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Games of Thrones Unsullied thread


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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It must have been going bad if they decided "nah, we're good." 

Honestly, I think they set it too far in the past.  There would be Starks, but none of the other houses we've come to care about would matter at all.  They might be able to do the Lann the Clever story when the first Lannister cons the Casterly's out of Casterly Rock.  But there wouldn't be any Targaryens, or Baratheons in Westeros for thousands of years.  The Tullys and Tyrells were minor houses at that point.  The Arryns don't take power for about 2000 years after the show is set.  The entire Rhoynish ethnic group doesn't make it to Westeros for about 7,000 years after the show would take place.  The Greyjoys may be around, but they don't really come into power until after Aegon's Conquest.  So, sure we get to visit the world again, but not really.  

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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Honestly, I think they set it too far in the past.  There would be Starks, but none of the other houses we've come to care about would matter at all.  They might be able to do the Lann the Clever story when the first Lannister cons the Casterly's out of Casterly Rock.  But there wouldn't be any Targaryens, or Baratheons in Westeros for thousands of years.  The Tullys and Tyrells were minor houses at that point.  The Arryns don't take power for about 2000 years after the show is set.  The entire Rhoynish ethnic group doesn't make it to Westeros for about 7,000 years after the show would take place.  The Greyjoys may be around, but they don't really come into power until after Aegon's Conquest.  So, sure we get to visit the world again, but not really.  

You're probably right.   Not that the show couldn't be entertaining because of course it could be entertaining.  However, it's still a business and the general public wants to invest time in the things they know so they will go with House of the Dragons instead and it'll look cool and look familiar etc.. 

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The reason you can't do a series about White Walkers and the Long Night, Game of Thrones basically butchered the White Walkers and made them absolute trash. The Long Winter was trash. The whole conflict the show had built up for eight seasons was absolute useless trash. The White Walkers were cake. The Night King was a pushover. They've been ruined for all time.

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6 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

The reason you can't do a series about White Walkers and the Long Night, Game of Thrones basically butchered the White Walkers and made them absolute trash. The Long Winter was trash. The whole conflict the show had built up for eight seasons was absolute useless trash. The White Walkers were cake. The Night King was a pushover. They've been ruined for all time.

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All power to the Twitter mob and everything, but I see everyone acting so angry and outraged over David Benioff and DB Weiss on Twitter like they should be in jail or some such. When all these same fans probably ate up their product for years. Like I see all these reactions "how could they do this?! How could they ruin Martin's work? How could they forsake fantasy genre and material?"

Well, I mean it worked didn't it? The Twitter outrage is condemning them for their instincts and decisions when pretty much every decision you now in hindsight loathed that they voiced at that AFF panel paid off. No one other than book fans really had these complaints for years. 

So, which one is it?   

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14 hours ago, supremebve said:

So, which one is it?   

I thought the last two seasons were easily hot garbage, especially what happened to Little Finger. It's the epitome of Benioff's terrible screenwriting going back to disappointments like Troy and X-Men Origins Wolverine, which is the worst Wolverine movie. 

But from an outsider's standpoint, what Benioff and Weiss did as far as dialing down the fantasy elements and making it more appealing to soccer moms and NFL players generally worked. The show was a cultural phenomenon. It was an overrated cultural phenomenon nonetheless, but it still was a runaway success and got them a huge payday from Netflix not to mention tons of awards. I simply think its a little hypocritical for the same fans who went gaga over the show until the last two seasons or so to now turn on them all of the sudden now that they know how the sausage is made. 

Like people are genuinely angry that they let the actors performances sort of define the characters rather than their own writing. Why are people upset about that? For years all I could hear about is how much people are falling in love with and basically idolizing a lot of these characters from Arya to Daenerys, Davos, Theon, Tyrion, etc. I think there's plenty to dislike about the show, but that seems like it was a  smart move from the perspective of the fans of the show if the answer was it gave the audience appealing characters they fell in love with. 

I always thought the writing for the show was flawed. But amazing production values and some admittedly strong acting elevated the series and got people to overlook the problems until it got to the end and they had to wrap this up. 

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They are getting rich and respected on the back of work GRRM did, and work the cast did, and a lot of what they did contribute (like not doing Lady Stoneheart, and Grand Maester Marwyn not existing) made the story worse, not better. Castigation is their just desserts.

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16 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Are they to blame for killing off Ser Barristan Selmy too? 

100% that might have been my tipping point.  That is when I stopped defending the mishaps and started wondering if these people understood the story they were telling.  Barristan getting killed by a bunch of noname randos is about as nonsensical of a death in any show/movie/book/play/telenovela/puppet show/kabuki theater...

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:04 AM, TheVileOne said:

. The Night King was a pushover.

It took one of the best assassins on the planet to get the drop on him and lots of people died providing the distraction that gave that person the opportunity to make the strike.

The time lapse devoted to the war wasn't as long as I'd have like it to have been, but I wouldn't say the White King was a pushover.  I just think that the event crunch killed the gravitas of the moment.

Edited by J.T.
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3 minutes ago, J.T. said:

It took one of the best assassins on the planet to get the drop on him and lots of people died providing the distraction that gave that person the opportunity to make the strike.

