May 2024 Wrestling Talk

[Technico Support]

25 minutes ago, Just Dave said:

At minimum I'm letting him call the fight. "Ok, kid, I'm climbing the bar. Gimme the toss so I can sell, then get in place for the nut shot." I'd sell that figure four like a stab wound, too. 

He’s arguing with the bartender while using insider terms (“I put this place over!”)…so yeah, he’d probably step outside and try to call spots during a real fight and get killed.  “OW!!  Lizzighten up, kid, it’s a wizzork!  OW!  FUCK!”

Edited May 8 by Technico Support

[Elsalvajeloco]

20 hours ago, Technico Support said:

He’s arguing with the bartender while using insider terms (“I put this place over!”)…so yeah, he’d probably step outside and try to call spots during a real fight and get killed.  “OW!!  Lizzighten up, kid, it’s a wizzork!  OW!  FUCK!”

Slightly off topic: Known hellcat Mima Shimoda did a wacky Japanese game show years back. There was a clip I saw where they had these Japanese guys in a ring trying to wrestle these women from AJW 1:1 (Shimoda along with Manami Toyota and Kyoko Inoue). This crazy guy is in there trying to wrestle Mima Shimoda like it's a shoot, and she's in there throwing WORKING slaps. 

It's probably one of the funniest videos I've ever seen in my entire lifetime. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

He’s arguing with the bartender while using insider terms (“I put this place over!”)…so yeah, he’d probably step outside and try to call spots during a real fight and get killed.  “OW!!  Lizzighten up, kid, it’s a wizzork!  OW!  FUCK!”

I'm not sure he'd make it to the point of fighting. Tearing his clothes off and elbow dropping them just might kill him. 

[Infinit]

It's really sad that the people in Ric's life aren't out with him to make sure these situations don't occur.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

6 minutes ago, Infinit said:

It's really sad that the people in Ric's life aren't out with him to make sure these situations don't occur.

I'd guess a lot of the people in his life have thrown in the towel. I've been pretty upfront about my struggles with substances on here so I'll just speak from experience. I spent almost twenty years being an addict who used to hide from who he was. Flair has been using for much longer. It didn't take too long for a good chunk of my support system to give up. No one wanted to associate with me. I found out my parents have my burial plot paid for and a funeral planned. Lots of people realized their roles in enabling. If I had to guess, many in Ric's life are struggling with that. I hate to say it but I think he might be too far gone. Becoming okay with being yourself or figuring out what that means and who that is might be the biggest struggle and a lot of people can't handle it. It took multiple attempts for me and it's still a work in progress. 

[The Great ML]

@RazorbladeKiss87 hang in there bro. God bless.

[The Natural]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vPxxgy6cAWw&pp=ygUTZGFzaGluZyBjb2R5IHJob2Rlcw%3D%3D

Before The American Nightmare, the American Psycho.

[nate]

On 5/7/2024 at 3:51 PM, ChesterCopperpot said:

 

 

This is "How Not to Cut a Promo" thread material.

[nate]

23 hours ago, Technico Support said:

It's a lot to unpack with him but the thing that just freaks me out is that this guy does not really know who the real person, Richard Fliehr, even is.  There's no person separate from the persona.  When there's no fanfare, no crowd, and no party or anything like that, does he just self-medicate to run from the emptiness?  Like the last thing he wants is to just sit with himself because there is no himself, just the character of "Ric Flair."  It just really does my head in to think about that.

Things like this is why I got into psychology and mental healthcare in the first place.

As a professional, not a client, I mean.

[Technico Support]

17 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I'd guess a lot of the people in his life have thrown in the towel. I've been pretty upfront about my struggles with substances on here so I'll just speak from experience. I spent almost twenty years being an addict who used to hide from who he was. Flair has been using for much longer. It didn't take too long for a good chunk of my support system to give up. No one wanted to associate with me. I found out my parents have my burial plot paid for and a funeral planned. Lots of people realized their roles in enabling. If I had to guess, many in Ric's life are struggling with that. I hate to say it but I think he might be too far gone. Becoming okay with being yourself or figuring out what that means and who that is might be the biggest struggle and a lot of people can't handle it. It took multiple attempts for me and it's still a work in progress. 

