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WrestleZAYNia XXXIX - 4/1 & 4/2/2023


Dolfan in NYC

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3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Bro,  Hogan's 4-year title reign ended on a screwjob finish with an evil twin referee to Andre The Giant who then SOLD the title to Million Dollar Man who was then stripped of the belt.. and that all led to one of the best stories they told of that era between Hogan and Macho. It was convoluted as all hell but in the end it worked out fine.  Hogan went on for another year after that. 

There's nothing that says Roman needs to drop the belt directly to his successor. 

Okay, since this has to be explained to you.

WWF in the 80's was a babyface territory. Hell, it was a babyface territory for it's entire existence. The belts history for literally it's entire run before 1989 was babyfaces with long title reigns and then a brief run with a heel to transition to a new babyface (With the exception of Graham). Hogan losing was in an era that the WWF wasn't confident a heel champion could even draw nationally. Using that as an example that you don't need to find a successor is moronic.

If they are running this "Roman holding our major titles for literally years as a HEEL" story, the payoff has to involve making whoever finally takes the belt off him a star. The WWE has needed a top babyface since Cena left. Cody was lined up to be that, even if I personally don't care for Cody. The only justifiable reason to not have him win the belt tonight was if they think they have a good scenario to put someone else in that position in the future, and honest to god, I don't think it's going to be happening.

And, once more: YOU CAN RUN ROMAN/JEY WITHOUT THE TITLE. You keep justifying the decision as if you can only run that match and make it be a big deal if it's for the belt. 

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stuff I jotted down during the show, I started drinking during the IC title match and my notes get sloppier

- Brock looked super happy during his entrance, he knows he's F'n made with the Endeavor deal, gonna keep getting paid to show up a few times a year

- A minute in this was already the best Omos match.  Brock looked like he slipped a disc on that first German where his feet slipped .  He was legit hurting there

- left a blank space here

- Gunther in California Uber Alles!!!  45 minutes in we finally got a real match.  This ruled.  I screamed Jesus Christ at one of Gunther's overhand chops.  I think Gunther was the crowd fave at points but Sheamus was really over too.   Glad Gunther won, he rules.

- Peacock fucked up Asuka's entrance, it was joined in progress during the Kabuki mask deal.  This match was a struggle, something came loose from Bianca's braid early, it was coming loose and it seemed to throw her off a bit.  It got going though and turned out pretty good.  I'm a big fan of both of these ladies, was a little disappointed not gonna lie

- I don't know what happened with Shane.  It looked legit.  I wrote down in all caps SNOOP RULES HE SAVED THAT SHIT thinking he reacted on the fly by punching Miz and just following directions from his earpiece to ad-lib.  But then I thought, "WHAT A WORK!!!!"  I actually think Shane worked the knee injury......I don't know, I was getting buzzed at this point

- "Brood Edge" on the tron?????  lame

- "Balor WTF"  translates as Balor WTF

- "HIAC STOPPED FOR BLOOD?!?!??!?!?!"

- so yeah, I thought the HIAC was pretty lame.  I wrote down stuff about Edge's return being snakebit, how lame Balor came off and how I hate the demon cosplay.  I don't know, I don't want to type anymore about it

- I have a feeling that Russell Crowe Priest's Exorcist movie will be a massive hit.  What a genius, seems ripe for America in 2023

- what were the Philly fans chanting when they cut to the bar after the promo for next year's Mania?

- then I wrote down some shit about feeling it was a Roman town during Cody's entrance, Roman's entrance being dope, crowd being more pro-Cody when it started etc. etc.  Brodie being there.  I actually thought they might go close to an hour.  Then they hit the first nearfall after the backdrop on the table outside kinda early, then the solo ejection, then they went into a hybrid of the typical Roman match teasing falls but dragging it out more and kinda restarting things, I really liked the pacing and layout of this match.  There was one point where they were trading shots and I heard Roman on mic say "we got em" and they did.  The Usos getting involved and Sami and Kevin evening things was well placed.  This was a pretty great WM main event IMO

Overall Night 2 dragged a lot for me and had me appreciating Night 1 more.  I was kinda scoffing at how much people liked it, but then I'm like, "well, I liked it too" and I watched night 2 and I liked 1 a lot better overall, so like, I get it now

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7 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Jey Uso could easily be a transitional champion. He vanquishes Roman.  Gunther ends up beating Jey.  There's your new guy.   Backlund lost to The Iron Sheik who held the belt all of a month maybe..  before Hogan wrecked him.  Wonderful. 

