was really off-putting.  And many times, one would start to make a point and another would cut him off.  It was rough.

As for other roles, I definitely think JR's days as a talent scout have passed him by.  I can't see him at an indy show, where nobody meets the Vince Size Scale and probably never played college football, thinking anyone had anything to offer.

I don't think you necessarily need to have JR be at indie shows or whatever. AEW has already shown that they'll sign people who have no wrestling experience in Jade Cargill, Kayla Rossi, Anthony Ogogo, Brock Anderson, Satnam Singh, etc.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excalibur and Taz should definitely be the main team on Dynamite.

Tony is a likeable guy but I think his best role is interviewing the talent in-ring/backstage. On commentary he usually relies too much on agreeing with whatever Excalibur or JR say instead of having his own voice or making the subject more interesting.
 

He does have some pretty good nights calling matches and little details but maybe the 3-Man booth limits that for him too.

 

Edited by eikerir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Bryan said:

You can’t bestow credibility on anything if you aren’t credible yourself.

And if you insult the intelligence of your audience by assuming that they don’t know basic rules (that are too frequently ignored by AEW officials) you lose credibility.

Because it’s live tv we can see it and wonder what exactly the purpose of Rick Knox even is. Having an announcer validate that you’re not crazy the referee just isn’t doing his job is actually refreshing.

 

As @Matt Dtried to say already, if TK is fine with the rules being flouted, then that’s how it goes and I guess what you assume are the rules are not.  If the company allows triple teaming, and then JR shits on the triple BTE trigger, as he did a few weeks ago, then he’s the one who is wrong.  If Ross dislikes the way AEW presents wrestling, he needs to talk to TK, because shitting on it on commentary is counterproductive.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do like JR's sit-down interviews a lot.  He's really good at coming off as a reporter asking hard questions in those.  His crankiness works for him in that setting.

I was watching those really good Hangman youtube videos and there's a sit-down with the Bucks and Hangman/Omega where Ross is great at calling out little asides and looks that guys are giving.  You really felt like he brought something out of them in that interview.  It wasn't just the usual backstage person asking a question and then holding the mic while stuff goes on.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ex and Taz would be the best combo with Tony doing interviews and other duties.  Some folks don't like Ex but to me he is really good, he has the most knowledge of the current group of young wrestlers.  

Part of me believes has Jr's wife not died so unfortunately he would probably be off in retirement.  He can contribute to AEW. His sit down interview skills are still there and his voice for big matches are always welcome. I would think getting JR to call a title match for you is a worthy goal. 

And yeah - between Punk and Danielson being both energized and with some many dancing partners we are just blessed. In WWE, we would be on Omega-Danielson part 7 (with tags, three-man tags) - heck now it might be a full year until we get the sequel which may make it even a bigger event. Very different style

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

Tony Schiavone's unabashed enthusiasm and astonishment for the product during the match is the most endearing thing about AEW commentary. 

I think he had that in the early days of WCW, but then he became /had to become n over-the-top face announcer and then an unabashed shill for some pretty poor product and that left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths. I've quite enjoyed the new Tony (except those midlife crisis earrings).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, JLowe said:

I think he had that in the early days of WCW, but then he became /had to become n over-the-top face announcer and then an unabashed shill for some pretty poor product and that left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths. I've quite enjoyed the new Tony (except those midlife crisis earrings).

The earrings are unique on him for sure - plus the extensive hair coloring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Matt D said:

I know people have argued about it for two years but now that I'm more regularly watching the program, JR is a massive, massive problem. He's the biggest problem in the company. Nothing even comes close. He loses his train of thought, can't remember words, gets people mixed up, then becomes overbearing to try to get some, any relevant idea in. There's too much about strategy which is either repetitive from match to match, just annoying common sense, or doesn't even bear out in the match. I'm not saying there isn't a place for him. But him announcing every match on Dynamite is a problem. It exposes him instead of protecting him.