Good on you, buddy.  Hang in there and do your best.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, nate said:

Things like this is why I got into psychology and mental healthcare in the first place.

As a professional, not a client, I mean.

Highly off topic: I started seeing a therapist during the pandemic and ended up receiving a later-in-life ADHD diagnosis, and I kind of wish there were more meaningful research around wrestling as a genre attracting the neurodivergent. My mind was a bit blown when I realized wrestling is just an amalgamation of the best things about 3 or 4 other topics I've always kinda hyperfocused on/stimulated myself with.

[Curt McGirt]

If I had seen a therapist and been properly medicated when I was a child, I guarantee I wouldn't have suffered the hell I have as an adult. At least, I hope. Anyway, that is just to say, no matter how old you are if you think you need help then for god's sake seek it out no matter the cost. 

And now *looks at clock* I have to go see my therapist *sigh*

[Nice Guy Eddie]

24 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

If I had seen a therapist and been properly medicated when I was a child, I guarantee I wouldn't have suffered the hell I have as an adult. At least, I hope. Anyway, that is just to say, no matter how old you are if you think you need help then for god's sake seek it out no matter the cost. 

And now *looks at clock* I have to go see my therapist *sigh*

Yeah, I think I'm in the same boat. I actually feel better now not doing therapy or going to an outpatient group. Instead of doing coke or drinking, I'm smoking a lot of pot. 

[Death From Above]

Ric Flair is how Ozzy Osbourne probably would have turned out without Sharon around to kick him in the ass when he was being a total fuckhead at the various heights of his problems. Honestly, the last decade Flair being unable to let go of being Flair plus his obvious issues has been just sad to watch. It's not how I want to remember the guy but there's no doubt it's hard to ignore.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I think a big thing we're not looking at with Flair is Reid's death. I'm sure Ric never sought professional help or greived in a healthy way. He probably sought help the only way he knew, from the bottle. 

[Infinit]

59 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I think a big thing we're not looking at with Flair is Reid's death. I'm sure Ric never sought professional help or greived in a healthy way. He probably sought help the only way he knew, from the bottle. 

Not to make excuses for Naitch, but I think this is the root of Ric's problems. 

[Kevin Wilson]

I know that people have been disagreeing with each other about match quality since the 1920s, but does it seem like in the last couple years that online fans are getting *madder* about Meltzer's ratings than they used to? Back in the day I remember his ratings sometimes being posted and there may be a joke or two about it, but very very few people got legitimately angry. Now every time his ratings go around (most recently, him giving ***** to Cody/AJ) people take it so seriously and get overly agitated, as if not just one person's opinion. I mean I read reviews by Matt or Phil on here and I probably agree 20% of the time but I've never gotten... angry? I just go "ah someone with different tastes than me" and eat my bagel.

I know WWE vs. AEW online banter probably didn't help matters any but the anti-Dave movement by a section of fans has been somewhat fascinating and probably is the source of it. I just can't imagine getting as worked up as randos on the internet do. AEW existing has broken so many brains on both sides.

[The Natural]

28 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I know that people have been disagreeing with each other about match quality since the 1920s, but does it seem like in the last couple years that online fans are getting *madder* about Meltzer's ratings than they used to? Back in the day I remember his ratings sometimes being posted and there may be a joke or two about it, but very very few people got legitimately angry. Now every time his ratings go around (most recently, him giving ***** to Cody/AJ) people take it so seriously and get overly agitated, as if not just one person's opinion. I mean I read reviews by Matt or Phil on here and I probably agree 20% of the time but I've never gotten... angry? I just go "ah someone with different tastes than me" and eat my bagel.

