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AEW Dynamite - 8/18/2021


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15 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Legitimate UFC Heavyweight Champions who managed to defend their belts at least once, although Arlovski did so when the top 3 MMA Heavyweights were clearly fighting in PRIDE. Still, more legit than anyone on the AEW roster and JDS would be considered more legit than, say, Brock.

Didn't Junior beat Brock pretty convincingly for the UFC title?

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2 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said:

Didn't Junior beat Brock pretty convincingly for the UFC title?

That was Cain. Junior was suppose to fight Brock at UFC 131 in June 2011, but that's when Brock was diagnosed with Diverticulitis.

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5 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That was Cain. Junior was suppose to fight Brock at UFC 131 in June 2011, but that's when Brock was diagnosed with Diverticulitis.

Dos Santos opened as the betting favorite for that fight. Brock was coming off losing the championship to Cain Velasquez but JDS hadn't really ascended yet, he was coming off a win over Roy Nelson. Damn shame we never got to see it, although common sense says JDS would have roughed Brock up.

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3 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Dos Santos opened as the betting favorite for that fight. Brock was coming off losing the championship to Cain Velasquez but JDS hadn't really ascended yet, he was coming off a win over Roy Nelson. Damn shame we never got to see it, although common sense says JDS would have roughed Brock up.

I think it was already kinda penciled Junior was fighting for the title by then. I think it was already decided that Cain and Junior were the future of the division and especially after Cain dismantled Brock. Thing is we'll never know how much getting ill took out of Brock. That said...Cain was a horrendous matchup for Brock considering the NCAA D1 title he (Brock) won was when the division was not very good whereas Cain competed when it was very tough. Plus, Brock never took to striking and that was always going to be his achilles' heel. It's a good thing he competed when he did because there is no way he could have been champ with guys like Stipe, Ngannou, and Gane around. Hell, DC legit threw Josh Barnett around like a little child in a fight. He could have did the same thing to Brock. Brock got out at the right time. 

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16 hours ago, Zimbra said:

While the opening match was going on I was explaining to wife all about Sting and how he's a legend but he's in his sixties and half-crippled so she should watch how he avoids taking any bumps.  And like 30 seconds after that he got powerbombed through a table.  Once again I don't know shit.

Basically me explaining things to my little brother during Shawn Michaels' match at Summerslam 2002.

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I don't know who Dan Lambert is, and I don't know why he's there, or what this is supposed to be, or why I should care.

I mean yeah, I've seen him before on television, but....what?

 

Re: Women's Division

No more Shida (and her white pant suit) she had a full year run. Britt is doing good work right now, but I'm not sure how long it will last. I'd like to see a fresh face step up, or at least rise to prominence. Statlander is a good start, but I'd like to see two or three more at this point. Red Velvet wasn't it, and I don't care for Cargill.

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25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think it was already kinda penciled Junior was fighting for the title by then. I think it was already decided that Cain and Junior were the future of the division and especially after Cain dismantled Brock. Thing is we'll never know how much getting ill took out of Brock. That said...Cain was a horrendous matchup for Brock considering the NCAA D1 title he (Brock) won was when the division was not very good whereas Cain competed when it was very tough. Plus, Brock never took to striking and that was always going to be his achilles' heel. It's a good thing he competed when he did because there is no way he could have been champ with guys like Stipe, Ngannou, and Gane around. Hell, DC legit threw Josh Barnett around like a little child in a fight. He could have did the same thing to Brock. Brock got out at the right time. 

Brock winning that heavyweight title was one of the more unsung sporting miracles of the decade. Yes, some wrestling pedigree but to have spent 8 years in an essentially theatrical environment or pursuing NFL .. to then segue into becoming the heavyweight champion of the world in an environment with athletes who had dedicated their entire life to that endeavour .. a simply insane achievement. Yes wouldn't win the title in this climate, but frankly its utterly remarkable he ever won it to begin with. No real right or expectation to be in the ring with any of those guys really .. and I guess that reared its head the more and more he stayed there.

Edited by A_K
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4 hours ago, EVA said:

They’ve said in interviews that all their ratings analytics show that they hold their viewership through commercials better when they happen during a match. Picture-in-picture is not going anywhere.

I don't have a problem with picture in picture in theory. I have a problem with it in execution. A 2 hour wrestling show only being able to fit one match in complete without a commercial is a little strange. Just asking to tweak the structure a bit. Dont get rid of picture in picture. But can we at least scale it back to only half of the matches stretching out long enough to need a break? It's literally 5 out of 6 matches getting commercials in the middle consistently for at least the last 6 months. A strict rigid formula just gets old to me.

