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AEW - OCT 2021


The Natural
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46 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Oh, I'll concede it's rather unlikely they'd be found guilty in a US court of law. (From my view as an outsider, US culture in general doesn't seem to be big on competitive free markets.) And my original post may have been worded too strongly; I'm not sufficiently versed in antitrust law to say for certain whether WWE's actions crossed the line. My point was that your blanket assertion that those actions aren't illegal may be on shakier ground than you realize. To quote from the US FTC's website:

Are you really 100% certain that WWE's actions couldn't be construed as "acting to maintain ... a dominant position by excluding competitors or preventing new entry"? If so, would you care to argue your point? Because it looks to me like that's exactly what they're doing.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly confident those actions are not the case. Now, WWE has certainly broken those rules in the past and taken actions that I believe are very much illegal and anti-competition. The story about Vince McMahon threatening to pull WrestleMania from cable and satellite providers if they show NWA Clash of the Champions I for instance. To me that is anti-competition and antitrust. WWE is rumored to have tried to prevent ROH from booking an event at Madison Square Garden, despite not having any sort of ownership or exclusive wrestling agreement with the arena. That is not fair and just competition, and Sinclair is said to have threatened a lawsuit over it. It appeared WWE backed off and ROH/NJPW ran a co-promoted show there in April 2019. 

As far as running opposing shows on the same night, less commercial ad breaks, ad revenue, the way I see that, that's between the promotion and their broadcast partners. Or if SmackDown goes on an extra half hour, I don't see how that's anti-competition if it means you're trying to draw more eyeballs to your product. Is AEW Dynamite being anti-competition to WWE NXT during the Wednesday Night Wars when Dynamite has picture in picture ad breaks where you can still see the action in and outside the ring?

Also, even though WWE virtually had a monopoly over the wrestling industry after ECW & WCW went under, they weren't preventing other players from coming in and blocking them from making a go of it. WWE never prevented TNA from doing business or fly-by-night mainstream competitor attempts with the WWE castoffs or WCW people who didn't sign after the buyout. They didn't prevent AEW's creation or AEW from gaining its major TV broadcast deals.

Even post Monday Night Wars, WWE was less of a monopoly than the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB; who are given government exemption from their monopoly status.

Edited by TheVileOne
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51 minutes ago, zendragon said:

The Cattle Mutilation always makes me think of Cattle Decapitation. Seeing as how these guys and Bryan are both eco-vegans I wonder if that is intentional 

Probably not, because he didn't name the move. There was a guy in Japan (Michinoku Pro or Osaka Pro I think) who was doing a bridging double armlock called the Cattle Mutilation before Bryan (although that guy was doing it to a seated opponent, not one that's facedown; Like a WAR Special and then you flip forward). Then Bryan started doing his move and someone told him it was called the Cattle Mutilation, and he thought it sounded cool and stuck with it.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

Probably not, because he didn't name the move. There was a guy in Japan (Michinoku Pro or Osaka Pro I think) who was doing a bridging double armlock called the Cattle Mutilation before Bryan (although that guy was doing it to a seated opponent, not one that's facedown; Like a WAR Special and then you flip forward). Then Bryan started doing his move and someone told him it was called the Cattle Mutilation, and he thought it sounded cool and stuck with it.

According to his book: Bryan first saw the move performed by Muta at an NWA tournament called Future Shock '89 (Starrcade '89, in Atlanta. Presumably he watched it on video year later? He would have been 9 at the time). Muta wasn't using it as a finisher, but Bryan thought it might be cool to use it as one. He called it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He started using it in Memphis (in 2000), but only a few times as a finisher. He first heard the name "Cattle Mutilation" from Reckless Youth at the Super 8 (presumably 2001) which is where he started using it as his regular finisher. At first, he didn't know what Youth was referring to, and after it was explained to him he assumed he'd never hear the term again. Subsequently, Christopher Daniels also called the hold the "Cattle Mutilation" but Bryan didn't like the imagery and in his own mind kept calling it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He says that he continued to call it that until late 2002, when he finally accepted that everyone else in ROH called it the Cattle Mutilation and there was nothing he could do to change that. 

Edited by Gordberg
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15 minutes ago, Gordberg said:

According to his book: Bryan first saw the move performed by Muta at an NWA tournament called Future Shock '89. Muta wasn't using it as a finisher, but Bryan thought it might be cool to use it as one. He called it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He started using it in Memphis (in 2000), but only a few times as a finisher. He first heard the name "Cattle Mutilation" from Reckless Youth at the Super 8 (presumably 2001) which is where he started using it as his regular finisher. At first, he didn't know what Youth was referring to, and after it was explained to him he assumed he'd never hear the term again. Subsequently, Christopher Daniels also called the hold the "Cattle Mutilation" but Bryan didn't like the imagery and in his own mind kept calling it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He says that he continued to call it that until late 2002, when he finally accepted that everyone else in ROH called it the Cattle Mutilation and there was nothing he could do to change that. 