I know WWE vs. AEW online banter probably didn't help matters any but the anti-Dave movement by a section of fans has been somewhat fascinating and probably is the source of it. I just can't imagine getting as worked up as randos on the internet do. AEW existing has broken so many brains on both sides.

I do star ratings and post Dave's but don't take them seriously like some do. I know I'm a generous marker when it comes to ***** ratings. You'll see some of mine and think WTF? I see others give ***** to matches and think WTF? As long as we are respectful and agree to disagree. Lucky to have the wrestling community we have here. I do chuckle when Meltzer goes past the full five. I never exceed that. I will say I find Dave divides the wrestling community more in recent years than he did previously. Perceived AEW bias/favourtism by him? 

Edited May 10 by The Natural

[Raziel]

1 hour ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I know that people have been disagreeing with each other about match quality since the 1920s, but does it seem like in the last couple years that online fans are getting *madder* about Meltzer's ratings than they used to? Back in the day I remember his ratings sometimes being posted and there may be a joke or two about it, but very very few people got legitimately angry. Now every time his ratings go around (most recently, him giving ***** to Cody/AJ) people take it so seriously and get overly agitated, as if not just one person's opinion. I mean I read reviews by Matt or Phil on here and I probably agree 20% of the time but I've never gotten... angry? I just go "ah someone with different tastes than me" and eat my bagel.

I know WWE vs. AEW online banter probably didn't help matters any but the anti-Dave movement by a section of fans has been somewhat fascinating and probably is the source of it. I just can't imagine getting as worked up as randos on the internet do. AEW existing has broken so many brains on both sides.

Probably because for people hitting online in the 90's, Dave, and bunch of his contemporaries, basically shaped, intentionally or not, people's perception of what was "good" wrestling.  And the "Good" was 90's AJPW style bomb throwing contests with finisher kickouts and escalation of dangerous finishers and 90's NJPW Junior MOVEZ MOVEZ MOVEZ.  So, being Dave's probably the only one of those 90's writers currently still going, he's gonna get a lot of the flak.  His Dave being Dave comments of "I won't rate old matches because Ricky Steamboat doesn't do poison ranas" (that's an exaggeration, not an actual statement) doesn't help the case.  

[Shartnado]

1 hour ago, Raziel said:

Probably because for people hitting online in the 90's, Dave, and bunch of his contemporaries, basically shaped, intentionally or not, people's perception of what was "good" wrestling.  And the "Good" was 90's AJPW style bomb throwing contests with finisher kickouts and escalation of dangerous finishers and 90's NJPW Junior MOVEZ MOVEZ MOVEZ.  So, being Dave's probably the only one of those 90's writers currently still going, he's gonna get a lot of the flak.  His Dave being Dave comments of "I won't rate old matches because Ricky Steamboat doesn't do poison ranas" (that's an exaggeration, not an actual statement) doesn't help the case.  

A beautiful arm drag of '84 is definitely like a crisp poison rana of '24, so the statement is not that far away from reality, even though the actual statement was the opposite of that. I guess the point is that one would need to count the armdrags of Steamboat in the 80's as the poison ranas of today and work from there...

[Technico Support]

18 hours ago, Infinit said:

Not to make excuses for Naitch, but I think this is the root of Ric's problems. 

I'm sure that exacerbated it, but in my Sydney M. Basil armchair therapist opinion, Ric was a fucked-up person long before that.

3 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I know that people have been disagreeing with each other about match quality since the 1920s, but does it seem like in the last couple years that online fans are getting *madder* about Meltzer's ratings than they used to? Back in the day I remember his ratings sometimes being posted and there may be a joke or two about it, but very very few people got legitimately angry. Now every time his ratings go around (most recently, him giving ***** to Cody/AJ) people take it so seriously and get overly agitated, as if not just one person's opinion. I mean I read reviews by Matt or Phil on here and I probably agree 20% of the time but I've never gotten... angry? I just go "ah someone with different tastes than me" and eat my bagel.

