bink_winkleman Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, Jingus said: And I gotta laugh at all this "I'm sure now that Hero X will now subject Villain Y to Satisfying Death Z!" talk. Come on, guys. Have you SEEN this show? They don't do big heroic comeuppances. Even the had-it-coming deaths like those of Tywin and Joffrey were still calculated to leave you feeling cold and empty and almost sympathetic for the dying villain. Sheeyit, even Brienne finally getting her long-wished-for revenge on Stannis was handled in such a way that it didn't feel victorious or cathartic in the least. Every single time that the "heroes" rarely manage to "win", it's always deliberately undercut in some fashion to make us still feel like shit. Now see, that is my biggest concern with Martin's work there as a guide instead of material to be adapted. The last couple of episodes have had far too much heroic, in-the-knick-of-time saves and overall more television tropes than in the past, and I'm worried that that kind of stuff is going to translate into "big comeuppances" that probably won't occur in the books. I'm probably wrong, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, EVA said: Fortunately for JT, George has no pages, so he'll never have to be proven wrong. That works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 16 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said: Now see, that is my biggest concern with Martin's work there as a guide instead of material to be adapted. The last couple of episodes have had far too much heroic, in-the-knick-of-time saves and overall more television tropes than in the past, and I'm worried that that kind of stuff is going to translate into "big comeuppances" that probably won't occur in the books. I'm probably wrong, though. Yeah, I don't see a lot of that stuff happening in the books. I don't forsee most of that stuff happening. Sansa has never gone back to Winterfell in the books, so Brienne won't just be popping up to save her. Theon and his sister are stuck in a snow storm as hostages of Stannis and his army, so that entire plot can't happen. The Wildlings are pretty much in residence at Castle Black at the time of Jon's assassination, as well as a decent amount of Stannis' army. The Wildlings and the Watch don't bicker nearly as much as the Wildlings and Stannis' men. Jon's stabbing is for different reasons in the book. Stannis and most of his army are North of Winterfell preparing a siege of the castle. Brienne and Pod are in the Riverlands with The Brotherhood without Banners, and really have no reason to be in the North at all. The Dornish aren't even close to being the same characters on the show as they are on the show. Davos is out looking for Rickon, who I'm sure most of you guys have probably forgotten about. Jaime and Cersei haven't really talked much since he freed Tyrion, and Jaime basically left her to rot in jail when the Sparrows took her. Myrcella is still alive, and the Sand Snakes There is so much more stuff going on in Kings Landing, that I don't even understand how they're going to keep the political stuff interesting without it. Loras was never arrested, he led an attack on Dragonstone. Varys isn't in Mereen, and there is no evidence that he'll ever go. Balon died before Robb Stark. They've diverged from the books so far that I don't really think that they are going to end up telling the same story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 1 hour ago, J.T. said: That works both ways. There's always Brandon Sanderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 If he didn't intend to bring Jon back when he wrote the stabbing scene, he sure did waste a lot of words and pages seeing every piece in place to be able to make his resurrection logical and believable. GRRM moved all those chess pieces around to be there years before the show got ahead of him and delivered the resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 What was Roose Bolton's plan with Ramsey? I mean, the moment the maester announced the birth of his son, Roose knew it was a race: can he kill Ramsey before Ramsey kills the kid? Was Roose only just now dawning on the fact that Ramsey is an untrustable sociopath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 In the books, Roose expects Ramsey to kill any sons and, in fact, tacitly welcomes it. Roose may be smarter, but he's still a sick fuck in his own right. Apple from the tree, and all that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 hours ago, tigertooth said: What was Roose Bolton's plan with Ramsey? I mean, the moment the maester announced the birth of his son, Roose knew it was a race: can he kill Ramsey before Ramsey kills the kid? Was Roose only just now dawning on the fact that Ramsey is an untrustable sociopath? Roose seems, in the show, to to have believed he could exert some measure of control over Ramsay by withholding (and selectively granting) paternal approval, the one thing Ramsay shows signs of craving that isn't indulging his own sadistic impulses. And to be fair, through the previous 2 seasons, he was able to do this. He seems to have fatally underestimated how much protection this afforded him once another heir was born, though. In the show he came across more as "good cop" by default, exasperated with his son's excesses. In the books, it's a different matter (EVA's post is spot on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorneAgain Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Might be just be me, but I read Ramsay's kills as a somewhat spontaneous, almost a little desperate, hence the lack of his usual sadistic glee. Theon's actions late last season basically destroyed three personal symbols of what he was (devotion of Myranda, ownership of Sansa, total submission of Reek) in one fell swoop and all he immediately had left was his status as Bolton heir and there was no way in hell he was letting the existence of his new brother allow that to be taken away too. Its interesting because even in perilous situations he typically has his confidence, but here he seemed off, almost with self doubt creeping in at points. It wasn't Ramsay killing from a place of sadistic comfort as usual, more of a rash reaction followed by him quickly trying to collect himself and become "Lord Bolton" without his father