Niners Fan in CT Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Speak for yourself, Jingus. I was more than satisfied with Olly's hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 By the end of Season 1 my expectations for Dany and her place in the story were set. She has always seemed safe to me because of her sheer power. I think Jon joined that "too important to kill" group around the time of the first White Walker attack. Was that the end of season 2? When you are the only main character at the most important location on the map it's sort of a giveaway. I had read the books by then though, so I'm sure that changed my opinion. Kit Harrington wasn't as good as a chunk of the cast at that time, but I think he has improved a ton over the years. Between Ned's memories, the parentage mystery and all of Jon's dreams, the books were pretty clear on Jon's place in the story I still worry about Tyrion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 45 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Speak for yourself, Jingus. I was more than satisfied with Olly's hanging. Yeah, that was about as satisfying as it could get. Much better to see that little shit turn blue, than if he had gotten stabbed while Jon wails at the heavens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Bran being heard in the past was an interesting development. I think the Tower of Joy scene was pretty fucking awesome for the most part. I wish they had just kept it going, but I understand why they would drag out the ToJ scene over multiple episodes. I liked how the fight was booked. Ned was way too strong of a swordsman in the show, so it's nice to see them course correct. Jon's mic drop was legit. The hanging followed by complete disregard for the Lord Commander coat was interesting in a "maybe he isn't the same" way. I new the "watch has ended" line was coming in some shape or form. It's just too perfect of a loophole not to use. Still marked out for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 My phone lit up at the end so at least with the people I know they all seem to think this is a new Jon. I wasn't sure. Maybe he seemed more confident, more ruthless? Probably too early to tell. I felt the Jon stuff did overshadow the new developments with Bran. If he can speak to the past, that's a hell of a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 @supremebve How do you feel about the Umbers and the Karstarks and their I guess alliance with the Boltons? This isn't sitting well with a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Of all the scumbags on Game of Thrones, I'm surprised and almost mildly disgusted the way people are singling out and getting blood thirsty for Olly of all characters. Just for example, Littlefinger is pretty much single-handedly responsible for a lot of the misery and strife on the show, and yet no one gives a shit about him. For Olly, people were ready to throw a parade when he died or were going to riot if he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I wasn't massively thrilled to see Olly die, but I didn't have much of a problem with it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: @supremebve How do you feel about the Umbers and the Karstarks and their I guess alliance with the Boltons? This isn't sitting well with a lot of people. The Umber guy came off as false, but the Karstarks have been pretty shady since Robb took Arnolf's head. I think the biggest problem is that they cut out so much of what is going on in the North that none of it feels true to book readers. The Bolton's biggest issue in the books is that they are beset on all sides by people who hate their guts. There is a theory that their is a Great Northern Conspiracy where a bunch of Northern houses are plotting against the Boltons. With that said, the excuse the Umber guy gave about being the first defense against Wildlings is 100% true to the books. They are way up north, and they will be more affected by having the Wildlings south of The Wall than anyone else. The North is a bothersome situation on the show, because there is so much interesting stuff that they've cut out or changed almost everything. Ramsey is on screen probably 20x as much as he is in the books. He is terrible, but we only see him through Theon's eyes. It is more interesting to extrapolate everything he has done through the eyes of a broken Theon, than to actually see it on screen. Sansa never gets raped in the books, Rickon most likely won't be delivered to him, and all of Theon's torture is only discussed afterwards. He's actually absent for multiple books, and assumed dead until he comes back as Reek. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 It's sad that the show dropped a lot of the cool intricate politics and plotting from earlier seasons for simpler backstabbing and "shocking" deaths. Everything lacks gravitas and proper weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, supremebve said: The Umber guy came off as false, but the Karstarks have been pretty shady since Robb took Arnolf's head. I think the biggest problem is that they cut out so much of what is going on in the North that none of it feels true to book readers. The Bolton's biggest issue in the books is that they are beset on all sides by people who hate their guts. There is a theory that their is a Great Northern Conspiracy where a bunch of Northern houses are plotting against the Boltons. With that said, the excuse the Umber guy gave about being the first defense against Wildlings is 100% true to the books. They are way up north, and they will be more affected by having the Wildlings south of The Wall than anyone else. The North is a bothersome situation on the show, because there is so much interesting stuff that they've cut out or changed almost everything. Ramsey is on screen probably 20x as much as he is in the books. He is terrible, but we only see him through Theon's eyes. It is more interesting to extrapolate everything he has done through the eyes of a broken Theon, than to actually see it on screen. Sansa never gets raped in the books, Rickon most likely won't be delivered to him, and all of Theon's torture is only discussed afterwards. He's actually absent for multiple books, and assumed dead until he comes back as Reek. Houses Umber and Karstark are actually both divided into two factions in the books, and their Stark/Bolton support is split. Obviously the show can't convey this when each family is streamlined to one on-screen representative. Not that I'm complaining. Character bloat should be reined in and you can achieve the same effect by having the Northern Lords divided on a macro level. I would, however, like to point out that they kept an inferior Umber name "Smalljon" instead of going with the book's pro-Bolton Umber, whose epithet is "Whoresbane" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said: Houses Umber and Karstark are ALLEGEDLY