DMJ Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 So... The long-held "theory" is that Rey Mysterio got his first World Championship largely due to the death of Eddie Guerrero, but I've always had the feeling, as a relatively consistent viewer at the time, that Rey was actually being positioned for the big WrestleMania win as early as October/November 2005. For starters, Rey Mysterio had long been one of the most marketable, merch-friendly wrestlers in the company by this point. He was prominent on TV because of his consistency and ability to work with absolutely anybody, kids loved him no matter how many times he lost, and even older WWE generally held him in the same reverence as Eddie and Benoit in terms of in-ring ability. Second, if you look at that year's Rumble and the previous few WrestleManias, Vince was definitely trying to build up the credentials of various talents. In 2004, it was Eddie and Benoit (the latter swiftly finding himself back down the card because, truthfully, the charisma and marketability weren't there). In 05', it was Batista and Cena and Orton. In 06', I think Vince saw Edge and Mysterio as being guys who were on-the-brink of being legit main eventers who just needed that one big win to cement their status. In both cases, happenstance played a hand. For Edge, it was becoming the top heel in the business based on an off-screen affair. For Mysterio, it would be the death of Guerrero. But the seeds were planted for Edge's push when he won the Money in the Bank months before "LitaGate" and, for Mysterio, I think the seeds were planted in the summer of 2005, when the Mysterio/Eddie storyline was the most talked-about story in wrestling outside of Hogan's return. That storyline had touched a nerve in the fans and Vince saw $$$ in keeping Mysterio near the top of the card. So, has Bruce Pritchard or any other writer ever talked about whether Rey was pencilled in for a big push before Eddie's death? Watching back some of the PPVs (like No Mercy 2005, for example), I think there are some hints that he might've been getting the big Rumble win and the feel-good Mania win before Eddie passed away and am kinda peeved by fans thinking the only reason Rey, who sold a ton of merch, got great live reactions for years, had the respect of all his peers, and (if I'm not mistaken) was also somewhat of a TV draw, didn't "deserve" to be a World Champion. I mean, a year earlier, Chris Benoit won it and he probably brought in a fraction of the money that Mysterio did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 hour ago, DMJ said: So, has Bruce Pritchard or any other writer ever talked about whether Rey was pencilled in for a big push before Eddie's death? Watching back some of the PPVs (like No Mercy 2005, for example), I think there are some hints that he might've been getting the big Rumble win and the feel-good Mania win before Eddie passed away and am kinda peeved by fans thinking the only reason Rey, who sold a ton of merch, got great live reactions for years, had the respect of all his peers, and (if I'm not mistaken) was also somewhat of a TV draw, didn't "deserve" to be a World Champion. I mean, a year earlier, Chris Benoit won it and he probably brought in a fraction of the money that Mysterio did. Court Bauer said the Rumble was a 'week of' decision, between Rey & HHH. He said him, Bruce, and Patterson wanted Rey while everyone else wanted HHH to win but Pat's influence is what got Rey the win and Vince had to be convinced. Original WM 22 plans had Eddie vs Shawn Michaels, with Orton/Batista as the world title feud before Batista got hurt, so it's been assumed that Rey might have just been in MITB in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 I think all it takes is seeing the post Mania booking to see that wasn't the plan. In theory I could go with your premise. But the fact that the second he won the title he started losing all the time, doesn't really line up with the him being protected / lined up for a big push. It comes off as it was. Vince was begrudgingly pushed into the feel good story and in retaliation he booked Mysterio as way too much of an afterthought as a champion. I get that characters are different and Mysterio worked because he was always the underdog. Like just because Rey won they shouldn't have started booking him like Super Cena. But they went all the way the other way with it. He lost every single non title match he was in just about. That's not how you book someone you had meaningful plans for. It was the right call to put the title on Rey, he was ready. But the way it happened probably hurt his career more than it helped him. At least he got that second reign that lasted almost a whole episode of Raw during The Summer of Punk. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 I don't think booking Rey that way really hurt him that much, simply by that point in his career Rey was as bulletproof as a guy can get. It was only people on boards like this and the dirtsheets that really griped about it. Rey was the babyface of babyfaces, he could lose every non-tit;e match, still have the fan support that it wasn't going to hurt him as any kind of draw simply because he is Rey Mysterio Jr and people are always gonna love him. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Disagree. After years of struggle Rey climbed the mountain and became the world champion. And in doing so was booked as if he was at the bottom of the mountain, not the top. He was always a flashy underdog that didn't win every match. But he was never a jobber that lost every single match he wrestled. He went from flashy underdog to enhancement talent with a shiny accessory. That doesn't create intrigue. It makes Rey less valuable. It makes your title less valuable. And it makes the next champion less valuable when you win the title off of a guy on a 50 match losing streak. Who does that help? Now Rey was over before the title win, during the title win, and after. But that is irrelevant. It was poor booking with no positives for anyone involved. You're supposed to be creating stories that people want to see. No one wants to see likable flashy underdog who finally won the world champion, treated as unworthy of the big accomplishment he finally achieved. