Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

NOV WRESTLING DISCUSSION

RIPPA

By RIPPA
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

 Share

Recommended Posts

OSJ

OSJ

Posted
Posted

Not burning a strawman, but if we buy the argument that the Smackdown and RAW titles are equal, we've seen too many changes on free tv. Or, and I'm just thinking aloud here, maybe we've seen the various champions over-exposed in meaningless matches on free TV. The way Brock is being booked now makes it feel like he's something special. He's not on TV every week, but is usually referenced. Again, going back to the glory days of the NWA, you usually saw Flair on TV, but rarely in a match. He'd come out cut a promo for a house show and that would usually be that. When we did get to see him wrestle on TV there was a big deal feel to it.

In an era when there's really only one major fed, with hours and hours of tv time to fill, over-exposure is going to be a problem. I think John Cena is actually a fine performer, but I get really tired of seeing his face every time I watch WWE programming. The fact that Kane has been in the most matches on RAW is enough to make me nauseous, and they still trot him out every week. I know it isn't easy scripting an hour of tv once a week let alone 8 or 10 hours, whatever it is... Maybe the brand split was a good idea, maybe not but it was something different until the split became meaningless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Curt McGirt

Curt McGirt

Posted
Posted

To break the endless yammering about the pros and cons of the double-double E, I had a cool idea for a future Wrestler of the Day Theme Week:

 

Legit Shooters

 

And in the spirit of that, who were the best in that respect? You have guys who could do both and were great at either (Lou Thesz, Stu Hart), guys who were okay at one and better at the other (Ken Shamrock, Brock Lesnar), and guys who were piss-poor at both (Koji Kitao). Also it gives a chance for an Alexander Otsuka day which I think is in the best interest of everyone.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OSJ

OSJ

Posted
Posted

A very interesting thought, especially when you consider that prior to the belt going to Danno O'Mahoney, the World Champ generally WAS a shooter or at least a guy that could take care of himself if his opponent tried anything funny. Then you have the more recent era with the worked shoots and who can really say what was and wasn't legit? Yeah, some of the stuff is obviously worked, other matches I've watched a dozen times and come away with a different opinion after each viewing.

 

The only real problem with this idea is that a lot of the greats like Gotch, Hackenschmidt, Londos, Strangler, and so on have very limited footage available. There is some stuff, mostly old newsreel footage, but it is something...

 

Then you've got the gym shooters like August Sepp and my late friend Vic Short with literally no footage available. Vic was 80 when I met him (it was Halloween and I was wearing my Huracan Ramirez mask and this old guy at the bar says "You know, I wrestled him quite a few times..." Later he gave me a bunch of programs from his days wrestling in Mexico, but nothing was ever filmed. He was usually featured in the second from the top event often wrestling a Japanese guy, Sugi Saito. On one card he was actually billed over Gory Guerrero, which I thought was pretty cool. He said that Gory was one of the best he ever saw and that Black Shadow was nothing special. Nice guy, but nothing special in the ring.

 

Really neat guy, we used to pop into the Shanty tavern every afternoon at 3:30 and talk wrestling. He's have his one glass of red wine and then go home, he passed just after we moved from Seattle, but man, he had some stories about guys trying to stretch him because he was an Anglo. That usually ended badly for the other guy, he was a legit tough sonofabitch; not too many guys work as bouncers when in their 70s! But I digress, perhaps the best way to do this is come up with a short list of maybe fifty guys that were outstanding shooters and then we can start digging up footage. There's enough good stuff that we needn't subject anyone to Koji Kitao matches.

 

Thoughts?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Curt McGirt

Curt McGirt

Posted
Posted

There needs to be two qualifications for the theme week:

 

1. Wrestlers that worked in shoot/MMA organizations

 

2. Wrestlers we know could legit eat your ass alive at the drop of a dime

 

That makes it a little fairer to guys that might have bit the dirt at a shoot career but had great pro matches, like Akira Maeda. Or we could just do #2 and have MONDAY MENG!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnnyJ

JohnnyJ

Posted
Posted

There's a gigantic disconnect between what WWE thinks works and what fans actually want to see. This is made all the more frustrating by the fact that WWE has put together a unbelievable roster that just goes around in circles. Every once in a while something funny happens to break up the monotony (Ziggler cashing in, Yes movement. Pipe bomb, Nexus) but for the most part nothing really happens. It's just Cena on top, all the time in ultimately meaningless programs. And the audience has been begging for something different but WWE just wont give it to them. "You want something different? Here's Sheamus!! You like chanting Yes? Heres Big Show!!You want something different? Here's Roman!!"

Over the past few months I've reflected on the Yes Movement trying to figure out what exactly it was? How much of it was about Daniel Bryan? And how much was it about the audience reaching near riot levels over being endlessly screwed with?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Valcourt

Valcourt

Posted
Posted

As !ich as I love Dragon, I think your final question is answered by saying, "both." The fans do want something different and that's why they go nuts anytime someone new makes a slash. But, as long as Cena is making a mint in T-Shirts nothing is gonna change. Casual fans love them some Cena.

Speaking of which. I posted a pic in the Oct photo thread of me meeting Sami Zayn. Paige and Alicia Fox were with him as well as that new tattooed NXT trainee. A guy in a neon green Cena shirt walked past their group 3 times and never once gave them a second look. Now, obviously I'm more of a hardcore fan, but these casual Cena fans don't seem to be aware of the entire roster. This is probably a horrible point, but I think the WWE isn't putting out there stars like they did in the attitude era. Or, maybe since I'm in Tampa and randomly see Cena, Batista, Jericho and all sorts of Nxt workers I might not be the standard.

