AEW - April 2023

[Casey]

12 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

I quite honestly would be fine with not seeing Punk again. The formula with him got old quick. Young guy with some buzz behind his name is announced as Punk's opponent. They have a 20 minute back and forth match. Punk hits the GTS and wins. Rinse, repeat. No thanks.

The only people you can really lump into that category is Darby and Hobbs.

Max Caster and the Acclaimed weren’t red fuckin’ hot like they would be later on, Wardlow’s buzz was dependent on finally turning face and beating MJF (hadn’t happened yet), and John Silver is in a jobber stable. Moriarty and Garcia were still Dark guys at the time.

Everyone else was people like QT, Penta, Dustin Rhodes, Bald FTR, etc. 

Ya’ll really out here trying to make it seem like Punk was beating the future faces of the company and moving on when in reality it was mostly guys closer to his age, and ones that could eat the loss.

The only person he maybe shouldn’t have beat was Kingston, but even then I’d argue Kingston should rarely punch above his weight class so to speak. He’s the perpetual underdog, even when he’s a heel.

[Matt D]

I think most of the guys who faced Punk in those matches were better off later on from credibility standpoints just for having been in the ring with Punk and him selling for them to the extent he did. With QT/Moriarty it was part of a storyline with MJF that he was maybe giving them too much (in kayfabe, not able to put them away soon enough). And of course the MJF program, which is kind of burying the lede not to mention.

A 3 month Starks vs Punk program would have benefitted him much more than the 3 month Jericho vs Starks program, which was kind of my point.

As for what there is to learn, that's an entirely other essay but that wasn't necessarily my point.

[StuntmanCrowley]

I'd argue he shouldn't have beaten Kingston or Hangman, but the latter argument is one that has been gone over again and again.

[Octopus]

Retroactive armchair booking: Punk should have lost to Hangman first and the challenge again 3 months later at AEW’s WrestleMania, Quake by the Lake.

Kingston should still lose to CM Punk and have his heart broken by others on that level. He is Kawada-Kobashi. Be an underdog until he full on man 04 Kobashi’s and spams glorious chops after winning in New York and we all cry.

Back to reality: hopefully we don’t get childish shooty call outs if there isn’t an actual payoff to them. I do agree with @Matt D and @Casey. As long as this doesn’t lead to quitting or injured (which is a worry), AEW is better with Punk. Give me Punk in a feud with anyone that can talk and it’ll be good. Starks, Darby, Stokley, Samoa Joe, etc. OR Best of 7 Series against Danielson. 
The goal is an eventual Elite feud, but if it isn’t going to happen then it isn’t going to happen. Kenny vs Phil as the next HBK vs Hogan would be funny though.

[Infinit]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:03 AM, Hungle Boy said:

Where are your seats? Me and my buddy haven't bought our tickets yet because they keep coming down in price but we're thinking of doing floor since it's about the same as lower bowl. Last year I waited until the day before and got 5th row for less than face haha.

If you're planning on grabbing typical wrestling fan food beforehand I definitely recommend fuel & fuddle or stack'd. Stack'd has better burgers and is a bit cheaper (think 5 guys but way more options and less grease) but Fuel has a better beer list. Getting a table can be a gamble so I usually order takeout and eat at the Barco building benches across the street if the weather permits. I've spent a lot of time in the area so if you need help finding a place to park or something like that just Holla. 

Did you end up going to the show? I ended up pregaming at Fuel and they were doing sort of an AEW pre-party...pretty cool!

[zendragon]

@Zakk_Sabbath MOX getting into coaching and building stuff is such a dad move

I maintain that Darby is this companies  top babyface so his program with punk didn’t hurt him at all

[hobo joe]

Fuck Punk

[DreamBroken]

new House Rules events have been added for June 2 in Tupelo, MS and June 3 in Huntsville, AL

[Jenalysis]

15 hours ago, Peck said:

Comes in 2nd on “Worst Things You Can Do To A Dog In Professional Wrestling” behind Mr. Fuji.

I still think Boss Man has this one on wrap.

 

[Casey]

5 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

new House Rules events have been added for June 2 in Tupelo, MS and June 3 in Huntsville, AL

Alright Tennessee board members - who wants to give me a ride to Huntsville

[The Natural]

Dave Meltzer on CM Punk in the WON.

Quote

As things stand right now, the return of C.M. Punk is scheduled for a 6/17 show at the United Center in Chicago, which being a Saturday night show, is likely the debut of the new weekly show.

The rumor of the new show name is AEW Collision, based on a trademark the company took out some time back, when the talks with WBD for the new Saturday show got serious.

At press time everything was not finalized, but the building is booked and it likely will be announced very shortly, when the Punk deal and the TV deal are finalized. Obviously with the building deal in place, the TV deal has to either be done or they must be almost certain of it.