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re: PIP. i don't watch the show live and will exclusively look for a non-US airing. i don't miss a minute of wrestling.

meh showing to me. i have no problem with Omega and his matches are awesome. the Bucks are fine with their character stuff, but their matches jumped the shark months ago (even before the heel turn, although that certainly sped matters up) and i can't stand watching them in ring now.

solid Mox promo.

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35 minutes ago, A_K said:

Brock winning that heavyweight title was one of the more unsung sporting miracles of the decade. Yes, some wrestling pedigree but to have spent 8 years in an essentially theatrical environment or pursuing NFL .. to then segue into becoming the heavyweight champion of the world in an environment with athletes who had dedicated their entire life to that endeavour .. a simply insane achievement. Yes wouldn't win the title in this climate, but frankly its utterly remarkable he ever won it to begin with. No real right or expectation to be in the ring with any of those guys really .. and I guess that reared its head the more and more he stayed there.

Pretty much. He's a freak athlete who came in at the exact right time, which was when the sport still had remnants of the pre 2001 unified rules era. I mean think about it. Ten years ago, you could go a WHOLE fight card and not see people check leg kicks OR throw low kicks consistently. Why? Cause people simply didn't know how or refuse to do it. Now? You're seeing fights end due to leg kicks whether it's someone getting hurt on a check or TKO'd not being able to continued after getting their leg kicked into oblivion. That's happening on damn near every card now. 

I put Brock up there with Frank Shamrock and even Ronda. It's extremely hard to see them be champion in any other era than the one they competed in. I mean Ronda could have dominated the era 5 years before she started but there was legitimately only like 6 or 7 women who competed in and around her weight class (Tara Larosa, Roxy, Shayna, Gina Carano, Kelly Kobald, Miesha, and Julie Kedzie) on a regular basis. Once Amanda Nunes got it rolling, it was the end of her era.

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1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Multiple video game signs at last night's show. At least two Sephiroth disparaging signs (Kefka >>>>> Seph), Guilty Gear sign... Love this shit.

I saw “The worst Fire Emblem is better than the best Paper Mario” which is just goddamn bullshit and Thousand Year Door is a top five all time JRPG

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7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That was Cain. Junior was suppose to fight Brock at UFC 131 in June 2011, but that's when Brock was diagnosed with Diverticulitis.

Oh ok. Hence all the hubbub when Cain started wrestling. I stopped watching UFC when it went all legit. I liked it better when there was no weight classes and I could see 190 pound Don Frye fight some dude who was 6'5 and about 280lbs. 

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11 hours ago, Jiji said:

Multiple video game signs at last night's show. At least two Sephiroth disparaging signs (Kefka >>>>> Seph), Guilty Gear sign... Love this shit.

I love them all but worry at some point it'll get to a point where most of us go "Enough already!"  So until then I'm enjoying them for sure.  My favorite video game sign is a drawing of Omega in the style of Phoenix Wright.  He does his gun point and it has has his name instead of "Objection!"  It's so good they should find the artist and sell that on a t-shirt.

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6 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

Oh ok. Hence all the hubbub when Cain started wrestling. I stopped watching UFC when it went all legit. I liked it better when there was no weight classes and I could see 190 pound Don Frye fight some dude who was 6'5 and about 280lbs. 

The quality of the actual fights is 250% better than pre regulation days. Besides like KSW (a Polish MMA org with WWE level production on HGH) and random places in Eastern Europe, Brazil, and Asia, "freakshow" fights have pretty much aged out of MMA. Between regulatory bodies clamping down and promoters realizing they don't sell like they use to unless they have a big time local celeb (ex. world famous strongman Mariusz Pudzianowski in KSW), you hardly see them anymore. That and the aspect having known guys like Frye or Ken Shamrock or Royce Gracie doesn't exist anymore to make it seem fun. You take away the name value from those fights, and they're hot doo doo juice. When you actually watch great fights every other week, it makes those type of fights basically unwatchable.

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14 minutes ago, AxB said:

What was the last proper freakshow fight in UFC? CM Punk vs Mike Jackson?

Probably and even then, it's not like it was something like you wouldn't see on some low level MMA show somewhere. It was a guy with virtually no MMA experience against a part time fighter/full time journalist with some MMA experience. There was no weight disparity or anything that would just catch your eye as being bizarre. It was more fight that didn't belong in UFC than freakshow fight.