both divided into two factions in the books, and their Stark/Bolton support is split. Obviously the show can't convey this when each family is streamlined to one on-screen representative. Not that I'm complaining. Character bloat should be reined in and you can achieve the same effect by having the Northern Lords divided on a macro level. I would, however, like to point out that they kept an inferior Umber name "Smalljon" instead of going with the book's pro-Bolton Umber, whose epithet is "Whoresbane" FTFY, the best part about where we left the North in the books is that there is no telling who is actually allied. The Umbers, Karstarks, Manderlys, Dustins, etc. are all clearly playing the game, we just don't actually know who is going to be allied where when it is all said and done. All of them seem to have a lot to gain/lose no matter where they place their allegiance. The Karstarks could go either way, because there is bad blood from Robb beheading Rickard(I know I called him Arnolf above, but it was Rickard), but if Stannis takes Winterfell Arnolf is the most logical person who would take the castle.(Karstarks share an ancestor with the Starks. With Bran and Rickon assumed dead and Sansa and Arya missing, he'd be the next in line.) The Umbers and Manderlys lost people at the Red Wedding, and there is a very good chance that they haven't forgiven Roose Bolton and/or the Freys. Another crazy thing is that they cut out the "Ghost of Winterfell" plot. When everyone goes to Winterfell for Ramsey and "Arya's" wedding, there are multiple murders of Frey and Bolton loyalists. There is a huge snowstorm so basically every Northern lord of note is there, and there is plenty of accusations and infighting that is quickly escalating. So in the books, basically all of the North is stuck in Winterfell, Roose, Ramsey and the Freys are clearly on one side, and everyone else has a reason to be against them. Oh, there is also a group of Wildlings running around doing God knows what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Yet all this is meaningless against the army of White Walkers, which no one believes or cares about yet except for the Watch. Don't see how they can align against such a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: Yet all this is meaningless against the army of White Walkers, which no one believes or cares about yet except for the Watch. Don't see how they can align against such a threat. There is a guy I want to tell you about, who died for the sins of Westeros and came back to take them to the promised land. Other than the Boltons/Freys I don't know if any of the Northern/Riverlands lords are going to deny him. There are so many things they left out I don't know how the show is going to handle this, but there are some legit reasons for them not to embrace him. He's a bastard, he's could be seen as a deserter, and he was just dead. P.S. Apparently George posted a new chapter today, and essentially no one in it is on the show. The show is clearly playing by a completely different outline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 8 hours ago, L_W_P said: I feel like they could have done a whole lot more over the descision to hang Ollie. You could argue that he was a kid following orders, that he was keeping to the oath and that he was doing his sworn duty. On the flip side he was basically second in line for the "Fuck Jon" parade and blatantly set Jon up to be killed. Scumbag move, especially for a kid. Was he brainwashed or was he evil? Was he 'doing the right thing' or was he doing what he was told? I felt like there was alot more character stuff they could do there with Jon not being 100% for hanging him. It would have made a nice parallel with Robb killing Karstark. His parents were kind and innocent farmers. His father seemed to be a good dude who wasn't cruel or mean and loved and respected his family. They were freaking butchered by Thenn cannibals. As a result, he had nowhere to go but take up with the Watch. He clearly wasn't evil. He was a young impressionable kid who did what he thought was right by him against the people he sees as the animals who butchered his family. Look at the people Jon Snow has killed on his own journey. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 He killed Ygritte, man, that kid has been marked for death for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, elizium said: He killed Ygritte, man, that kid has been marked for death for 2 years. Ygritte was hardly a choir girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Olly would have grown up to be a cunt like Alistair. Killing him now prevented future bullshit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 25 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: Ygritte was hardly a choir girl. Mmmmmm....yeah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Craig H said: Olly would have grown up to be a cunt like Alistair. Killing him now prevented future bullshit. Thorne? You mean like helping defend Castle Black against this insane attack of crazy, blood thirsty cannibals and giants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Let's not act like the Nights Watch are all a bunch of boy scouts. About the only thing they weren't were cannibals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 27 minutes ago, Craig H said: Let's not act like the Nights Watch are all a bunch of boy scouts. About the only thing they weren't were cannibals. Which kinda...you know... is important since that's the group of people that tried to viciously attack them. Anyway, the Night's Watch is basically a glorified grown up version of the Boy Scouts anyway. So if one of those oaths is not to engage with women and one of their men is pussy whipped, that kinda does put them in an odd predicament. Without Ygritte and Jon's unstated bond with Tormund, there is no genesis for Thorne and company turning on Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Actually the vows specify that one can't father children not really engage with women. "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. Also I never understood why people hate Olly so much, he's a kid who had his family and friends butchered in front of him and then a giant bald freak said he's gonna eat his mommy and daddy. That leaves some marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I would say taking a wife = engaging with women unless people are doing it quite differently now. Also, people are expecting a lot of young boys. You're probably not going to get a bunch of rational decisions from someone that age, but to him, he had just cause for aiding in Jon's death. If he knew some crazy magic lady was going to bring Jon back, he probably would have not done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Well, he's learned his lesson now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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