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Dynamite - 11/17/2021


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7 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Your comment about Joey Styles suggests you only remember his catchphrase.  Joey made bad matches so much better than they had any right to be. His balance of storytelling, move calling and emotion (also camp) was as perfect as has ever been in pro wrestling.  He was the star of their show and a very important reason those shows were and continue to be so much fun.  Of course, I’m not talking about the awful WWE network versions with careless music updates.  

 

No. I've been watching quite a bit of 1995 ECW lately and one of my strongest emotional reactions is wishing Joey Styles would shut the fuck up because he's hurting the show.

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I still don't see why so many of you get twisted up over JR. JR is the commentator that's going to bitch and moan about rules, breaking of said rules, and when things are ridiculous. I don't know, maybe it's because I watch just about every major sport and MMA, but every team has commentators like that. The only sport where that isn't as prevalent is baseball and even then the commentators bitch about balls, strikes, fair vs foul, the shift, etc. JR is no different than any of that. It's especially prevalent in MMA where do many shows you get every commentator complaining about the rules, reffing, and judging. 

My advice to you all is to maybe let this one go. He's not as bad as you all think, but he's certainly not as good as his prime. If you want to call him out when he says creepy shit then be my guest. I think that's more than fair game. 

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3 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I absolutely agree on JR's credibility to the average viewer.  That also means when he's burying elements of the product, and its performers (shitting on Yuta tripping because of his shoes; wonder how the EVP Bucks feel about that), he's reaching that same audience as a disservice to the company.  I agree the in ring performers should not bury the refs and sometimes do, but who's doing that as blatantly as Jim on commentary.  There's a difference between bending rules and 'comically blantant(ly)' breaking them in front of the ref.  I see the former plenty, but rarely see the latter.  It's mindboggling to me that Tony doesn't discuss Jim's shortcomings with him directly in a way that positively changes his work.  Regardless of the criticisms, Jim remains somewhat of an asset, but he'd certainly be a much better asset with some restrictions.

Yuta tripped and obviously botched a spot as a result. There’s not a lot you can do baby face falls on his face and blows a spot. Or do you just want no commentary for botched spots?

Also, I’d say the fact that you’re harping on JR’s commentary of it and not Yuta blowing a spot means he probably did Yuta a favor with the shoes excuse.

As far as rules go, you have a 10 count outside the ring before you’re supposed to get back in. This is frequently completely ignored in some matches. A couple of months ago the rule wasn’t enforced in the earlier matches, and then in the main event Cody lost to Black because he rushed into the ring to break the 10 count. The inconsistency of rule enforcement is maddening.

In AEW you have 10 seconds to exit the ring after a tag but in a lot of the matches this is disregarded to the flurry of spots they like to do.

I have lost count of how many times a manager or wrestler has hands on a wrestler in view of the referee.

 

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6 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

 

Call me crazy, but I'm not so sure this qualifies him as an uncouth douche...

This is an awkward joke, but it doesn't really read as a booster for Trump.  It's like a weak late night monologue joke.  I'm all for cancelling Styles if we can negotiate Colbert and Fallon being cancelled in there too.  

Or is Styles being a douche simply because he's a conservative?  I've never voted conservative, or PC (Canadian), nor do I see myself any time soon.  Needless to say, outside of McDonald Trump, I have a lot more tolerance for conflicting political views than the average vocal American or twitter user. I'm curious as to where the Trump-Hero talk comes from?  He doesn't seem to be involved in social media.  The only thing I've heard about his politics is Cornette blabbering on about his republican allegiance.  Did he contribute a large sum of money to his re-election campaign? 

I think he'd fit in nicely with Chris and Jake and Vickie and...

 

Vickie would surprise me, given how close she is with Nyla.

 

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Don West really grew on me as time went on.

I actually think once they settled on Tenay as the PBP guy, TNA had better commentary than they get credit for. Both the Tenay/West and Tenay/Taz teams were generally decent or better, except when they had to call the dumbest fucking shit.

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3 hours ago, Bryan said:

Yuta tripped and obviously botched a spot as a result. There’s not a lot you can do baby face falls on his face and blows a spot. Or do you just want no commentary for botched spots?

Also, I’d say the fact that you’re harping on JR’s commentary of it and not Yuta blowing a spot means he probably did Yuta a favor with the shoes excuse.

