JANUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling

[Kev]

First time posting here after lurking for about 15 years (never been big on posting to message boards/social media but I spend enough time thinking about this stuff that I thought I may as well share)

Ended up watching two Rumbles - 2000 & 2010 - today as WWE has been posting some of the full matches on YouTube. Seemed like a tidy timeframe for comparison (sorry if this is wrong thread but didn’t think it was current enough for the rumble thread).

Firstly it’s nice to see the crowd for the 00 match being hot in the ‘right’ places, they actually like the faces and  for a relatively ‘smart’ crowd (MSG) even go with cheesy stuff like Too Cool dancing (assuming it hasn’t been edited too much). It’s just much more enjoyable to watch when the crowd actually seems to enjoy themselves, rather than having a feeling of  underlying hostility.

The shift to the more recent layout was noticeable, where you have a lot more guys coming in and getting some shine, running through their spots. I think my ideal would probably be somewhere in between. Some of the older matches could feel like you’d have nobody doing much for long stretches, but the shine spots can be a bit overdone in the more recent matches, e.g in the 10 match you have Carlito hitting 3 or 4 backstabbers in a row which feels pointless. In the 00 match Backlund comes in as the surprise and doesn’t even get a chicken wing spot, is kind of just there for a couple of minutes.

My main takeaway was basically how the Rumble highlights how stale WWE feels like it’s gotten over the years. In 2000 you’ve got 0 entrants that were in the 90 Rumble (Bossman was on the 90 card but not the match). There’s 4 repeat entrants from 00-10, plus HHH and M. Hardy who were on the 00 card. From 10-20 that rises to 8, plus there’s various guys on the card and it just generally felt like most of the guys were still around (plus 4 or 5 now in AEW).

I had other random thoughts (HBK’s dreadful acting, Show being on his 5th heel/face alignment after less than a year in the company, etc.) but I’ll leave it there as this feels long.

[Infinit]

Have we talked about this before?

Because we need to. 

 

[L_W_P]

42 minutes ago, Kev said:

First time posting here after lurking for about 15 years (never been big on posting to message boards/social media but I spend enough time thinking about this stuff that I thought I may as well share)

Ended up watching two Rumbles - 2000 & 2010 - today as WWE has been posting some of the full matches on YouTube. Seemed like a tidy timeframe for comparison (sorry if this is wrong thread but didn’t think it was current enough for the rumble thread).

Firstly it’s nice to see the crowd for the 00 match being hot in the ‘right’ places, they actually like the faces and  for a relatively ‘smart’ crowd (MSG) even go with cheesy stuff like Too Cool dancing (assuming it hasn’t been edited too much). It’s just much more enjoyable to watch when the crowd actually seems to enjoy themselves, rather than having a feeling of  underlying hostility.

The shift to the more recent layout was noticeable, where you have a lot more guys coming in and getting some shine, running through their spots. I think my ideal would probably be somewhere in between. Some of the older matches could feel like you’d have nobody doing much for long stretches, but the shine spots can be a bit overdone in the more recent matches, e.g in the 10 match you have Carlito hitting 3 or 4 backstabbers in a row which feels pointless. In the 00 match Backlund comes in as the surprise and doesn’t even get a chicken wing spot, is kind of just there for a couple of minutes.

My main takeaway was basically how the Rumble highlights how stale WWE feels like it’s gotten over the years. In 2000 you’ve got 0 entrants that were in the 90 Rumble (Bossman was on the 90 card but not the match). There’s 4 repeat entrants from 00-10, plus HHH and M. Hardy who were on the 00 card. From 10-20 that rises to 8, plus there’s various guys on the card and it just generally felt like most of the guys were still around (plus 4 or 5 now in AEW).

I had other random thoughts (HBK’s dreadful acting, Show being on his 5th heel/face alignment after less than a year in the company, etc.) but I’ll leave it there as this feels long.

I watched the 2008 Rumble and I was shocked at how sparse the "fresh man hits all his spots" shine was. It was really refreshing to not have every new entrant run down and hit their finisher 3-4 times.

Of course, there is a massive pop for Triple H at 29. Everyone thought he was winning it from there. Then #30 happened and it's probably the biggest smile I've had on my face watching wrestling since Mania last year.
 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I spent some time a week ago watching some of the early Rumbles and '92 we talk about all the time but it really was a game changer for the event.  There was so much added drama to it compared to previous events which were just kind of a fun thing to pass the time..   the stakes couldn't have been higher and obviously Heenan's call puts that aspect over like crazy  

Those mid 90's Rumbles with Michaels were embarrassingly bad.  The company really was knocking on death's door.  So many terrible gimmicks and non-factors.  