The decision on Punk returning was made many weeks ago, although there was a snag two weeks back that has evidently been worked out.

Obviously being at the United Center, the show will be heavily promoted and have a theme name, which evidently has been decided upon.

CM Punk made his AEW debut in the same arena, AEW Rampage: The First Dance, 20th August 2021. June will be a busy month with the debut of AEW Collision, rumours of a AEW brand split and AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door 2023.

Edited April 21, 2023 by The Natural

[Matt D]

Do you have Punk be a heel or do you Cena/Cody him? Fans will do what they do. It seems safer to have him be a heel but that also positions him on the mic to say worse things and who knows if WBD doesn't want him to be a rah rah face of the company. I don't think you want to position babyface Jericho against him. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

[Infinit]

I still still have so many questions about Collision. Does it mark the end of the Saturday night house shows? Are they doing a show on Saturday night before Forbidden Door in Toronto? And does this permanently end live Rampage tapings?

[porksweats]

1 minute ago, Matt D said:

Do you have Punk be a heel or do you Cena/Cody him? Fans will do what they do. It seems safer to have him be a heel but that also positions him on the mic to say worse things and who knows if WBD doesn't want him to be a rah rah face of the company. I don't think you want to position babyface Jericho against him. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

You Cena/Cody him, hes above the face/heel designation at this point considering the fans that hate him will hate him and the ones that love him love him. It's transcendent in my viewpoint.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

12 minutes ago, porksweats said:

You Cena/Cody him, hes above the face/heel designation at this point considering the fans that hate him will hate him and the ones that love him love him. It's transcendent in my viewpoint.

I definitely don't disagree with you, and without knowing any plans, I think that's probably the safest bet - but thinking more specifically about it, I think the final answer lies in whatever he'll exactly be doing. If we're heading into an obvious, fantasy-booked-to-death Elite feud? Then definitely. But, if it's a very 'keep 'em separated, don't mention on TV' kind of thing, and Punk stays in his own bubble, then it's a little more murky, IMO. Logic there (I think) might say, hey, let's keep him babyface and collect that merch money and grab those eyeballs quick before the wheels fall off again -- but I suppose anything is possible at this point. If he were a younger guy with more miles left, I'd say let's expand on your idea and throw him in a couple cold matches and let the crowd dictate, but obviously that's a non-starter here for myriad reasons

[Elsalvajeloco]

11 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

new House Rules events have been added for June 2 in Tupelo, MS and June 3 in Huntsville, AL

If someone isn't involved in a concession stand brawl on 6/2, I will be personally disappointed. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

21 minutes ago, Infinit said:

I still still have so many questions about Collision. Does it mark the end of the Saturday night house shows? Are they doing a show on Saturday night before Forbidden Door in Toronto? And does this permanently end live Rampage tapings?

All questions I also have - also, what will become of the lauded BOTB franchise?!

[DMJ]

On the face/heel conversation...

There's no way he's getting booed in Chicago. There's no way he's getting booed in most cities. 

I've brought it up before but, years ago, maybe in 04' or 05', I went to a local show featuring Buff Bagwell. At the time, me and my fellow "smark" friends went there essentially to heckle Bagwell (we were young, entitled, spoiled 22 year-olds who thought asking him repeatedly "Where's Judy?" was the height of wrestling comedy). Anyway, long story short, Bagwell came out and we all popped huge. He worked babyface and all the wrestling nerds in the audience adored him as he "played the hits" (including doing his N64 WCW vs. nWo Revenge taunt, which may or may not have caused my buddy to shed a single tear). I don't remember him getting heckled but, if he was, Bagwell had us cheering for him so much that we would've turned on the heckler.

My point is - when that music hits, the kneejerk Pavlovian reaction is going to be to cheer and even if there are some "Young Buck" chants or "We Want Kenny" chants or whatever...CM Punk will only need one or two snappy comebacks to win back the majority of the crowd. 

Having him be a heel against Jericho of all people sounds extra absurd and a really bad idea. Even if he were to try to veer into heel territory, Jericho is such a buffoon (on camera and often IRL) that any criticism Punk would lob at him would probably lead to cheers. 

Against Kenny and the Bucks, I think it may end up looking like what we're seeing against the BCC. The matches - like their work against the Lucha Bros - are probably going to be terrific. But I don't get the feeling that the audience is particularly passionate about this build-up. Part of that is because the BCC, especially Mox, are too well-liked. I mean, a couple months ago, Danielson was defending the honor of pro-wrestling against MJF. Now we don't like him because he's going after the Elite...who were heels not too long ago and, even before the Brawl In incident, were somewhat polarizing figures. 