Then you would have succeeded in paying of your 3 year storyline by not making anybody a big star, and just a footnote in history everyone will have forgotten about 18 months later. You would have stalled the growth of everyone else in the company for almost half a decade for no payoff. 

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As for the show.. Rhea/Charlotte was my favorite from Saturday and Gunther's chest chop dance party was my favorite from Sunday. I think Rhea/Charlotte was the best match of the two nights.

Considering the impending buyers for the WWE, if they can find a 7 foot tall Dagestani, just imagine how much fun a 5 minute match between Brock Lesnar and Dagestani Omos would be.

(Are they called Dagestanis?)

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now the real plan, they brought back Roman's next challenger tonight. One of the last 3 men to pin Roman one on one 4 years ago. Heyman alluded to it in earlier promo calling Roman "The Money"...... well then, "Here Comes The Money!!!!!" 

I lost my shit Shane O Mac is BACK, now we can build to SummerSlam (in Detroit, where he made the legendary return in 2016). Next month there's another tournament in Saudi Arabia and we all remember the 2018 World Cup!

And then 2 minutes later, he was broken and my excitement died that quick forever.

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33 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Saying Jey Uso has "no shot" but The Rock does... what?   What in the world.  Dwayne is not ending this run.  

The same company that had a geriatric Bill Goldberg who hadn't wrestled in over a decade win the world title in a squash match would 100% put the title on The Rock for a month or two if he agreed to come back for it. That isn't a matter of the fans thinking Rock has a shot or it making any kind of logical sense, it's something the company would do for what they view as potential ratings. I think it would be a dumb idea and probably a lousy match, but it's totally something the WWE would do.

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22 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Man, I don't even like AEW, but describing Darby Allin as a "midcard tag team guy" is a really shitty characterization. Say what you will about Jungle Boy, but Darby has been one of there best talents.

I like Darby, sure, but outside of a cup of coffee run with the TNT title all he's done recently is work in a midcard tag team with Sting and not much more.

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4 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I like Darby, sure, but outside of a cup of coffee run with the TNT title he's been in a midcard tag team with Sting and not much more.

….my guy, he’s teamed up with Sting like 13 times since May 2021.

Read that a few times.

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As for the rest of the stuff. Bianca/Asuka was my favorite match overall. The crowd was a little spent at first but after Bianca hit the super power superplex, things were on FIRE from then on. Absolutely loved that finishing sequence. Big fan of both so good either way but love to see Bianca hit the full year mark of an epic reign.  IC title match was great.

HIAC felt like once they saw blood, they started rushing through spots to get to the finish. Solid enough but where the fuck was GANGREL? thought that was the whole point of this being "BROOD EDGE". Disappointing. 

but yeah the ending just kinda kills my interest in whatever happens next, the moment will never be the same.

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Somehow Snoop Dogg has a reasonably passable elbow drop and of all the classic finishers, that's pretty much the one where someone could do it without being a trained wrestler. Just drop your elbow into the Miz's hands and there's enough ambiguity that it looks good.

Snoop did a better elbow drop than End Times Andre the Giant, but Andre was superfucked and he wasn't about to do the bump necessary to do a good elbow drop.

Snoop ran the ropes as well as some random goober doing a job on TV for beer money. But if you gotta improvise, it could have gone worse.

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1 minute ago, Casey said:

….my guy, he’s teamed up with Sting like 13 times since May 2021.

Read that a few times.

His last 15 months don't make for great reading - Darby Allin: Profile & Match Listing - Internet Wrestling Database (IWD) (profightdb.com)

His biggest win in 2022 was over Andrade in a Coffin match.