You beat me to it, buddy. Bryan Danielson's autobiography is terrific. It's in the first class wrestling books with Mick Foley's Have a Nice Day, Bret Hart's Hitman, Chris Jericho's A Lion's Tale and William Regal's Walking a Golden Mile.

Edited by The Natural
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AEW DARK
 
2point0 (Matt Lee & Jeff Parker), Daniel Garcia, and Serpentico vs. Dark Order’s Stu Grayson, Colt Cabana, Alan “5” Angels, & 10
 
Fun match with a concept I hate in "we have a partner we don't want to work with" on the heel side of the fence. I just think having a partner you refuse to work with effectively is pretty dumb as you probably shouldn't have signed up for a 8 man tag match then. I just cannot rationally figure why it would happen in the meta. 2point0 were really good here but I really wouldn't like it if they fall in the pecking order behind the lower members of The Dark Order. I was willing to look at them doing jobs to the upper card as them finding a place on the card, but this makes them look closer to being at the bottom of the card instead of being in the mix. Colt Cabana really feels lifeless at this point just going through comedy spot motions. Angels without the mask is even more boring than him with it because now he's the third guy in his faction who is bald with a goatee. Serpentico seems to be the 'never does anything right' character and its a character I don't have a lot of time for. 
 
I'll post more later.
 
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10 hours ago, AxB said:

Probably not, because he didn't name the move. There was a guy in Japan (Michinoku Pro or Osaka Pro I think) who was doing a bridging double armlock called the Cattle Mutilation before Bryan (although that guy was doing it to a seated opponent, not one that's facedown; Like a WAR Special and then you flip forward). Then Bryan started doing his move and someone told him it was called the Cattle Mutilation, and he thought it sounded cool and stuck with it.

Yeah, it's a total mystery how the move got its name.  Obviously its got something to do with the mysterious phenomenon known as bovine excision and its alleged ties to extraterrestrials, but I can believe the move was dubbed thus because someone thought the name sounded cool.   I want to say that Danielson used to call it Arms Across America before changing up to the Cattle Mutilation, but I am old and could be remembering shit the wrong way.

Pierroth Jr. used to use a bridging inverted chinlock / cravate as a sub finisher that I always thought was cool and hurty looking, and Damian Wayne from NWA Virginia used to have this nasty bridging hammerlock sub finisher that was totally filthy.

Edited by J.T.
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I cannot go on this ride with you, @Goodear. I don't think 2.0 and Garcia can control their bookings. Khan wanted a eight man Dark Order tag and 2.0 and Garcia, being such dicks to everyone, have no friends. Serpentico  just wanted YouTube time and is used to being abused left and right by Luther so he was just happy to be there. He also does certain things right. He caused the initial distraction that let 2.0 take over, for instance. He just doesn't do a lot well. Maybe I'll feel differently about the act after seeing it for a year but he's such a small part of the show that I'm always glad to see him. If he was on Raw, he get that terrible comedy spot every show and you'd be sick of him within a month, but he shows up once every three Darks now.

Dark 10/19/21

Hayter vs Nieves: This wasn't quite there. I liked how Hayter was moving Nieves around the ring wherever she wanted her. That was effective but nothing looked super impactful. I wonder if she can do a hanging vertical? The clothesline was too abrupt. She should have found some way to telegraph it more and get the crowd primed for it maybe?

Gunn Club vs Sheik/Alexander/Chamberlain: Is Colton's finisher the same as Dustin's new finisher? I'm not going to look for it but it seems iffy. It looked good here at least. Best bit of this was probably Austin pulling the legs from the outside early. It's very clear what Austin is but I don't really get what heel Colton is supposed to be, especially with Billy standing right there sort of being a better version of whatever it might be. Billy's punch on Sheik was great but I wanted to see that guy do more.

Diamante/Nyla/Sakura vs Statlander/Rosa/Velvet: Things to like here but they were more specific moments than the overall match. I get a sense that people trained more recently are taught to look at dropdowns as a way to trip an opponent as opposed to just something you do as part of a routine. I see that in watching Velvet at least. There was almost a sense of hierarchy here as she lost the offense quickly against Emi but who knows since the match was so much noise by that point. My favorite thing about Statlander is how she works the boop in and she worked it in by trying it to Nyla and getting crushed with a suplex. Nyla sure isn't protected anymore, that's for sure. She tagged herself in and got clowned pretty quickly. Diamante fed well for everyone. That's her lot. I did like her little taste of tandem stuff with Nyla. Rosa understands what she has with the crowd and is able to milk it at times, so good on her. If these sentences are all random, disconnected thoughts, that's ok; so was the match. Also, unlike the match on Elevation, they didn't use this to hype the TBS tournament nearly as well.

Jade promo: The "Very Funny" thing probably didn't work, but it was a good effort. The promo itself worked fine. I like managers. Jade obviously needs one. There's even benefit in her having her own since it makes her stand out more. The company just has a lot. Jade is not the person to put the TBS belt on this year.