So, there may be cities where the Elite gets cheered over Punk, there may be cities where the opposite is true, and there may be cities where the fans end up cheering both sides (which kinda seems like what's happening with the current Elite/BCC feud). Ultimately, though, I think the crowd responses are going to hot and it will create a great atmosphere as long as they don't try to force either side into being a clearly defined heel/face. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

All questions I also have - also, what will become of the lauded BOTB franchise?!

Outside of the matches that Flair wrestled (the match with Wahoo and then the infamous match with Barry Windham), the Battle of the Belts shows in Florida were very underwhelming. There were lots of big names who would go on to be bigger stars elsewhere, but it was largely random matches for random titles (such as the NWA BAHAMAS TITLE). So the AEW ones are keeping in line with the original Florida version.

[odessasteps]

It was also an attempt to do a syndicated special, I think, working with Jefferon Pilot or similar company. 

[Jenalysis]

2 hours ago, DMJ said:

On the face/heel conversation...

There's no way he's getting booed in Chicago. There's no way he's getting booed in most cities. 

I've brought it up before but, years ago, maybe in 04' or 05', I went to a local show featuring Buff Bagwell. At the time, me and my fellow "smark" friends went there essentially to heckle Bagwell (we were young, entitled, spoiled 22 year-olds who thought asking him repeatedly "Where's Judy?" was the height of wrestling comedy). Anyway, long story short, Bagwell came out and we all popped huge. He worked babyface and all the wrestling nerds in the audience adored him as he "played the hits" (including doing his N64 WCW vs. nWo Revenge taunt, which may or may not have caused my buddy to shed a single tear). I don't remember him getting heckled but, if he was, Bagwell had us cheering for him so much that we would've turned on the heckler.

My point is - when that music hits, the kneejerk Pavlovian reaction is going to be to cheer and even if there are some "Young Buck" chants or "We Want Kenny" chants or whatever...CM Punk will only need one or two snappy comebacks to win back the majority of the crowd. 

Having him be a heel against Jericho of all people sounds extra absurd and a really bad idea. Even if he were to try to veer into heel territory, Jericho is such a buffoon (on camera and often IRL) that any criticism Punk would lob at him would probably lead to cheers. 

Against Kenny and the Bucks, I think it may end up looking like what we're seeing against the BCC. The matches - like their work against the Lucha Bros - are probably going to be terrific. But I don't get the feeling that the audience is particularly passionate about this build-up. Part of that is because the BCC, especially Mox, are too well-liked. I mean, a couple months ago, Danielson was defending the honor of pro-wrestling against MJF. Now we don't like him because he's going after the Elite...who were heels not too long ago and, even before the Brawl In incident, were somewhat polarizing figures. 

So, there may be cities where the Elite gets cheered over Punk, there may be cities where the opposite is true, and there may be cities where the fans end up cheering both sides (which kinda seems like what's happening with the current Elite/BCC feud). Ultimately, though, I think the crowd responses are going to hot and it will create a great atmosphere as long as they don't try to force either side into being a clearly defined heel/face. 

 

IF there's really that much animosity, then I could see both sides of it competing with each other and not agreeing to work heel.  You do have to worry about re-signing the Elite and Hangman as well, and likely more defections like Hobbs if they leave.

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

24 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Outside of the matches that Flair wrestled (the match with Wahoo and then the infamous match with Barry Windham), the Battle of the Belts shows in Florida were very underwhelming. There were lots of big names who would go on to be bigger stars elsewhere, but it was largely random matches for random titles (such as the NWA BAHAMAS TITLE). So the AEW ones are keeping in line with the original Florida version.

That's a great point (and I really, really appreciate you filling in the blanks for me on the historical stuff there, I've not seen much CWF). I was just being an asshole because I wanted/expected a Clash/SNME-level presentation (though as we've talked about before, with PPV and the various Dynamite specials, eg Winter is Coming, Grand Slam, etc it's I guess a little bit of a passé concept).

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

That's a great point (and I really, really appreciate you filling in the blanks for me on the historical stuff there, I've not seen much CWF). I was just being an asshole because I wanted/expected a Clash/SNME-level presentation (though as we've talked about before, with PPV and the various Dynamite specials, eg Winter is Coming, Grand Slam, etc it's I guess a little bit of a passé concept).

Oh, I know. That was just a general factoid for those who don't know the origin.

[Go2Sleep]

The ideal scenario would be Punk is a heel everywhere but Chicago like Bret in Canada (or currently MJF in Long Island), but realistically he's going to get cheered everywhere. If they aren't doing Omega/Ospreay at Wembley just do Kenny vs. Punk and let the chips fall where they may. Both guys are good enough to adapt to whatever the fans give them.

[Casey]

Some people are going to be real disappointed when Punk comes back and he’s not booed out of the building. I can’t wait.