As far as rules go, you have a 10 count outside the ring before you’re supposed to get back in. This is frequently completely ignored in some matches. A couple of months ago the rule wasn’t enforced in the earlier matches, and then in the main event Cody lost to Black because he rushed into the ring to break the 10 count. The inconsistency of rule enforcement is maddening.

In AEW you have 10 seconds to exit the ring after a tag but in a lot of the matches this is disregarded to the flurry of spots they like to do.

I have lost count of how many times a manager or wrestler has hands on a wrestler in view of the referee.

 

I like the idea of an argument supporting JR drawing greater attention to misfires as a good thing.  The Yuta misfire in particular feels especially blatant and appropriate/inappropriate.  Jim did follow up on this 'no shoe' business - I believe he complained about it on this week's program.  

Complaining about 10 counts not being administered?  Has this not gone on in important matches for 20 plus years prior to AEW's formation?  Including the whole card in the 'let's loosen the 10 count to get a decisive winner' strategy doesn't feel like a problem let alone something to complain about.  Drawing attention to it, again, doesn't seem like its selling the sizzle, so to speak.  But I get it, to each their own.

Outside interference in front of the ref certainly happens, but seems infrequent enough that it sticks out like a sore thumb when it does.  I agree it's annoying when it happens.  It isn't a problem to me as a viewer, or most, why would it be to the guy getting paid?  Lastly, I'm not a JR hater.  Go back a few pages.  I'm the one suggesting not to resist and try and have a laugh.  If you need an extra boost in this direction have a listen to Tony's joyous JR reviews on the Deadlock Podcast.  Eg. how awesome was 'big on big! Good on good!' this week?

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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On 11/18/2021 at 8:08 AM, For Great Justice said:

Maybe Lio was managing an ESG portfolio this entire time. Leveraged buyouts on Myanmar gem mines all day.

I would absolutely love a Lio promo talking about how he and Dante meet sustainability benchmarking tools and develop a finisher called The Greenwashing.

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That was my first time watching Shida and Nyla Rose with any degree of concentration. I really liked that match a lot. It was really well laid out — that crazy chair bump, Shida getting some revenge on Vicki (still with the best wicked stepsister cackle in wrestling), and Nyla’s awesome gloating to the camera.

But I thought the match hit a high gear after Serena’s knee clip. I assumed that was what was going to end the match, but it then went into a really fun ending “can the baby face overcome these odds?” run, with Nyla missing that big splash. Then it had a very hurry submission ending playing off the knee damage. Really good story.

One thing AEW really does well is place some stakes that just add to the story. Beyond the tournament, they mentioned how Nyla was one behind Shida for most wins in promotion history (and Shida’s 50 wins was an angle), which sold it to me that they were longtime rivals. 

Also, JR sucks. 

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And I mention nearly every week how particularly dumb it is they just do not care about tag rules in tag matches.

A referee in a tag match is so incredibly important to the psychology of a match. Most importantly, a heel tag team outsmarting a ref us essentially the primary storytelling tool. Then that leads to hopefully later on in the match the faces outsmarting the heels but while also following the rules. 

The Revival in NXT were incredible at using the refs in their formula of matches. They had some of the all-time best heel nonsense - crawling under the length of the entire ring to pull the face off the apron before a tag could be made and the like.
 

But without that psychology in AEW matches, it does not work. I know the ending got botched because someone got their bell rung against the Lucha Brothers, but the ref not caring about the rules previously makes something like “heels try and play a hidden mask con” takes away from the hidden masks.
 

And the whole psychology also takes away from the impact of high spots. I would rather see one crazy Young Bucks spot than 200000 in a match. Because it makes the one look incredibly special. Refereeing that makes sense makes that happen.

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On 11/19/2021 at 9:28 PM, Jiji said:

I don't think there's ever been a colour commentator whose raw enthusiasm did more to get people over than Dan West. 

I don't remember who said it but he calls it like he doesn't even know it's a work lol his enthusiasm is a different level 

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AEW shared a clip on Instagram of Shida beating on Vickie during the Nyla match and I hadn’t really noticed how much the crowd was eating it up when I saw it on television. What a testament to both Vickie as a performer and the uniqueness of pro wrestling in general that all night at Full Gear the crowd popped for tributes to one of the most beloved wrestlers ever, and days later a likeminded audience was cheering for his widow to get destroyed with a cane. 

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I watched this finally on Saturday morning and thought it was just a great show top to bottom. And maybe it was because I was a little out of it from the booster shot I had the day before, but I didn't think JR was actually all that bad on this particular episode.

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