I don't think the Rumble got good again until '97 even with the shenanigans 

[StevieNippz]

6 hours ago, Infinit said:

Have we talked about this before?

Because we need to. 

 

I watched the trailer a year ago and the two minutes felt like three hours. I felt embarrassed for everyone involved in that movie.

[The Natural]

 

[Gordlow]

This might sound kind of strange, but I am really enjoying not knowing what's going on with Jay White right now. (in case you don't follow Japanese pro wrestling at all: He's doing an angle where he's leaving New Japan... but is it an angle?) I mean, sure, I have my suspicions, but I really don't know. There's even a slim chance he might show up at the Rumble...

I like this feeling. It used to be very common: Not knowing what was going to happen, so you'd have to wait to find out, then you'd get the "Oh!" moment when it happened. That moment might be a happy surprise, or a kind of disappointed feeling. 

I'm not on tenterhooks or anything, but it will be interesting to see what happens.

I like it. It's kind of nostalgic, feeling this way.

[The Natural]

34 minutes ago, El Gran Gordi said:

This might sound kind of strange, but I am really enjoying not knowing what's going on with Jay White right now. (in case you don't follow Japanese pro wrestling at all: He's doing an angle where he's leaving New Japan... but is it an angle?) I mean, sure, I have my suspicions, but I really don't know. There's even a slim chance he might show up at the Rumble...

I like this feeling. It used to be very common: Not knowing what was going to happen, so you'd have to wait to find out, then you'd get the "Oh!" moment when it happened. That moment might be a happy surprise, or a kind of disappointed feeling. 

I'm not on tenterhooks or anything, but it will be interesting to see what happens.

I like it. It's kind of nostalgic, feeling this way.

Nice not knowing, to be surprised. I think Jay White to WWE may happen at some point but not yet.

[Brandon Bones]

This’ll be random as fuck.

 

As the Booker of my sim league The ManchVegas Wrestling Federation.  Which you can watch on the YouTube’s.  
 

I’ve recently been promising the guys in the league a cross over event with AEW.  Already there have been 3-4 inter-promotional matches that I’ve used as padding up the midcard and planting seeds for a full Versus show proper.  The Main Event would obviously be our MVWF Champion Kyle Empire vs. AEW Champion Kenny Omega.  
 

In my feds history there have been numerous crossover events with current WWE, NXT, NJPW, NWA from 89/90, WWF 1990.  But they’ve been universally nontitle affairs.  Yet Omega is doing this Thanos collects all the infinity championships shit, that’s impossible to ignore.  Nobody is going to argue that Omega ain’t winning the IMPACT title after the PPV this weekend.

 

Meanwhile...

 

MVWF Champion Kyle Empire comes with a lot of baggage.  The once famous and popular tag team wrestler parlayed into plucky singles underdog has since winning the championship... withered on the vine.  He is also about to tie the record of most successful title defenses at 5.  Yet the closer he got to closing the gap the more success seemed to go to his head.  Entering matches in a limousine.  Or pouring cash onto the crowd in a booguie display of opulence.  It would seem character wise he and Omega have run parallel lives.  What’s going to happen here?

 

Omega will eventually challenge Ibushi.

 

And he will beat him.  For the belt.

 

Then he is going to come out on Dynamite, covered in gold and the best angle in wrestling and then challenge the WWE Champion.  An offer they can’t refuse.  
 

Why wouldn’t I want to be a part of that?  

[christopher.annino]

7 minutes ago, Brandon Bones said:

As the Booker of my sim league The ManchVegas Wrestling Federation...

 

Wow, Manch-Vegas is not a term I'd ever expect to hear on this board, but here we are. For those wondering, it's basically something only people from here in New Hampshire (and surrounding areas) call the city of Manchester, with not entirely obvious origins, some believe having to do with lots of illegal gambling happening in the city years ago. Certainly a lot better than Manchganistan, which seems to come from the spoiled yuppies in nearby towns like Bedford

[sabremike]

5 hours ago, The Natural said:

Nice not knowing, to be surprised. I think Jay White to WWE may happen at some point but not yet.

If you asked me what the single worst piece of career advice I could give him was "Signing with WWE" would be my instantaneous response.

