AEW - MAY 2023

[Dog]

26 minutes ago, A_K said:

Absolutely none of those were mega fights. If you think Carlos Takam who had 3 losses on his record at 37, a 39 year old Kubrat Pulev & a 38 year old Povetkin in their first big title fights merit "mega fight" as journeymen opponents, then I have some magic beans to sell you. Heaven knows what you'd call Bud / Spence, Benavidez / Canelo, Fury / Usyk etc. But I digress - this is an AEW thread. The statistical facts related to the point are as stated in the initial post.

It's a work.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Before shitbrain broke up the momentum of the discussion, I was going say that you cannot really compare those eras with this era. WWF in 1992 was going to do well at Wembley Stadium. If was just a question of how well they would do. They had the luxury of the brand being so powerful. The buyrate was going to suck but that's 1992 WWF for you. Attendance and buyrate many times don't correlate. AEW is at the disadvantage in that:

1. You have no established footprint in that market.

2. You decided to announce zero in terms of actual matchups, which doesn't work 95% unless it's WWE. And it has to be a tentpole WWE event at that.

3. You don't have the great domestic draws like a Joshua or Fury who just by being a heavyweight titlist or linear champion are going to dominate headlines anytime they're on the card. You can literally mix and match domestic HWs along with adopted UK names like Joseph Parker or Martin Bakole and not draw below 20,000. Hell, Jermaine Franklin is below most of the guys AJ fought on the way to his first world title and that still did good enough business where the arena looked 90% full.

4. WWE still hits that market enough where major wrestling isn't all that absent. They just did some shows there weeks ago. Moreover, if UK wrestling was still on a level of demand and they hadn't kamikaze'd that a few years ago, they would go more often because you have other properties drawing on a respectable level. 

You're basically drawing this on the strength of the AEW brand, which has ZERO history in the UK.

[Dolphman 3000]

9 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You're basically drawing this on the strength of the AEW brand, which has ZERO history in the UK.

AEW is the only major wrestling promotion on free television in the UK - WWE is on a paid tier and gets less eyeballs per week

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, Dolphman 3000 said:

AEW is the only major wrestling promotion on free television in the UK - WWE is on a paid tier and gets less eyeballs per week

WWE is still WWE. They are working off several decades of strong brand awareness and ran shows in the UK prior to Summerslam 1992 and although most of them not stadium shows, several notable events since then. They can be on paid TV and still do strong business because there is a connection there.

Last time I checked, AEW was doing decent on TV in the UK but not gangbusters to the point you can do 60,000 without announcing a card.

 

 

[Kevin Wilson]

37 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You're basically drawing this on the strength of the AEW brand, which has ZERO history in the UK.

I'm not a European expert but someone mentioned before that traveling to the UK from mainland Europe is not only fairly easy but not uncommon, so I can see if they have fans in Spain, France, Germany, etc. those fans probably figure this is the closest AEW will ever come to them so its worth the trip. I'm not sure if it will/can be released but I'd be curious to know the breakdown of nationalities of those attending to see if that theory holds weight.

[Elsalvajeloco]

10 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I'm not a European expert but someone mentioned before that traveling to the UK from mainland Europe is not only fairly easy but not uncommon, so I can see if they have fans in Spain, France, Germany, etc. those fans probably figure this is the closest AEW will ever come to them so its worth the trip. I'm not sure if it will/can be released but I'd be curious to know the breakdown of nationalities of those attending to see if that theory holds weight.

That's a good theory. For those who remember UFC 70 (aka Gabriel Gonzaga literally almost murders Mirko CroCop) in Manchester, which was UFC's first foray back into the UK five years after they did UFC 38 at Royal Albert Hall, they littered that card with a bunch of European and international fighters and not just UK fighters. They was a very interesting experiment because they were no assurance that the UFC would go outside of England specifically. They have done countless UK shows since then (more than 15 years ago now) and the ratio always favors the UK contingent. They were betting on people from outside of England to help push them over the top and sell that show out.

[zendragon]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:45 AM, For Great Justice said:

Shit yeah I hope it’s piranesi

Need that Hobo Army and Wardlow Fashion Watch

I hope it’s @Nice Guy Eddie so we can see The Van Buren Boys feud with The BCC and every week someone has to become someone  else’s butler 

[matt925]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I'm not a European expert but someone mentioned before that traveling to the UK from mainland Europe is not only fairly easy but not uncommon, so I can see if they have fans in Spain, France, Germany, etc. those fans probably figure this is the closest AEW will ever come to them so its worth the trip. I'm not sure if it will/can be released but I'd be curious to know the breakdown of nationalities of those attending to see if that theory holds weight.

They did that for the first double or nothing. Tickets were sold in all 50 states and something like 8 countries. Anecdotally I’ve seen people from Germany and Italy on social media saying they have tickets, and others saying they’ve seen a bunch of people from countries other than those. 
 