The time lapse devoted to the war wasn't as long as I'd have like it to have been, but I wouldn't say the White King was a pushover.  I just think that the event crunch killed the gravitas of the moment.

I've heard the Arya killing the Night's King criticism and I honestly don't understand how anyone who watched the show feels that way.  Arya is pretty much the most deadly person on the entire show by the end, who else in the entire show was better equipped to kill him?  Seriously, Jon was the leader that they needed, but he wasn't a killer.  Arya was the killer, it was her job to clean his ass up.

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Arya singlehandedly wiped out an entire House, which happened to be one of the largest in Westeros.  Yeah, her beating a zombie after a ton of other stuff going on and her barely getting there as is doesn't make the Night King a pushover.

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The problem is that just moments before Arya killed the Night King she was on the verge of tears, visibly shaken, and running scared throughout the stronghold. She put on a good show at first and then completely lost it. Then all of a sudden she infiltrates all of the other white walkers standing around the Night King, not a single one of them stops her, she's caught by the throat by the Night King and his grasp doesn't kill or even burn or hurt her, and then he's dead after getting combat tricked. 

This, after showing how cunning, capable, and deadly the white walkers and the Night King were and after playing up how there would be some sort of a battle between Jon and the Night King. I'm almost ok with us not getting that fight because none of the other white walkers would let that happen anyway and the Night King probably wouldn't be like, sure, I'll give you a fair fight. It's just that the way it ended smacked of the writers backing themselves into a corner and hand waving all of that away by going, well, how about Arya leaps at him, the other walkers are uncharacteristically surprised and caught off guard, and then she pulls off a combat trick to kill the Night King with a stab. And then if anyone questioned that they just had no better way of getting themselves out of that corner.

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8 minutes ago, Craig H said:

The problem is that just moments before Arya killed the Night King she was on the verge of tears, visibly shaken, and running scared throughout the stronghold. She put on a good show at first and then completely lost it. Then all of a sudden she infiltrates all of the other white walkers standing around the Night King, not a single one of them stops her, she's caught by the throat by the Night King and his grasp doesn't kill or even burn or hurt her, and then he's dead after getting combat tricked. 

This, after showing how cunning, capable, and deadly the white walkers and the Night King were and after playing up how there would be some sort of a battle between Jon and the Night King. I'm almost ok with us not getting that fight because none of the other white walkers would let that happen anyway and the Night King probably wouldn't be like, sure, I'll give you a fair fight. It's just that the way it ended smacked of the writers backing themselves into a corner and hand waving all of that away by going, well, how about Arya leaps at him, the other walkers are uncharacteristically surprised and caught off guard, and then she pulls off a combat trick to kill the Night King with a stab. And then if anyone questioned that they just had no better way of getting themselves out of that corner.

I couldn't disagree more.  The scariest thing about the Wights is that they are a pretty much a horde of unfeeling zombies that will not be satisfied until they extinguish all life in their path.  There is a reason she's on the verge of tears, visibly shaken, and running scared...she's surrounded by more of them than she could possibly kill before they overwhelmed her.  She didn't infiltrate the Others, she ran in and attacked them as they were trying to kill her paralyzed little brother.  At that point, why would The Others be on the look out for a flying teenager with a knife?  They pretty much just walked through and killed everyone in their path on the way to the God's Wood.  They won, they murdered their way through the castle, put a fucking ice dragon in front of the entrance to the God's Wood.  So, Arya, who knows the Night King's goal, who knows Winterfell like the back of her hand, who trained for years to kill people who were physically larger and more capable than her, get's the drop on someone who has no reason to believe that anyone could be coming and kills him.  It makes perfect sense.  There is literally no other way that would make sense for him to be killed.  Is the army of the living supposed to kill the dead so dead that they stop coming back to life, then kill the dragon, and then kill the Others before they can kill a kid in a wheelchair?  Is Jon, who is more than capable, but not the most creative of fighters supposed to just come up with a plan to kill a dragon and then kill multiple Others before he can kill the Night's King before he can kill the kid just sitting there in the wheelchair?  No, the only way it could happen is if someone did something he didn't expect, and he didn't expect a flying girl with a knife to be a killing machine...except we all know that she's a killing machine.  What would be the point of Arya becoming a fucking world class assassin if she wasn't going to use those skills when they were needed most?  

With that said, if you want to argue about whether or not the Others having a single leader is the worst writing mistake in the entire series, I'd listen.

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/1/2019 at 10:42 AM, supremebve said:

100% that might have been my tipping point.  That is when I stopped defending the mishaps and started wondering if these people understood the story they were telling.  Barristan getting killed by a bunch of noname randos is about as nonsensical of a death in any show/movie/book/play/telenovela/puppet show/kabuki theater...

Ser Barristan, one of the most legendary knights ever, just wandering around in a city under siege with no armor or back-up. I thought that was f'n ridiculous too.

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/4/2020 at 2:45 PM, cwoy2j said:

Ser Barristan, one of the most legendary knights ever, just wandering around in a city under siege with no armor or back-up. I thought that was f'n ridiculous too.

