Thunder Down Under

Yeah altho the idea that he made sure things like his music/tron package were all cued up and ready to go on his own does make me laugh.

Yeah I see this as Levesque’s first real “We will always do what’s best for business “ moment in charge. This is just a sign that still no bridge is ever burned in that company if a ton of money can be made from you.

Wonder if he did a post show victory lap in the ring?

Damn RIP DEAN

I’m far from a fan of the Omega/Bucks style of wrestling, but it’s hard to point to that as being deleterious while fans being deprived of gratification when they assume they are going to get it after a 3 year long story isn’t. Both have just as negative an effect as the other. And when you consider how many fans have been shed over the years, it’s hard to point to WWE as a company that really does well in servicing their fans in general.

Yeah short of winning the title tonight, it was hard to see how Cody would’ve been better off. As it is, Cody likely would’ve been better off not even being on Raw. So not only did he fall short on the biggest stage after making a big deal about how he had to win, he got turned down for a rematch and then was stupid enough to pick a partner who turned before the bell even rang and got absolutely destroyed by said partner. What motivation do the fans have to see him as anything but a loser now?

I think a lot of the online WWE/AEW discourse is just based on how objectively bad both companies are at putting on consistently good wrestling TV shows, which gives anybody that wants to criticise them a lot of ammo, with the diehards on both sides then feeling compelled to dig in for various reasons. Acknowledging that the WWE has struggled to put together an engaging, coherent Main Event angle from WM to WM for over 2 decades and botched one that basically fell into their laps does not mean you want the company to die. Acknowledging that AEW books to a very narrow segment of the wrestling community with no real attempts to grow it except hoping that the general population develops a taste for watching ***** matches also does not mean you want it to die. It is probably that lack of honesty within the power structures of those companies would explain why the 10 million people who used to watch wrestling on a Monday night has dwindled down to 2 million or so.

It’s hard to rely on capturing lightning in bottle for a second time. Given this company’s track record you described, it is just as likely Sami will be doing something insignificant next Mania due to the failure to capitalise on the chance they had this year.

It’s hard to argue people have been made by this storyline when they only got the reactions they did when people thought they were going to be the ones to end it (Sami & Cody) and it’s questionable to think they will get the same outside of that story given they let the people down. It’s also hard to assume they are using this as a tool to elevate someone given they have passed up their 2 best opportunities in the last 2 months, and the conditions that led to that aren’t really replicable. So assuming they are using this as a situation where it will be a “big star” that comes in to win it, the only 2 possible names that make any sort of sense which would fit are The Rock……and CM Punk. The Rock story is obvious, but if it’s not him, Punk is the only big enough name that’s either not on the roster or that hasn’t already been tarnished by losing to Reigns. His storyline connection to The Sheild debut/Heyman would also allow for a decent story to be told, without even worrying about the buzz a Punk/Reigns feud would create.

It only makes sense if you don’t build it up in the way they did, but once they went with the build they did he just looks like no different to the other losers, especially with such a weak finish. That’s ignoring if they’ll have The Bloodline feud as hot when they eventually do pull the trigger.

God this company is so stupid lmao

Reigns really has been built up strong enough that dropping the title to Zayn in a fluke loss and quickly getting it back either on Raw or SD wouldn’t have hurt his eventual decisive loss, and would’ve helped Zayn the most given the circs. The elevation he’d have gotten even with a fluke is better than any possible outcome they have going forward. As it is now, there is no possible way to recapture the heat/moment that he had leading into EC. It’s one thing for fans to care/notice title streaks etc, but for promotions to base their booking around it is the height of stupidity. If the number is all that counts, why bother with the decisive victory for him in the end after giving his opponent a visible victory/excuse for losing. If you want him to be super dominant in addition to the number of days, why bother with the visible victory/excuse for the loser? That sort of inconsistency leads to unsatisfying finishes like this. Even if you absolutely had to keep the title in Reigns at this show, a count out victory for Sami (say via Helluva Kicking Reigns out of the ring and Reigns not beating the 10 count back) would’ve popped the crowd way bigger and sent them home happier than what they did after the pinfall and kept everybody as strong going out as they came in. Taking an even wider view, a Reigns loss leading to a rematch this week would’ve likely finally helped make the most of the Fox deal/platform. So few people are presented on the weekly shows as big stars. While not Montreal, a quick rematch this week would still likely have a fair amount of heat to it. Sami being presented as champion in that environment on that platform would’ve done more for him than anything they can do now. Just another in the long line of missed opportunities by this company over the years.

Again that argument would hold some weight if the evidence supported it, but what you said is demonstrably false. Fans still popped well for Sting for the majority of 98, like the Nitro he joined the Wolfpack, the Sting/Goldberg match in September and the TV ratings for 1998 and around 1/2 of 1999 were much stronger than 1997. That just wouldn’t have been the case if the result of Starrcade had such a negative effect on the wider fan base. It doesn’t seem like you can seperate creative that you personally did not enjoy vs the actual effect that creative had on the business. https://www.wwe.com/videos/sting-joins-the-nwo-wolfpac-nitro-june-1-1998 All the people in the lower bowl area jumping up and down when he clotheslines don’t seem to be indicative of a character that had been killed because of a botched finish in the same building 5/6 months prior.

If you are going to suggest the finish of the match killed the company, then it only makes sense to see if any other option would’ve avoided that same fate. But I guess if we are using dirt sheet rumours of the time, Hogan could’ve gotten his win back over Yoko at Super Brawl 8 as part of a reformed Hart Foundation instead of running back Hogan/Sting. And how on earth were those matches “out there by design”? Just because the dirt sheets/RSPW tried to wish it into existence it doesn’t make it “out there”. Sting/Raven had 0 on camera interaction to that point, and would make no sense in the context of the company at the time, unless the idea is to feed Raven to Sting. A rushed Hart/Sting feud wouldn’t have helped either party involved either. Sting either drops the title in his first program after winning, or Hart loses his first crack as a baby face (against another face in his new company), or you decide to do a screwy finish to protect both guys (which would be ironic if that would be your preference ironic given the topic). The rest is just nonsensical hate for Hogan, which somehow assumes that Kevin Nash and Raven knew of the issues with the execution of the finish in advance, which is just laughable. Would the rest of the boys still have been “all in” if Nick Patrick had’ve done a proper fast count/Bret had a working mic when restarting?

They also did Savage/Hart 4 months later at Slamboree which was nothing to write home about (likely due to the knee issues suffered at Havoc 97). So it’s doubtful it would’ve been a better match than Flair/Hart, or what they presented at Slamboree. So saving Hart/Flair as an attraction for a show that needed it makes more sense than putting it onto an already loaded show.