Even with the diehard traveling fans I think a good amount of attendees are going to be casual fans at best, who are into the event itself. There’s been a couple posters here who are going and aren’t familiar with aew, and I’ve seen multiple people say that on social media as well. That’s why I think it could do good business in the final days of the show. People will want to go to a major event in a major city. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

This is definitely one for the international members of this forum cause I remember when WWF did all those international tours pre MNW boom (and after Hogan was either about to be gone or gone) they were hitting a lot of these obscure places especially in like Germany. I am guessing that the routing took them to all those places, and they just knew they weren't going to sell out some of those bigger cities or bigger arenas.

It would be interesting to note how they did back the day when they could hit several cities back when they taped TV versus now when even somewhat notable US cities only get one show during a calendar year. The WWE has too many live show commitments to do a committed, unabashed European tour that last 2-3 weeks.

 

[John from Cincinnati]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You're basically drawing this on the strength of the AEW brand, which has ZERO history in the UK.

Part of the strength of that brand is the fan mindset that drove the original All In: They want to support something that isn't WWE in its endeavour to prove they can put on shows at this level. People are paying to see what should be a momentous show, and yes there's pent-up fan demand for AEW overseas, but there are also fans who are invested in this succeeding and they want to help the company make a statement. It's crazy that AEW has that kind of goodwill, but it does. 

[Dolphman 3000]

15 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

They want to support something that isn't WWE in its endeavour to prove they can put on shows at this level.

WWE also shamelessly raided Europe's talent pool over the past decade

One of the Dynamite episodes that popped a large rating on ITV last year was the Forbidden Door go-home show that featured Ospreay and Aussie Open

[John from Cincinnati]

You heard the man, keep going

 

[Dolphman 3000]

On 5/2/2023 at 5:15 PM, Dolphman 3000 said:

Jericho's going to use every power in his being to claw his way to the main event so he could say he drew that house

 

[Octopus]

18 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

You heard the man, keep going

 

Give me Danielson vs McGuiness!!!!!!

[TheVileOne]

CM Punk vs. Harry Styles should headline this show. Guaranteed sellout.

Edited May 6, 2023 by TheVileOne

[GodzillaPerez]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:23 PM, Infinit said:

To all the members here who are going to Forbidden Door...want me to set up a reservation at Real Sports for pre drinks? @HarryArchieGus @S.K.o.S. @John from Cincinnati @ChesterCopperpot @GuerrillaMonsoon @Krone (sorry if I forgot anyone...everyone is welcomed!)

Lets get a head count and I will set up the reso

Not to mess with the plans but at the Rec Room the same day will be Smash vs Femmes Fatales at 11:30am and Progress Wrestling vs Defy Wrestling at 3pm in case anyone needs extra wrestling that day.

 

[Dog]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Give me Danielson vs McGuiness!!!!!!

Seen it 100 times. Give me Nigel vs. Sabre.

[Octopus]

2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Seen it 100 times. Give me Nigel vs. Sabre.

Their 101st match is going to be pretty great though.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Not to turn this into a boxing thread but don't people remember Mike Tyson before prison?  He was a DRAW by himself.  It didn't really matter most of the time who the opponent was,  I was young at the time but I just remember people saying "Tyson fight this weekend!".  It was an event.  That's what Joshua and Fury were in the U.K.  It doesn't really matter if the opponent is a "journeyman",  they are the draw and people know what they are getting. They will see their guy defend the title. 

To circle back around to AEW...  there hasn't been a match announced at all.  People can speculate that Ospreay or ZSJ are going to have a big match there or CM Punk is going to be there or Omega is going to fight this guy or that guy or there will be guest appearances like Mercedes or whatever...  it's all speculation.  Nobody knows. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Niners Fan in CT

[Dolphman 3000]

2 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

To circle back around to AEW...  there hasn't been a match announced at all.  People can speculate that Ospreay or ZSJ are going to have a big match there or CM Punk is going to be there or Omega is going to fight this guy or that guy or there will be guest appearances like Mercedes or whatever...  it's all speculation.  Nobody knows. 

A news report today said that Punk is going to float between Collision and Dynamite, but on nights he's working Dynamite the talent he doesn't get along with (*cough*Bucks*cough*) aren't allowed to be backstage.

If Punk insists on working Wembley and the Bucks are forced to stay home, they won't be happy

[Casey]

One would think that rule gets pushed to the side for PPVs, though.

[Craig H]

Again, if that's shit is true, then someone, either Punk or the Bucks, needs to stop being little bitches. This is some high school bullshit. Act your fucking age.

[Infinit]

43 minutes ago, GodzillaPerez said:

Not to mess with the plans but at the Rec Room the same day will be Smash vs Femmes Fatales at 11:30am and Progress Wrestling vs Defy Wrestling at 3pm in case anyone needs extra wrestling that day.

 

Damn...might have to check out Progress vs Defy. Thanks for the heads up!