Yeah, this was the same guy who without armor faced down the entire King's Guard warning the five of them that he could cut through them like butter and meant it. The idea that he'd be stupid enough to wander around in alleys without armor or backup is just silly. Leaving aside the stupidity, Selmy should have been able to take the Sons of the Harpy apart piece by piece. A bunch of no-names with daggers against the greatest swordsman who ever lived? Please. 

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5 hours ago, OSJ said:

Yeah, this was the same guy who without armor faced down the entire King's Guard warning the five of them that he could cut through them like butter and meant it. The idea that he'd be stupid enough to wander around in alleys without armor or backup is just silly. Leaving aside the stupidity, Selmy should have been able to take the Sons of the Harpy apart piece by piece. A bunch of no-names with daggers against the greatest swordsman who ever lived? Please. 

I guess the only plausible excuse there is that he had a longsword and was in an fairly enclosed area. Like Oberyn said to the Lannister guard he stabbed through the hand, "longsword? Bad choice of weapon for close quarters." But yeah, he should've cut through those idiots like a knife. Especially seeing as how Grey Worm was there too. I know he was hurt but he had pulled himself up enough to help Barristan a bit.

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I mean, to play devil's advocate if part of the book/show was about taking down certain fantasy tropes (see how being good and dumb is often rewarded) then the greatest swordsman in the land falling to a somewhat untrained mob because there's just too bloody many of them doesn't leap out as inconsistent.

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6 hours ago, username said:

I mean, to play devil's advocate if part of the book/show was about taking down certain fantasy tropes (see how being good and dumb is often rewarded) then the greatest swordsman in the land falling to a somewhat untrained mob because there's just too bloody many of them doesn't leap out as inconsistent.

That works to an extent but they also made the greatest swordsman in the land a moron for the sake of subverting a fantasy trope. Just tromping around a shit city unarmored without back-up where half of the population are assassins in disguise who hate you and your queen. That's out of character for a guy who's supposed to be as good and experienced of a warrior as Barristan was.

Edited by cwoy2j
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32 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

That works to an extent but they also made the greatest swordsman in the land a moron for the sake of subverting a fantasy trope. Just tromping around a shit city unarmored without back-up where half of the population are assassins in disguise who hate you and your queen. That's out of character for a guy who's supposed to be as good and experienced of a warrior as Barristan was.

Clearly, TV Ser Barristan didn't go to the Goblin Slayer school of strategizing on how to live through a fantasy world when you're not a high-level protagonist.

Short sword for battling in caves and closed spaces. Chain mail, light plating and leather armor. Buckler shield. A torch can also act as an improvised weapon.

Edited by TheVileOne
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/1/2019 at 10:13 AM, supremebve said:

I couldn't disagree more.  The scariest thing about the Wights is that they are a pretty much a horde of unfeeling zombies that will not be satisfied until they extinguish all life in their path.  There is a reason she's on the verge of tears, visibly shaken, and running scared...she's surrounded by more of them than she could possibly kill before they overwhelmed her.  She didn't infiltrate the Others, she ran in and attacked them as they were trying to kill her paralyzed little brother.  At that point, why would The Others be on the look out for a flying teenager with a knife?  They pretty much just walked through and killed everyone in their path on the way to the God's Wood.  They won, they murdered their way through the castle, put a fucking ice dragon in front of the entrance to the God's Wood.  So, Arya, who knows the Night King's goal, who knows Winterfell like the back of her hand, who trained for years to kill people who were physically larger and more capable than her, get's the drop on someone who has no reason to believe that anyone could be coming and kills him.  It makes perfect sense.  There is literally no other way that would make sense for him to be killed.  Is the army of the living supposed to kill the dead so dead that they stop coming back to life, then kill the dragon, and then kill the Others before they can kill a kid in a wheelchair?  Is Jon, who is more than capable, but not the most creative of fighters supposed to just come up with a plan to kill a dragon and then kill multiple Others before he can kill the Night's King before he can kill the kid just sitting there in the wheelchair?  No, the only way it could happen is if someone did something he didn't expect, and he didn't expect a flying girl with a knife to be a killing machine...except we all know that she's a killing machine.  What would be the point of Arya becoming a fucking world class assassin if she wasn't going to use those skills when they were needed most?  

With that said, if you want to argue about whether or not the Others having a single leader is the worst writing mistake in the entire series, I'd listen.

The Others having a single leader may not be entirely logical, but it is certainly understandable. The Night King has had fucking centuries to buy into his own hype. The dude falls hundreds of feet to the ground, bounces a couple of times and gets up none the worse for the experience. He has dragonfire blown at him at point-blank range and just laughs it off. Yeah, on some level he knows that Dragon glass or Valaryian steel can kill him, on the other hand he probably regards the danger the same way that I am concerned about hammerhead sharks.  I live in the high desert and we have the majority of the States of New Mexico and Texas between us and the nearest hammer-heads. It's real simple, I don't swim in the ocean and last time I checked the hammerheads weren't fond of the desert so the likelihood  of meeting up with  any seems pretty remote.

 

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