I think Couture vs. Toney was the last true freakshow fight in UFC.

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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The quality of the actual fights is 250% better than pre regulation days. 

I think this is actually a massive understatement but I get what you are saying. Go back and try to watch one of those early UFCs and you honestly might as well be watching a modern backyard fights youtube stream. I do understand the original poster's intention though - it was new, unexpected, and you could have those feel good underdog stories with the little man / big man. However, there is also a ton of nostalgia in that and the actual quality of fights was terrible. 

It means following the fights, which granted can be a chore given the amount of shows UFC puts on, but you still get those amazing underdog stories. Hell, we've got Brandon Moreno as FlyW champ and you can always look back at Bisping's brief reign. Somebody more knowledgeable than myself could probably put it in a wrestling context, but those moments >>>>>> random little guy beats random big guy.

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

I think Couture vs. Toney was the last true freakshow fight in UFC.

This was the first fight I thought of as well. Also though of Kimbo, but that's probably not fair as at least he was trained / training and was more novelty than freakshow if that makes sense. Certainly nowhere near as egregious as Japan during their mma boom when freakshow fights were dialed up to 11 ( which coincidentally, Toney - Couture would have slid in perfectly). 

I know I'm going way off-topic here but I caught a random 3 vs 3 Russian team fight org stream last week and it was the most manic thing I've seen in a long time. Six white guys, wearing white shorts and black shoes, all with shaved heads just punching each other until one team won, I guess? Curiosity turned to apathy by about the five second mark. Still tons of weird freakshow promotions out there (Fight Circus, The War, multiple bare knuckle orgs ) but none nearly as big as KSW. 

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5 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

I think this is actually a massive understatement but I get what you are saying. Go back and try to watch one of those early UFCs and you honestly might as well be watching a modern backyard fights youtube stream. I do understand the original poster's intention though - it was new, unexpected, and you could have those feel good underdog stories with the little man / big man. However, there is also a ton of nostalgia in that and the actual quality of fights was terrible. 

It means following the fights, which granted can be a chore given the amount of shows UFC puts on, but you still get those amazing underdog stories. Hell, we've got Brandon Moreno as FlyW champ and you can always look back at Bisping's brief reign. Somebody more knowledgeable than myself could probably put it in a wrestling context, but those moments >>>>>> random little guy beats random big guy.

This was the first fight I thought of as well. Also though of Kimbo, but that's probably not fair as at least he was trained / training and was more novelty than freakshow if that makes sense. Certainly nowhere near as egregious as Japan during their mma boom when freakshow fights were dialed up to 11 ( which coincidentally, Toney - Couture would have slid in perfectly). 

I know I'm going way off-topic here but I caught a random 3 vs 3 Russian team fight org stream last week and it was the most manic thing I've seen in a long time. Six white guys, wearing white shorts and black shoes, all with shaved heads just punching each other until one team won, I guess? Curiosity turned to apathy by about the five second mark. Still tons of weird freakshow promotions out there (Fight Circus, The War, multiple bare knuckle orgs ) but none nearly as big as KSW. 

By the time Kimbo got on TUF, it was clear he could actually fight a little. Was he some world beater? Obviously no. However, when it came to stuff like Kimbo vs. Dada 5000 right before Kimbo passed away, it was freak show fight not to due to anything he did or any qualities he was lacking. Although, you can argue he likely went into that fight w/ a pre existing heart condition and other ailments and should have never fought again. 

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On 8/19/2021 at 10:15 AM, Jiji said:

Shida's stuck farming wins on Dark while we get a 10 minute Show/QT segment. I get you often cool down people after a big run, but she's been ghosted from tv since dropping the title. 

I feel like Shida's year long run was sort of putting the division in a holding pattern with the injuries and the joshi women being stuck in Japan. Basically saying she's the best we've got lets put the belt on her until we can develop what we have. Since then Britt has surpassed her with promo ability and character work while being very good in ring, Thunder Rosa can make an agrument for being better as well, Stratlander has come back looking better than ever we have Riho and Serena Deeb. Plus the improving Penelope Ford, Tay Conti, Red Velvet, Jade Cargill, and Lela Herish. Anna Jay will be back as well. The plan worked but Shida might get lost in the shuffle.

What I'd love to see is as Britt slowly turns face have Shida slowly turn heel by becoming obsessed with getting the belt she was never able to defend in front of fans back. Let her get meaner and meaner eventually beating jobbers after she wins with the kendo stick, big boss man style

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