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 What’s the story with the Frank Frazetta-esque painting that hangs behind Lance Russell/Dave Brown in the Memphis studio? It’s a thing I’ve seen 1000x, but never really thought about until today. Did Lawler paint it? A fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 I had never heard of Frazetta before your mention of him. A quick Google and I realize his work would've been right at home on the sides of a '70's conversion van. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 When and how did "Something Express" become a standard template for tag team names? Were the Midnights and the Rock 'n' Rolls the innovators, or were there earlier examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Midnights were first by a year or two as they used that name in Southeastern when the team was Condrey, Rose and Austin, then the Rock n' Rolls were formed in Memphis, then when the Rock n' Rolls went to Mid-South, Watts was putting together a team to be the heel foils to the RnRs, with Dennis Condrey and Bobby Eaton, managed by Cornette, was thinking about names and Condrey suggested Midnight Express. I'm guessing they just used it because of the recent movie and because it sounded good. There was no Midnight Express in Memphis but I'm guessing Lawler and/or Jarrett had heard the name and named the Rock 'n Roll Express off the back of it. Then once you had the Express vs Express feud in Mid-South you started getting all the other expresses (and to a lesser extent, Rock 'n Roll/Rock named teams). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Fun Fact: the Pensacola MX did not use Chase or the theme from Midnight Express. They used Express by BT Express, due to the train whistle at the start. I believe it was JC's idea to use Chase, which had been the theme to the Poffos TV show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 One of them should have used "Train Kept A-Rollin". Any version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, odessasteps said: Fun Fact: the Pensacola MX did not use Chase or the theme from Midnight Express. They used Express by BT Express, due to the train whistle at the start. I believe it was JC's idea to use Chase, which had been the theme to the Poffos TV show. I would have figured they used "The Chase" as it was featured in the film "Midnight Express." Edited September 15, 2021 by Technico Support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 How many Expresses were there? Midnight Express (all versions) Rock 'n Roll Express Zambuie Express PYT Express Lightning Express Viet Cong Express Can-Am Express Orient Express Any others? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 All Night Express U.S. Express Also JC on the phenomenon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Is there a comp of the 5 or 10 best Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express matches that happened regional territories? Or has Jim maybe ever answered that question on a Podcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 9 hours ago, BloodyChamp said: Is there a comp of the 5 or 10 best Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express matches that happened regional territories? Or has Jim maybe ever answered that question on a Podcast? Start with 2/7/86 and 8/16/86 in Crockett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Jimbo_Tsuruta said: Start with 2/7/86 and 8/16/86 in Crockett. I mean I was curious if anybody had the matches they had in the territories narrowed down. WCCW, Midsouth, etc, excluding Crockett even though they had just as many good matches there. I know they had them every night in territories for periods of time and that they were all good. It seems like every time 1 pops up on WWE DVD or something it’s some kind of gimmicky blowoff match that wasn’t as good as their others. The matches in just Crockett seem to be narrowed down pretty good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 It feels like JC usually days their house show matches vs the RnR and Fantastics and even Garvin/Windham were better than most of their TV matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valcourt Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 9/15/2021 at 4:21 PM, Happ Hazzard said: How many Expresses were there? Midnight Express (all versions) Rock 'n Roll Express Zambuie Express PYT Express Lightning Express Viet Cong Express Can-Am Express Orient Express Any others? Heartbreak Express in FIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 9/15/2021 at 4:21 PM, Happ Hazzard said: How many Expresses were there? Midnight Express (all versions) Rock 'n Roll Express Zambuie Express PYT Express Lightning Express Viet Cong Express Can-Am Express Orient Express Any others? Are we talking before some specific date? Because Jurassic Express are keeping the tradition alive, and I'm sure there's lots more out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 (edited) There's also the Rock 'n' Roll RPMs. I guess that's more a Fantastics/Fabulous Ones/Heavenly Bodies/etc. conversation though. Edited September 18, 2021 by Curt McGirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister TV Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 9/15/2021 at 1:21 PM, Happ Hazzard said: How many Expresses were there? Midnight Express (all versions) Rock 'n Roll Express Zambuie Express PYT Express Lightning Express Viet Cong Express Can-Am Express Orient Express Any others? The U.S. Express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Northstar Express (Darin Corbin/Ryan Cruz) Weren't Vic Steamboat and...Joe Savoldi, I think (?) know as the S & S Express in IWCCW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morganti Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Did we mention the Lex express? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 100-man tag with all the Expresses vs all the Connections 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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