Certainly he's not good per se, but he's going nowhere.  Our best option is to zone in on the hilarity.  And Jim's certainly funny.    

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

So I'm not as into the mind reading either. I don't think JR hates the product. I think he wants to be there. I think he wants to contribute. I think he doesn't need it to be mid-south. He wants to do his best.

I just don't think he's capable to do it at high level over a span of time anymore. Which might be even more insulting than what other people are saying, but that's my impression.

As for calling out the refs on camera? That does no one any good unless it's a specific story element of the match. If he thinks it's a problem, he should talk to Tony Khan off camera. It's his job to cover for that shit and to provide reasons, not to further expose it. Say that the action is moving too fast or that the heels are too tricky or that the ref, like any other normal human being is intimidated by the monster heel, etc. You don't bestow credibility on something by shitting on it. You do your job and lend your credibility to it. And if you have a problem doing your job because what's on screen, you take that up with your boss instead of doing the opposite of your job on live TV.

As much as I admire TK he's the one that all of the criticisms should be thrown at.  His lack of constructive criticism or direction for Jim is the real problem.  

I'm gonna throw into the hat that the best commentator in AEW hasn't even been mentioned - his name is Callis.  Don Callis!  Nobody's even close.  Jericho has shown flashes of potential, and certainly flashes of being unfit for the job.  Taz and Excalibur are fine, but both are inconsistent.  I've mostly come around on Ex, but his oversells are incredibly annoying.  Sometimes when he's breaking down stories he sounds like he's speaking to a kindergarten class.  Taz isn't exactly a strong orator, but he's fine, sometimes good.  I like Tony's enthusiasm, but I totally agree that he's a better asset as a interviewer.  So too Jim.  TK's clearly proven himself to be an excellent booker, but his intent on having voices eat up every second of the show is an issue.  3 man plus booths are clearly problematic.  I've well accepted the flaws of AEW's commentary, but I do find myself at times turning the volume very low as to try and concentrate passed the inane and constant jibberish.  I really hope some day Joey Styles has a much deserved return.  There's nobody since Lance Russell that could wield a microphone, or headset, like Joey.  I also have liked Ian Riccaboni from my little exposure to ROH.  I assume he may be available.  Clearly, there are differing views on Mauro Ranollo, but I for one am a huge fan, and would thank my lucky stars to have him replace anyone or all of the treaterous three.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The JR talking point gets tedious. There's merit there for sure for a lot of the complaints. But me personally I have only commentated two professional wrestling matches in my life. And with the exception of Goreman, no one else here has any real experience or knowledge to our opinions. We're just talking about what we like and what we don't like. I wish it was framed as such. I think people stating their opinions of what they like or don't like, instead of coming from a position of your opinion as fact, would help the discourse a bit.

JR is a hardworking and prideful guy. He's 70 and been overcoming a disability for 20 years now. It's not 100% fair to compare 70 year old slightly disabled and riddled with tragedy JR to young prime JR during his peak. It's not apples to apples. He adds value to AEW. He also makes mistakes and takes away value sometimes. Be open and honest with your opinions, but please can we dial it back and do it with a bit more respect? Whether current day JR is your cup of tea or not, he was the best play by play guy in the history of American wrestling at one point in time.

And to answer a few suggestion that have been floated, JR himself has said many times he wants to be a full time announcer or nothing at all. He hated being the one match at Wrestlemania guy. He is unwilling to "just work big matches" or "do the main events" or be "sit down interview guy". So it's a little like screaming into the void hoping for that outcome. He also has zero interest in producing commentary or being a part of the office or anything else. Lead play by play guy or nothing are the current potential options.

For the record, my opinion is that a Taz, Tony, Excalabur booth would be the best suited for this product. But my opinion is also JR was the best to ever do it at one point, and it's more important to the history of the business to let him go out on his own term than it is to force that change right this second. It wouldn't be such a drastic improvement that it's worth disrespecting a legend at the end of his career.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...