I'd love to go an episode without seeing Ambrose. Not because I don't want to see him, but I want to be excited to see him! They have an insane roster of talent AMD a horrid "creative" that doesn't know what to do with them...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted

I've never seen Jim Londos, but I read about him in one of Meltzer's bios, and so I wanted to see him. I just looked him up on Youtube to see him in a match against...NFL legend Bronko Nagurski? I didn't know that Nagurski had a wrestling career!

 

 

I really enjoyed this match, by the way. Loved Londos with that heel hold where he steps on Nagurski's other foot to hold him down. Also loved Nagurski kicking the crap out of the back of Londos's head to get out of an earlier heel hold. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cwoy2j

cwoy2j

Posted
Posted

There's a gigantic disconnect between what WWE thinks works and what fans actually want to see. This is made all the more frustrating by the fact that WWE has put together a unbelievable roster that just goes around in circles. Every once in a while something funny happens to break up the monotony (Ziggler cashing in, Yes movement. Pipe bomb, Nexus) but for the most part nothing really happens. It's just Cena on top, all the time in ultimately meaningless programs. And the audience has been begging for something different but WWE just wont give it to them. "You want something different? Here's Sheamus!! You like chanting Yes? Heres Big Show!!You want something different? Here's Roman!!"

Over the past few months I've reflected on the Yes Movement trying to figure out what exactly it was? How much of it was about Daniel Bryan? And how much was it about the audience reaching near riot levels over being endlessly screwed with?

 

That's a big beef of mine as well. Wrestling just seems like The Simpsons or Family Guy where it doesn't matter what crazy shenanigans happen b/c the next week, everyone is right back to doing the same thing they were doing the week before.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Big Fresh

Big Fresh

Posted
Posted

Ive been talking to a casual wrestling friend and he raised a question I want to put to the board - How would you feel if Punk came back and won the Rumble?

My first reaction was that id love it because it means Punk is back. I dont think he is OMGmegasuperawesome but id prefer him on my screen more weeks than not.

Then it hit me: If Punk was to come back I dont think it would be long term. He would win the Rumble and main event Mania bwfore leaving shortly after. He will have become the embodiment of the exact type of 'superstar' he has been supposedly protesting against.

He has been very public about the types of deals that Jericho and Batista got to come back so if Punk took that same deal how would he be recieved by the 'smart' fans chanting his name?

How would people on here see Punk?

Would you be happy he is back for a few big time matches or would it piss you off if he was only coming back for a Rumble to Mania payday before taking off again?

I've always found the whole "Punk hates part-timers" thing to be dirt sheet nonsense without much real evidence. He spoke one time about not liking when Rock came back at first (which seemed to be more about ignoring the boys/not shaking hands than beings part-timer) and he later recanted that even when Rock started being more affable backstage supposedly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MORELOCK

MORELOCK

Posted
Posted

Punk coming back as a part-timer would be fine, but it's a mistake to stack all of their part-timers at WrestleMania. They need to be spreading them out throughout the year to give the full-time people a chance to shine, especially on their flagship show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skelemania

Skelemania

Posted
Posted

Of course I would want him to come back, in any capacity. Same with Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar & Wade Barrett. If they're around more often, there's more people on the show for me to care about.

 

The pop when his music hit would own.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cristobal

Cristobal

Posted
Posted

Ive been talking to a casual wrestling friend and he raised a question I want to put to the board - How would you feel if Punk came back and won the Rumble?

My first reaction was that id love it because it means Punk is back. I dont think he is OMGmegasuperawesome but id prefer him on my screen more weeks than not.

Then it hit me: If Punk was to come back I dont think it would be long term. He would win the Rumble and main event Mania bwfore leaving shortly after. He will have become the embodiment of the exact type of 'superstar' he has been supposedly protesting against.

He has been very public about the types of deals that Jericho and Batista got to come back so if Punk took that same deal how would he be recieved by the 'smart' fans chanting his name?

How would people on here see Punk?

Would you be happy he is back for a few big time matches or would it piss you off if he was only coming back for a Rumble to Mania payday before taking off again?

...did you just turn on Punk for something he did in your hypothetical?

Anyway, I said this in I think last month's thread, but here it goes again: A motivated CM Punk is damn good. Right now, I don't think he's got any motivation to come back, so I don't think this happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StretchMediatedHypertrophy

StretchMediatedHypertrophy

Posted
Posted

Despite Austin stating that he regrets walking out on the company in 2002, he effectively never worked a proper match again (Two matches against Bischoff, and The Wrestlemania XIX match where The Rock carried him through). it is quite possibly the reason he isn't in a wheelchair. Punk's smart enough to have worked this out. Rumblings were that it was easier to name bodyparts that didn't have problems - most likely at least one doctor will have said that he should quit. 

 

My inkling is that he has moved on mentally and he'd rather get his arm broken by Ronda Rousey than wrestle in WWE again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MGFanJay

MGFanJay

Posted
Posted

Despite Austin stating that he regrets walking out on the company in 2002, he effectively never worked a proper match again (Two matches against Bischoff, and The Wrestlemania XIX match where The Rock carried him through). it is quite possibly the reason he isn't in a wheelchair. Punk's smart enough to have worked this out. Rumblings were that it was easier to name bodyparts that didn't have problems - most likely at least one doctor will have said that he should quit. 

 

My inkling is that he has moved on mentally and he'd rather get his arm broken by Ronda Rousey than wrestle in WWE again.

Dude came back from A BROKEN SKULL early to continue his career and not lose momentum. If he doesn't want to wrestle again, who can blame him? WWE used him very poorly for a while there at the end, and you could really see it in the Wyatt program where he's just stuck in the middle of this ridiculous bullshit, and for what? To feud with KANE!? Him leaving did more for his stock than staying would have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...