On PPV he - teamed with Sting and Sammy at Revolution, teamed with Sting and Takagi at Forbidden Door, teamed with Miro and Sting at All Out, teamed with Sting at Full Gear

This year at Revolution he... wasn't on the show.

He's a really solid hand in the ring and has a gimmick people love, but he's clearly not much more than a way of Tony getting Sting on PPV at the moment. I would actually argue the pairing has done more harm than good at this point.
 

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27 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Okay, since this has to be explained to you.

WWF in the 80's was a babyface territory.

It hasn't been for a very long time.  Since you want to explain things,  Roman is the face of the company whether he's babyface or heel.  

And for the record,  K.O.,  Sami Zayn,  The Usos,  Roman and Cody are all way more over now than they were a year ago.  All of them.  Roman has been champion this whole time and yet I just named 6 guys who are all more over just from this whole saga alone. So you can miss me with the "nobody is being made"  stuff. 

Edited by Niners Fan in CT
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BTW, I’d love to see someone explain the bullshit of Cody hitting two straight finishers on Roman only to have Roman pop back up and hit the spear after Cody got spiked tearing Cody’s finisher like shit. 

I honestly only have myself to blame for getting invested again and thinking that after the ending to night one that the storybook ending would be completed on night 2.

But hey, at least Sanada is being treated like the real deal, Okada is in full dick mode, and maybe, just maybe, Sanada will beat Okada. And if he doesn’t, then that’s cool too because dickhead Okada rocks.

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1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It hasn't been for a very long time.  Since you want to explain things,  Roman is the face of the company whether he's babyface or heel.  

Ha, deleting most of the post, and ignoring the counter point. I'll ask point blank: Why can't Jey/Roman be a non title match and you make *gasp* a SECOND big star on this show? Until you answer that, you are basically just saying "I don't actually have a counter point" in big bold letters without typing them.

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1 minute ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Ha, deleting most of the post, and ignoring the counter point. I'll ask point blank: Why can't Jey/Roman be a non title match and you make *gasp* a SECOND big star on this show? Until you answer that, you are basically just saying "I don't actually have a counter point" in big bold letters without typing them.

I never said that can't happen.  You can absolutely do that.  I would be perfectly fine if the internal issues with The Bloodline leads to Roman having no help and dropping the title to someone and then Jey and Roman have a big blowoff match.  That's fine. I'm not someone who is stuck on one idea and if that one thing doesn't come to fruition it's the end of the world.  There are a lot of booking choices that WWE has made even since Triple H has taken over that I have to question but tonight ehhh..  didn't bother me. 

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I am torn as when Cody first showed up back in WWE and got the reactions he did I thought the play was to have him challenge roman at Summerslam or Survivor Series, lose, and then get him at Mania. I felt this as because of the story they are telling he really should fall short at least once, there's too much fertile ground there. Then he got hurt and I went "well it is Mania, he should probably win".

So yeah, it's a big featured spot to lose in, possibly too big of one to do so safely... but I still think there is a lot of story potential in his first shot falling short and how he deals with that.

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5 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Ha, deleting most of the post, and ignoring the counter point. I'll ask point blank: Why can't Jey/Roman be a non title match and you make *gasp* a SECOND big star on this show? Until you answer that, you are basically just saying "I don't actually have a counter point" in big bold letters without typing them.

This is actually what I wanted for Mania.

Sami wins the title at EC. Cody wins the Rumble. Cody plays up the "This is my story, you're not meant to be here" super face who's actually a tweener role that he seems to love.

Bloodline breakdown leads to Roman/Solo vs The Usos (No holds barred) at Mania.

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4 minutes ago, username said:

I am torn as when Cody first showed up back in WWE and got the reactions he did I thought the play was to have him challenge roman at Summerslam or Survivor Series, lose, and then get him at Mania. I felt this as because of the story they are telling he really should fall short at least once, there's too much fertile ground there. Then he got hurt and I went "well it is Mania, he should probably win".