[Dolphman 3000]

2 hours ago, Octopus said:

Give me Danielson vs McGuiness!!!!!!

Nigel vs. Hangman - The Battle of Convoluted Clotheslines

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Not to turn this into a boxing thread but don't people remember Mike Tyson before prison?  He was a DRAW by himself.  It didn't really matter most of the time who the opponent was,  I was young at the time but I just remember people saying "Tyson fight this weekend!".  It was an event.  That's what Joshua and Fury were in the U.K.  It doesn't really matter if the opponent is a "journeyman",  they are the draw and people know what they are getting. They will see their guy defend the title. 

To circle back around to AEW...  there hasn't been a match announced at all.  People can speculate that Ospreay or ZBJ are going to have a big match there or CM Punk is going to be there or Omega is going to fight this guy or that guy or there will be guest appearances like Mercedes or whatever...  it's all speculation.  Nobody knows. 

I would not necessarily compare them to Tyson as a 1:1 comparison but boxing especially in Europe has always had these periods of time where they get these major draws locally that do serious business. Germany at one time had Dariusz Michalczewski, Henry Maske, Graciano Rocchigiani, and Sven Ottke. Those guys weren't even heavyweights. That era gave way to the Klitschkos who weren't German but adopted as such. They went from major arena draws as kinda fringe level champions and contenders to Vitali (when he came back from retirement) as the WBC champion and Wlad holding the other three recognized pieces of the world heavyweight title selling out these giant stadiums with ease. At the same time, you had the non heavyweights like Arthur Abraham, Felix Sturm, and Markus Beyer who did pretty good business in the prime of their careers. Since Vitali and then Wlad retired, there have had some tough luck finding major draws. It's kinda like Green Bay going from Brett Favre being there forever to Aaron Rodgers being there forever once he replaced Favre. It's inconceivable to have a run like that as far as big box office. I would assume because the ex Soviet states have sort of inherited that mantle in boxing they once held that Germany is never going to have that unbelievable success again.

The UK over the last several years has enjoyed some that same success. The UK has always supported boxing but they went through an ugly time where they were trying to find a successor for Lennox Lewis (who spent much of his latter portion of his career in the states). Much like the U.S., you can have a bunch of great, smaller fighters or non-heavyweight fighters. However, if you can find one or maybe multiple heavyweights that can be substantial draws and be legit...oh, you're good as gold. They had dudes like Naz, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Robin Reid, Johnny Nelson, and Joe Calzaghe who seemingly held the WBO super middleweight title for like fifteen years it felt like. It was too many guys to name cause they went through a mini renaissance below the heavyweight division. It wasn't the same as having a big name heavyweight though. Therefore, we had to sit through a batch of pretenders like Danny Williams, Henry Akinwande, Michael Sprott, and Audley (aka Fraudley) Harrison. Shit, David Haye once he fully moved up from cruiser to fight Wladimir, people really wanted him to win and halfway convinced themselves he had a chance. David Price got knocked out in epic fashion multiple times because the UK had to find someone to carry the UK heavyweight mantle. For all their respective flaws, to have two guys like Joshua and Fury AT THE SAME TIME, it's the Gods smiling down upon on the British isles. It's also kinda cruel that everytime it looks like those two are about fight, it gets further and further away from happening. However, as I've stated before, they have enough domestic heavyweights to mix and match even if they cannot get guys like Wilder or Oleksandr Usyk to come over. To have Fury vs. Whyte basically be the highest attended fight in the UK post World War II tells you everything you need to know. They want events like Lennox Lewis vs. Frank Bruno consistently because they happened so rarely for a prize as big as a heavyweight title. Over the last 4-5 years, they have been getting them. At some point though, just like Germany, that's going to go away cause Fury and Joshua cannot fight forever. Maybe they get 1 or 2 more guys down the pipeline to keep it going, but it's going to come to an end eventually. 

Not that it needs to be explained, that's why Coppinger and the other guy here who might be Mike Coppinger if he ingested lead paint chips all his life are so off base. Those numbers we've been seeing when looked at in context are purely an anomaly. If the highest attended fights (that were heavily marketed) in the UK in a century aren't megafights, then nothing that has ever happened in the UK in boxing could be considered one. They have been dying to have a flourishing boxing scene that has both successful fighters in multiple classes AND a thriving and bustling domestic heavyweight division with depth. They got both. They could give a shit about the overall quality of the fights. It matters to them in a way having guys like Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer, Mercer, and Foreman in the 90s on top of having a gamut of amazing fighters below heavyweight from Roy Jones Jr. and James Toney to Oscar De La Hoya and Pernell Whitaker meant to America. Guess what? That's when American boxing was smashing PPV and gate records every other month. You cannot compare those things to a wrestling promotion that's essentially doing absurd business by just attaching their name to a PPV title on the hope that you might see some major names. It's equivalent to getting an A+ on your essay and all you did is turn in a cover page with some pretty looking font on it.