[MM16] WWE NOMINATIONS

[MORELOCK]

 

Takeover Brooklyn (which was his major turning point in my opinion) was in August which would be 6 months. 

 

Right. My point. No one would have talked up Corbin as this elite dude based off of one match. He's gotten really good since then but let's not forget what preceded it, either.

I will never understand many people.

 

He was being protected by working nothing but squash matches a year ago because he couldn't work. Now people are saying he's better than Rollins. It's a joke. Anyone arguing this is a joke.

[Greggulator]

 

 

Takeover Brooklyn (which was his major turning point in my opinion) was in August which would be 6 months. 

 

Right. My point. No one would have talked up Corbin as this elite dude based off of one match. He's gotten really good since then but let's not forget what preceded it, either.

I will never understand many people.

 

He was being protected by working nothing but squash matches a year ago because he couldn't work. Now people are saying he's better than Rollins. It's a joke. Anyone arguing this is a joke.

 

 

I should go back to rewatch Cena/Rollins and Rollins/Sting from NOC. I remember thinking they were really good matches. Rollins/Neville from Raw was one of the best TV matches in memory and it had two amazing near falls. The one after the Red Arrow might be the best near fall ever. It was so well done and clever and had the fans eating out of the palm of their hands.

I know a lot of people hate the WWE-style stuff but there's a difference between hating a style and not recognizing someone is good at the style.

A food reviewer who trashes a French restaurant because he hates French food really sucks at criticism.

[Goodear]

 

 

He was being protected by working nothing but squash matches a year ago because he couldn't work. Now people are saying he's better than Rollins. It's a joke. Anyone arguing this is a joke.

 

 

He was being established working squash matches and people assumed he couldn't work.  His first match with Neville when Corbin was in his jobber phase would demonstrate this to not be the case.  Regardless, the argument is not Rollins v. Corbin from the dawn of time but since WrestleMania of last year where Rollins was somewhat disappointing and Baron became a pleasant surprise.  Baron did a better job during this year.  That's the argument, no more and no less.

[odessasteps]

Takeover Brooklyn (which was his major turning point in my opinion) was in August which would be 6 months.

 

Right. My point. No one would have talked up Corbin as this elite dude based off of one match. He's gotten really good since then but let's not forget what preceded it, either.

I will never understand many people.

 

He was being protected by working nothing but squash matches a year ago because he couldn't work. Now people are saying he's better than Rollins. It's a joke. Anyone arguing this is a joke.

 

I should go back to rewatch Cena/Rollins and Rollins/Sting from NOC. I remember thinking they were really good matches. Rollins/Neville from Raw was one of the best TV matches in memory and it had two amazing near falls. The one after the Red Arrow might be the best near fall ever. It was so well done and clever and had the fans eating out of the palm of their hands.

I know a lot of people hate the WWE-style stuff but there's a difference between hating a style and not recognizing someone is good at the style.

A food reviewer who trashes a French restaurant because he hates French food really sucks at criticism.

[Goodear]

Would you think it was crazy if I told you I don't think Rollins is especially good at the WWE style?  I feel as though that style works best due to its tiering system where wrestler A is stronger than wrestler B but wrestler B is quicker or smarter or cheats more or whatever.  Rollins' best skills are neutered by his role and character.  He's not good at working on top and does his best going back-and-forth or working from underneath where his high spots could breathe more.  For being the World Champion, he's doesn't have over mid match stuff to fill time or get over near falls and WWE style is built around that for the most part.

[Matt D]

Really Gregg's argument only works if people have been strongly anti WWE Main Event style in the past, and that just hasn't been the case over the last many tournaments. Rollins does it poorly for reasons mentioned above. Brock's issues I've brought up, even to the point where things that felt fresh a few years ago are now dreadful and limiting, and Cena's responded to more of an indy, niche audience and wrestlers by introducing moves and slight structural changes that have deeply hurt his matches relative to years past. Cena's gotten much farther here than he would have gotten almost anywhere else over the years.

 

You can't dismiss the criticisms so easily. 

[The Man Known as Dan]

That's odd, I remember mostly everyone complaining about the constant Reigns vs ______ from League of Nations main events on RAW. I guess everyone secretly loved Sheamus as WWE Champion, too. Give me a break.