[AxB]

They'd send him to NXT:UK anyway.

[Godfrey]

9 minutes ago, AxB said:

They'd send him to NXT:UK anyway.

That could be the best possible option, all things considered. Jay White and Walter, my guy? That's low key my new dream match now.

[nate]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:58 PM, nofuture said:

 

Huh.  Nice nod to Chyna there, calling the stadium in L.A. "the 10th wonder of the world."

[Ultimo Necro]

16 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I spent some time a week ago watching some of the early Rumbles and '92 we talk about all the time but it really was a game changer for the event.  There was so much added drama to it compared to previous events which were just kind of a fun thing to pass the time..   the stakes couldn't have been higher and obviously Heenan's call puts that aspect over like crazy  

Those mid 90's Rumbles with Michaels were embarrassingly bad.  The company really was knocking on death's door.  So many terrible gimmicks and non-factors.  

I don't think the Rumble got good again until '97 even with the shenanigans 

97 is under rated. It’s got Austin being Austin and doing incredible things for the most part. Jerry Lawler’s participation is also fantastic.

It probably holds the record for most Luchadores ever on a WWE show.  Apart from the Rumble match itself it’s one hell of a weird show.

[Fighting a man with a perm]

For those playing along with "what's the Arsenal stadium announcer playing at half time today" the answer is RVD's entrance theme. Fittingly the Arsenal score 5 minutes later courtesy of PEA, but he missed a great opportunity not to utilise the double thumb point at self on celebration. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

22 hours ago, Infinit said:

Have we talked about this before?

Because we need to. 

 

"And that's how I got beaten up by 20 marines..."
"Did I ever tell you about how I was in 9/11?"

[S.K.o.S.]

Wrestling crossword #4 is live.  Enjoyed some of the things I was able to put in this one; hearing that it's a tough solve, but I hope you give it a look anyway!

 

[AxB]

1 hour ago, S.K.o.S. said:

Wrestling crossword #4 is live.  Enjoyed some of the things I was able to put in this one; hearing that it's a tough solve, but I hope you give it a look anyway!

 

16:38. I'm getting worse.

[Peck]

brb.. crying.

 

[Curt McGirt]

Anybody have a video of that? 

[The Natural]

From the post WrestleMania XXXI RAW. 2015 was Brock Lesnar's best in ring year:

Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena vs. Seth Rollins. Royal Rumble 2015. *****.

Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns. WrestleMania XXXI. *****.

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker. SummerSlam 2015. ****1/2.

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker. Hell in a Cell 2015. ****1/2.

Edited January 19, 2021 by The Natural

[Kev]

Agree with the sentiment on Brock. I know he has his critics but I’d largely put the issues down to poor booking (although no doubt he’s been going through the motions at times). He still has an aura that nobody really comes close to, can make someone look good with a bump or two (and is a great bumper), and doesn’t seem to have a problem doing jobs. I’d argue almost every job he’s done since his return has been a mistake in hindsight (a combo of poor follow-up, bad timing, or just simply the wrong guy).

His momentum in 2014/15 coming off the streak ender and Cena squash was really wasted. I’d have given him the dominant title run for a year/year and a half before putting someone over (clean) at Summerslam or Mania. My choice would be Cesaro (I’m not sure any of the Shield guys really needed that kind of big win to be solidified as main eventers). They could have built a nice story with Cesaro having a parallel dominant run in the mid-card as a Heyman guy before he breaks out to challenge Brock after having Heyman favour Brock and try to duck the match.

[AxB]

So I'm catching up on AEW Dungeons and Dragons, and towards the end of the last session they meet a Goliath. As Brandon Cutler is describing what the Goliath looks like, he says "He's kind of like, what's his name, the Get These Hands guy", and Trent? says "Brown Strongman?".

Which might have been him using the board meme we had when Braun debuted on the main roster and we all got his name wrong for ages. Or a coincidence. Who knows?

[Craig H]

4 minutes ago, AxB said:

So I'm catching up on AEW Dungeons and Dragons, and towards the end of the last session they meet a Goliath. As Brandon Cutler is describing what the Goliath looks like, he says "He's kind of like, what's his name, the Get These Hands guy", and Trent? says "Brown Strongman?".

Which might have been him using the board meme we had when Braun debuted on the main roster and we all got his name wrong for ages. Or a coincidence. Who knows?

I like Trent even more now.