to guide or help him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 There's no doubt in my mind that Martin was going to roll with Jon Snow's resurrection. What other option was out there... Everything was leading to it. I guess you can do another swerve but that's Russo territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 11 hours ago, J.T. said: So why don't we just wait until he finishes the book and find out what he intended and if what happens in the show happens in the next book, we will all have our confirmation. He very well could change his course based on fan reaction though, hasn't Martin done that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 4 hours ago, L_W_P said: Just going back a step, did Stannis really get killed off screen? Everything I've read says he is dead but last we saw him Brienne sentenced him to death and was winding up for the killing blow but we never saw it land. Seems bizarre that a show known for not holding back on the violence would have such a major character get killed off without showing it... Yeah, it's weird. That scene was shot and edited in such an odd way that I expected there was some kind of swerve coming. Stannis seemed distracted, appeared to be looking at something behind Brienne, and then we didn't actually see the coup de grace. Everything about that said "they were interrupted at the last second". But afterwards Brienne hasn't even mentioned it, and the Boltons seem to think Stannis is dead (although they don't know who killed him), so I guess they just made it weird and swervy for no fucking reason whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: He very well could change his course based on fan reaction though, hasn't Martin done that before? No, he's very clear on not doing that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 8 hours ago, Jingus said: Yeah, it's weird. That scene was shot and edited in such an odd way that I expected there was some kind of swerve coming. Stannis seemed distracted, appeared to be looking at something behind Brienne, and then we didn't actually see the coup de grace. Everything about that said "they were interrupted at the last second". But afterwards Brienne hasn't even mentioned it, and the Boltons seem to think Stannis is dead (although they don't know who killed him), so I guess they just made it weird and swervy for no fucking reason whatsoever. I think it was just a courtesy to George. Stannis probably dies in book 6 and they expected book 6 out before this season. I think they left it slightly open ended to give him a chance to tell it. Remember when one of George's friends was snapping on Twitter about the show spoiling Stannis' defeat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, Jrag said: I think it was just a courtesy to George. Stannis probably dies in book 6 and they expected book 6 out before this season. I think they left it slightly open ended to give him a chance to tell it. Remember when one of George's friends was snapping on Twitter about the show spoiling Stannis' defeat? I honestly don't think Stannis' endgame was spoiled at all. I don't think Stannis is going to live to the end, but I don't think he's losing that battle. The only thing George confirmed about Stannis' storyline last season was that Shireen would eventually burn. Shireen is at The Wall, and if Stannis was to lose the battle there would be no reason to burn her. The show has limited time to dedicate to everyone, so I think they just cut a lot of things short. Dorne, Sansa, Stannis, and all seem to be edited heavily to fit the show, but I don't think they have anything to do with what will happen in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 21 hours ago, Matt D said: There's always Brandon Sanderson. Or Cormac McCarthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Snow with no fucks to give is going to be awesome holy shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Nah. He's just gonna Snow Quest his way to Bran while Ramsay sacks the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Not sure how I feel about what they're probably going to do to Rickon and Osha, but hey we need more nihilism, it's been too bright this season. They're gonna cocktease us all season with what's in the Tower, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Damn you Max Von Sydow! I need more Tower of Joy and I needed it tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nofuture Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Raziel403 said: They're gonna cocktease us all season with what's in the Tower, aren't they? Pretty meta for them to pull the old "Eh, you're not quite ready to see this yet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Everything at the Watch looks like it's going to be gross and boring. Oh look, Sansa will show up right after Snow left and then Ramsay is gonna rape everybody. Assuming he hasn't Reeked himself with all the Osha rape he'll be doing. Can't wait. Boy that Tower of Joy tease was awesome, though. Pretty sure they'll wait for the trigger on that. Further south, it looks like we're going to get rid of the lame ass zealots just for more embarrassing sandsnake stuff. I really might have enjoyed it if the Mountain had killed everybody. Sort of looking forward to Littlefinger hopefully throwing a wrench in shit. And the inevitable dragon rescue. And Tyrion and Varys outsmarting everyone. I have no idea how they tell Sam's story in the time they have. Island shit should be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 On 5/2/2016 at 3:38 PM, MarcosLoura said: I'm sorry everyone...but...the North does not remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Davos pretty much telling Jon to deal with the idea of there being no afterlife by walking it off was fucking great. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Jon's just pissy that he spent five seasons growing out his beautiful hair only for Melisandre to snip it off in one shot. I do like how the haircut, plus Jon removing the Night's Watch gear to reveal his original gear, essentially reverted him to pre-Night's Watch Jon on the way out. I've got a bad feeling Missandei is involved with the Sons of the Harpy somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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