 

I wasn't crazy about it because how stale the idea was, but I would say I would much rather watch the average Sheamus match then an average Rollins match.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Also, I find this entire thing dumb. "Well what about us Rollins fans that want him in March Madness!" 

 

I'm a gigantic fan of Kane. If he doesn't get into March Madness, I'm going to be extremely upset!

 

I mean sure, Rollins can be in, I guess, but you guys are just gonna bitch when he goes out round 1 or 2 to some guy who you think is terrible anyway, so whats the point? Either way, you are gonna complain about his treatment. Were still hearing about Cesaro "screwing" Bryan 2 years ago when saying Cesaro had a better in ring year that year was a perfectly viable statement. You wanna whine, fine, just understand regardless of if he's in or not, you are gonna whine anyway.

[Casey]

I'm so glad there's a Block User function. You couldn't be more wrong in that entire post. On the flipside, you'll just bitch if he wins in Round 1 or 2 when he's paired against someone you think is amazing, and I fully expect you to come back with a reply stating that you won't do that because... I don't know, you're a superior poster or something? Who knows. Either way, I won't see it. Once again, the other side of the argument mocks and ridicules the other side. Hmm, interesting.

[GOTNW]

I have to say I've really enjoyed the debate on the last few pages. A lot of good arguments from both sides in a civilised conversation is nice for a change.

 

Once again, the other side of the argument mocks and ridicules the other side. Hmm, interesting.

This isn't something that actually happened. You know, you could just defend Rollins and his work instead of bitching about how no one likes you or whatever.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Hey, I got Blocked! Look Mom, I did it!

 

And, since you want me to be cliche: No, I won't bitch if he wins a first round match. Who the fuck has the time for that shit other then in a joking matter? And, once more, this is going to be an extremely weak field from the WWE side of things, so you are gonna have some coin flip guys, like Seth, that could get drawn against each other. Titus O'Neil won a 1st round matchup last year for gods sake. 2 years ago I was annoyed Emma got in but other then a couple joke posts, I didn't bitch constantly or anything.

 

Also, gotta love the "Look at how they mock and ridicule me for disagreeing with there opinion!" thing. Fucking adult, that.

 

Many have covered why they don't like Seth as a worker. He works as a chickenshit heel but doesn't wrestle like one. He had multiple matches this year with some guys that should have been hyped, but ended up letting down. Even the Cena match that a lot of people praise wasn't as good as Cena's stuff with Cesaro or Rusev (That Cena Rusev Raw match after the feud was over after Rusev almost killed himself to win that 3 way could legitimately have an argument for top 5 TV match from WWE in this period, btw). He had a really damn fun match with Sting, but that's when Seth actually wrestled something like he should have wrestled. The Ambrose feud was just not good and did nobody any favors, the Orton Mania match was kinda there, and etc. We are talking about a guy who, in spite of being given 40 minutes a show seemingly to get over, put on some pretty damn bad main events, some good TV matches here and there, but generally has a grand total of 0 MOTYC's.

 

Let's also acknowledge that Seth has to counter act just all of the bad shit Seth was involved with this year, which is a lot. His highs just do not cover for the lows imo.

[JCM]

I just watched that Rollins and Sting match, and it was fucking sad watching Sting kill himself taking stupid bumps for a guy that doesn't know how to work. Sting took a bump from one table to the other nearly braining himself on a monitor, a slam on the table, a falcon arrow, a sling blade, and two(because one just isn't enough for a 56 year old) buckle bombs, and Seth Rollins being the tremendous worker he is got a grand total of zero believable near falls out of any of that.

[SirSmUgly]

My big issue with the Sting match is that a gassed Rollins who had just lost one title in an eighteen-minute war should have gone to eye poke/rollup heavy offense.

I accept the Cena match right before it being worked like a PWG sprint because both guys wanted to show each other up. However, Rollins's style needed to change to logically fit the narrative of the Sting match, which was Cerebral Assassin Jr. trying to desperately hold onto his other title and prove as resourceful as his mentor against a fired up vet getting maybe his only shot at being WWE champ.