Archer vs Fernandez: Jake just seemed glad to be there. I would have liked to see his reaction to Archer dragging the guy out. Yeah, Archer is really fun to watch in squashes. He has that Sid/Steiners/Road Warriors vibe. This pretty quickly became the Taz/Kingston show, which was pretty distracting, let me tell you. Kingston's mini promo about how he could hurt Archer was good. Fernandez got to show some fire and he ate that forearm well off the top. This was a blur, but that's ok. I do like how Dark is constantly pushing towards the main shows.

Solo vs Kazarian: I got kind of restless midway through this one and got looking up Solo and realized he was in a team with Starks right before Taz told us that. IT was funny because when he was out on the floor, I kind of had Starks vibes out of him, so I can see that. I think there's honestly room for just about everyone on the roster, but I can't tell you what Solo's doing there. He's competent, and you want guys like Kazarian and Sydal to put over talent on the bigger shows, but I don't think Kazarian is any stronger for beating Solo than he would have been beating some talented indy guy. So this was fine, sound, but there wasn't a lot of reason to care.

2.0/Garcia/Serpentico vs Dark Order: The entrance was pretty funny, especially because they set up the moment on the ramp and then paid it off in the ring with the streamers. How can you not enjoy watching Serpentico? The bit where he kept trying to give Parker a thumbs up was so good. The long beatdown on Angels didn't work. I don't know if the crowd was just exhausted and this was late in the taping cycle or he didn't get a hope spot or the Dark Order (including Colt) just weren't working the apron or what. The only one that was really getting reactions was Garcia with his off the charts intensity. 10 is one of the best hot tags in the company with his size and spots. Does Grayson always do that flip over senton to the guy leaning on the apron? That seems like a challenging spot to work into multiple matches but it worked here. The finishing stretch started awkward and then used that awkwardness for humor so good on them. Still, overall this could have worked better.

Edited by Matt D
Typo city
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52 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Yeah, it's a total mystery how the move got its name.  Obviously its got something to do with the mysterious phenomenon known as bovine excision and its alleged ties to extraterrestrials

I think it got that name because when applied, the wrestlers' limbs are all over the place in unnatural positions and it looks like a cow that's been dissected by aliens, split down the middle, and spread out.

Edited by Technico Support
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13 hours ago, AxB said:
Also, did you not notice just how frequently the WWE has felt the need to let everyone know they won the Monday Night War? For the last 20 years?

I was watching NXT 2 point Oh on an off last night and as an old school WCW fan was pretty salty that they're using the Halloween Havoc event name for an event on their developmental show, but I also know that VKM will never miss a chance to rub that in.

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10 hours ago, Gordberg said:

According to his book: Bryan first saw the move performed by Muta at an NWA tournament called Future Shock '89 (Starrcade '89, in Atlanta. Presumably he watched it on video year later? He would have been 9 at the time). Muta wasn't using it as a finisher, but Bryan thought it might be cool to use it as one. He called it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He started using it in Memphis (in 2000), but only a few times as a finisher. He first heard the name "Cattle Mutilation" from Reckless Youth at the Super 8 (presumably 2001) which is where he started using it as his regular finisher. At first, he didn't know what Youth was referring to, and after it was explained to him he assumed he'd never hear the term again. Subsequently, Christopher Daniels also called the hold the "Cattle Mutilation" but Bryan didn't like the imagery and in his own mind kept calling it the "bridging chicken wing thing." He says that he continued to call it that until late 2002, when he finally accepted that everyone else in ROH called it the Cattle Mutilation and there was nothing he could do to change that. 

Yeah, going into announcing there, I knew that's what I was supposed to call that move when I saw it.

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I never understood why Danielson didn't use the Cattle Mutilation in WWE, but I seem to recall there being some rumors from around that time that the name Cattle Mutilation was way too extreme. That itself would make sense considering nothing with WWE makes sense, like not wanting to use the name Curb Stomp or Calf Killer, but being totally cool with a move called the Drive By. Still though, I don't recall Danielson ever using the move in WWE and now he's back to using it again. I can't imagine any of the boys didn't want to take it, so I'm assuming it's either Vince thinking the move looks dumb or Danielson not doing it to separate what he was doing as Daniel Bryan from what he did as Bryan Danielson.

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3 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Maybe a silly question but how flexible do you have to be to take it? Could it just be the sort of thing the Ortons of the world weren't interested in being in?

I should have said that I can't imagine that none of the boys wanted to take it. Like not even Luke Harper in their match? Or AJ Styles? Or Kofi?

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12 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Maybe a silly question but how flexible do you have to be to take it? Could it just be the sort of thing the Ortons of the world weren't interested in being in?

How flexible? Not very. The Lebell lock/ Yes lock is far closer to being a shoot hold than the Cattle Mutilation is.

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