So yeah, it's a big featured spot to lose in, possibly too big of one to do so safely... but I still think there is a lot of story potential in his first shot falling short and how he deals with that.

For sure.  And he's learned from his last big title match not to stip that he'll never challenge for the title in the promotion again.  Save that for the rematch

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It’s hard to argue people have been made by this storyline when they only got the reactions they did when people thought they were going to be the ones to end it (Sami & Cody) and it’s questionable to think they will get the same outside of that story given they let the people down. It’s also hard to assume they are using this as a tool to elevate someone given they have passed up their 2 best opportunities in the last 2 months, and the conditions that led to that aren’t really replicable. 

So assuming they are using this as a situation where it will be a “big star” that comes in to win it, the only 2 possible names that make any sort of sense which would fit are The Rock……and CM Punk. The Rock story is obvious, but if it’s not him, Punk is the only big enough name that’s either not on the roster or that hasn’t already been tarnished by losing to Reigns. His storyline connection to The Sheild debut/Heyman would also allow for a decent story to be told, without even worrying about the buzz a Punk/Reigns feud would create.

 

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I still think this is a Cody story rather than or moreso a continuation of the Bloodline.

Cody wins the Rumble at #30. You then spend weeks talking about how Stardust sucked, so he left, he couldn't get over in AEW, so he left, he couldn't get a job in Hollywood, so he quit that too.

The story is about whether Cody can overcome adversity, and not run when the going gets tough. It's the more interesting route, rather than winning the title here and the usual Wrestlemania rematches on the next 2 PPVs where the guy that went over at Mania hardly ever loses it straight back.

It's possibly even a story that they tried to tell with Cena after he lost to the Rock at Mania, and his need for a redemption story (except there was like a whole year of minor stuff in between and it was hardly ever brought up until Mania season). 

The directions you can go are also far more than the options of who can dethrone Roman:

- I think they should do a Texas Bullrope match for the next PPV. Ideally Cody bleeds buckets, but it won't happen. Cody wins the title there. Roman remains without being pinned or submitted for 4 years. Which happens at the next PPV. 

- They could do the Cena redemption path and have Cody find ways to redeem himself in his own and the fans' eyes before a rematch at next year's Mania. Closure to the Orton and Rollins programs. Is there an ending to Stardust? Some big face to face in-ring confrontation with HHH? Do they bring Dustin in? 

- Maybe you lean into this, and you build Cody up as the next big heel when Roman goes away, unable to win the big one, unable to be The Guy because they want Sami or The Rock instead. That when given his big opportunity, he Lugered it.  

- If they're going to split the titles. Give Cody a rematch but only for the Universal title. Have him win, but be taunted that he's still not WWE Champion - he still hasn't done what his father set out to accomplish. Chase Roman for the year and then win the WWE Championship at Mania next year

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Thinking more about it I do think it was a mistake to not have Cody win here as I don't think there will be a better opportunity for the title change to feel like such a major moment regardless of who wins it. That said, I also don't think it was such a massive fuck up either as I don't think Cody or anyone can really come out of beating Roman as the next big star per say. At least not in the way Roman has been the past 2-3 years. I think that is something people have to make happen eventually on their own over time opposed to being tied to a specific torch passing moment. I also think the soap boxing by some (not necessarily here save for one obvious poster) is a bit much as I don't really think the ones who left WWE will ever really come back regardless of whose champ or the shows' quality. The fact that so many are tying to the whole weekend/show to one particular match when there were multiple great matches where people mostly thought the right person came away the winner kind of says enough about some kind of looking for an excuse to be mad.

As for who beats Roman, I still think Cody and Sami are still the best options. Jey being the guy might have worked for a shorter story and reign but not at this point. He should probably be involved in the finish but not the actual guy. He has come far and is a far bigger star than he was at the beginning of this story, but he still isn't the guy people are going to typically pay to see on his own. I'm also thinking more and more whenever the loss happen it should be before Summerslam, ideally within the next couple of months instead of trying to drag it out. 

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