Instead, Rollins worked both matches in the same way.

[MORELOCK]

a guy that doesn't know how to work

 

And the hyperbole grows before our very eyes.

 

Dragon, your last point is the type of thing I'm referring to when I say that everyone is just burnt out on Rollins and The Authority angle and it colors perceptions - I don't believe for a second that Rollins is as bad as he's being made out to be by many in this thread, but him taking up a third of a stale three hour show for most of the year doesn't make anyone eager to see him.

[Craig H]

I just watched that Rollins and Sting match, and it was fucking sad watching Sting kill himself taking stupid bumps for a guy that doesn't know how to work.

 

So tell us, what is "knowing how to work?"

 

In fact, I see a lot of this bullshit. Someone says that Rollins doesn't do this, or he does this other thing and thing particular thing is not pro wrestling. What I don't see is evidence. WWE puts up tons of videos, so maybe one of you that is spouting off about Rollins' lack of workrate prowess could cite anything to support your claims. I think Matt D said something specific, which was nice, but the rest of you are just talking shit.

[The Man Known as Dan]

 

a guy that doesn't know how to work

 

And the hyperbole grows before our very eyes.

 

Dragon, your last point is the type of thing I'm referring to when I say that everyone is just burnt out on Rollins and The Authority angle and it colors perceptions - I don't believe for a second that Rollins is as bad as he's being made out to be by many in this thread, but him taking up a third of a stale three hour show for most of the year doesn't make anyone eager to see him.

 

 

I was not burnt out on Rollins at all in the Summer, when he was feuding with Ambrose when I was really wanting that feud to be something cool. They then had what might be the worst Ladder match I can remember the company having. The last 10 minutes were just total "Good Christ, will this fucking end" territory.

[Niners Fan in CT]

for the people saying Rollins moves have no meaning behind them I hope you will feel the same way when it's time to vote on Cena and his U.S. title run.  Cena's matches were far more egregious in my view.

[Jiji]

Yes.

[Matt D]

I think I've said as much, more or less. Guys like Rollins were the worst thing to ever happen to Cena.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I just watched that Rollins and Sting match, and it was fucking sad watching Sting kill himself taking stupid bumps for a guy that doesn't know how to work. Sting took a bump from one table to the other nearly braining himself on a monitor, a slam on the table, a falcon arrow, a sling blade, and two(because one just isn't enough for a 56 year old) buckle bombs, and Seth Rollins being the tremendous worker he is got a grand total of zero believable near falls out of any of that.

 

You know who came out of that match saying Rollins is one of the best he's ever worked with?  Sting! No, I'm not saying wrestlers are the best to judge but I do find it funny how you are saying Rollins can't work and felt sad for Sting when Sting himself felt the exact opposite.

[Craig H]

Yes. For all of the shitting people do on Rollins for that Sting match, Sting himself has sung Rollins' praises multiple times. That, and people blaming Rollins for ending Sting's career. Well, first, Sting wasn't wrestling many more matches because he's old as hell. Secondly, he went along with the turnbuckle powerbomb spot, a spot that hasn't ended the career's of anyone else Rollins has done that too. Does Joe get the same amount of shit for the freak accident that happened with Tyson? Not at all.

[Cristobal]

I love that we're not even halfway through February yet.

[Craig H]

I'm glad it's at least coming to a head now because it's been a year of this shit with people saying Rollins is such a terrible worker. It's the new "Chris Masters is a top 10 worker" type shit.

 

But that's what you get with varying tastes, I suppose.

[Cristobal]

If I were to pick a side, it would be the pro-Rollins one, just because that side's used a bit less hyperbole which stays closer to "he's a perfectly decent wrestler who's had his ups and downs this year," but honestly I can't for the life of me imagine myself putting as much effort as people are into touting him.

[Dewar]

Cesaro oveer Bryan was finally the year that Bryan actually was the guy deserving to win March Madess. People claiming that Cesaro was better than him still boggles the mind.

 

Seth should be in the final 64. Not sure if I pick him to win a bunch of matches, but a guy who holds the top title in the world for more than half the year should be in the big dance, no doubt.