I know WWE vs. AEW online banter probably didn't help matters any but the anti-Dave movement by a section of fans has been somewhat fascinating and probably is the source of it. I just can't imagine getting as worked up as randos on the internet do. AEW existing has broken so many brains on both sides.

I feel like a lot of the anti-Meltzer sentiment comes from younger fans who, like every generation, want their own thing and want to throw the things of the previous generation away.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

46 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I feel like a lot of the anti-Meltzer sentiment comes from younger fans who, like every generation, want their own thing and want to throw the things of the previous generation away.

I don't know if that's entirely true that the younger generation wants to throw the prior generation away, they just don't want to be told that what they like is cool by the prior generation. It's like when I tell my daughter that I like an album that she likes. I'm not supposed to like that. I'm old! I'm supposed to be lame!

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

m sure that exacerbated it, but in my Sydney M. Basil armchair therapist opinion, Ric was a fucked-up person long before that.

I think you guys are both right - losing a child obviously speaks for itself, and as far as your position, I recall Flair wrote a bit in his '03 book about sort of not connecting with his parents much during his own upbringing partially because he was adopted (possibly even taken from his birth* mother through an orphanage scandal) and IIRC, his adoptive* father was a doctor, and apparently not much for sports. I'm sure the totality of all that does a number on one's psyche (and that's before 'life' even really started)

Edited May 10 by Zakk_Sabbath
* = adjectives for clarity

[Robert S]

49 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I'm sure that exacerbated it, but in my Sydney M. Basil armchair therapist opinion, Ric was a fucked-up person long before that.

I would agree with that from what was said in the 30 for 30 docu (and with what I remember from the Highspots shoot interview). I am not sure which effect the child trafficking had on Ric but one thing that is sure is that Ric had lots of issues with his adoptive father. I think Ric wanted nothing more than approval from him but their personalities were way too different. His adoptive father was a doctor and wanted Ric to have a "proper" job, Ric was into sports and dropped out of college. The other thing that stuck into my brain was what Ric's first wife Leslie (the mother of Megan and David) said in the 30 for 30 docu. I think the summary of what she said was that she married Richard Fliehr, at a certain point Richard Fliehr changed into Ric Flair and Ric did not like being Richard Fliehr so basically the Richard Fliehr part of his persona "died". But being Ric Flair only works when you are in the spotlight. Also you hurt your loved ones and (in the long term) yourself. I suppose Ric is struggling for the last, I don't know maybe even 25 years or more (when he got pushed away from a featured position in WCW), trying to come to terms with having to be Richard Fliehr again.

Obviously, also just a cold reading, but I guess any psychologist worth his title would have a field day with Ric and could write at least a paper if not a book on him (like people did with Bobby Fischer).

[Shartnado]

3 minutes ago, Robert S said:

I would agree with that from what was said in the 30 for 30 docu (and with what I remember from the Highspots shoot interview). I am not sure which effect the child trafficking had on Ric but one thing that is sure is that Ric had lots of issues with his adoptive father. I think Ric wanted nothing more than approval from him but their personalities were way too different. His adoptive father was a doctor and wanted Ric to have a "proper" job, Ric was into sports and dropped out of college. The other thing that stuck into my brain was what Ric's first wife Leslie (the mother of Megan and David) said in the 30 for 30 docu. I think the summary of what she said was that she married Richard Fliehr, at a certain point Richard Fliehr changed into Ric Flair and Ric did not like being Richard Fliehr so basically the Richard Fliehr part of his persona "died". But being Ric Flair only works when you are in the spotlight. Also you hurt your loved ones and (in the long term) yourself. I suppose Ric is struggling for the last, I don't know maybe even 25 years or more (when he got pushed away from a featured position in WCW), trying to come to terms with having to be Richard Fliehr again.

Obviously, also just a cold reading, but I guess any psychologist worth his title would have a field day with Ric and could write at least a paper if not a book on him (like people did with Bobby Fischer).

There are so many things to say about this on so many levels, but I think I shall just keep my mouth shut about this one. Hits home in more than few ways, to say the least.