AEW Dynamite - 8/4/2021

[Coletti]

30 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

That's not the case.  From all the timelines I found from summaries of Amanda's podcast interview, and a timeline from Meltzer's story on his passing, Brodie felt ill on a Monday after he'd already dropped the title back to Cody and went right downhill from there, never appearing on TV again.  So Cody won the belt on October 7 and Brodie's symptoms didn't start until after that. 

I don't think I've ever heard anything about him discussing symptoms with anyone prior to losing the title and his wife has been so open that you'd think she'd have mentioned it.  So unless I'm missing something (entirely possible!!!) I'm baffled as to where this narrative of "everyone knew he was sick so he had to lose it back to Cody" came from.

You are likely right, but are you ACTUALLY baffled by that narrative? Brodie loses the belt after three weeks in his last match and never appears again before his untimely passing. Seems plausible for people to assume in hindsight that they were scrambling, even if it isn't necessarily true. 

 

Edit: Reading that bit now about the idea being Brodie taking a few weeks off the same way Cody did, I wonder if they were supposed to go back and forth for the belt. We'll never know

Edited August 6, 2021 by christopher.annino

[Technico Support]

3 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

You are likely right, but are you ACTUALLY baffled by that narrative? Brodie loses the belt after three weeks in his last match and never appears again before his untimely passing. Seems plausible for people to assume in hindsight that they were scrambling, even if it isn't necessarily true. 

I guess I'm baffled by it as much as I could be baffled by people making any other easily-disproved assumption.  Doubly so, I guess, because it involves someone's death. 

I mean no offense by any of this.  I read your post and said, "wait, that's not right, is it?  I don't remember it that way..."  and then I did like two minutes of Googling.  I don't know, maybe it says something really sad about wrestling's scummy history that a guy was so sick he died something like 70-80 days later and we actually believe some people's top priority, as he was ill and getting worse, was that he had to drop a belt in-ring. 

[Coletti]

You're right, it could have taken a couple seconds of Google searching but I just had it in my head incorrectly. I don't really think it's that baffling, and I'll admit that I'm not exactly a hardcore fan, I watch AEW and read the message board and that's about it for my involvement in pro wrestling fandom. Oh, I listen to Unrestricted too. 

As for the idea of illness being reason to quickly pull the title off of somebody, things like that have happened in the past, and people in the business seem to care about those details. 

No matter what in the end I think it's a little shitty for anybody to be like LOL Cody Wins in that particular scenario, because of what came to be later

[NikoBaltimore]

By all accounts he was fine for the title loss and a few days after losing it he started feeling ill while working out.  Many have said regardless of booking decisions that it was really weird timing that it played out that way.  But I also kind of smile thinking that Brodie's last match was not only a really good one but also involved him suggesting putting Cody over strong.  Hearing about it it shows how selfless he was even in defeat.

[Raziel]

On the flip side, the narrative that there was a scramble to fix the title and that of all the possible things that could have been done, The son of da bull of da woods getting his win back was the final decision doesn't look that great.  

But that can be considered another narrative.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Raziel

[Jiji]

57 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

That's not the case.  From all the timelines I found from summaries of Amanda's podcast interview, and a timeline from Meltzer's story on his passing, Brodie felt ill on a Monday after he'd already dropped the title back to Cody and went right downhill from there, never appearing on TV again.  So Cody won the belt on October 7 and Brodie's symptoms didn't start until after that. 

I don't think I've ever heard anything about him discussing symptoms with anyone prior to losing the title and his wife has been so open that you'd think she'd have mentioned it.  So unless I'm missing something (entirely possible!!!) I'm baffled as to where this narrative of "everyone knew he was sick so he had to lose it back to Cody" came from.

Yeah, nothing about that whole returning the favour felt like a pivot at all to me. Classic Cena/WWF '80s formula taken to the next level of a heel getting one over (though far more dominant) and then the hero triumphantly vindicating themself. I see the same thing happening here. Even after getting squashed, Cody immediately put the spotlight on himself. Thankfully Black came back to whoop that ass one more time. 

Even when he put over Darby for the title it was after physically dominating the match (it is still a top 10 AEW match in my mind! I loved it!) and lost to a rollup rather than a decisive passing of the torch. Far more egregious than that though was that incredibly lame handing over the title to the new champ like he was a gr. 10 drama student taking a bow for such a wonderful performance. Yes, he's elevated talent but dude sure can put people over like Cena and after 15 years of that shit we know it doesn't really help talent all that much in the long run. I thought Cody was one of the promotion's bright spots literally up until he got that tattoo. It's like all the good will he built up went to his head and manifested with that stupid thing. Right after that was the terrible live band entrance and massively disappointing MJF match after an all time classic build. I did like him working with heel elements during his TNT title run though. He's a guy that so obviously needs to turn heel and play into the meta shit of being a big headed fucker that puts the spotlight on himself (don't need to bring abusing the EVP privilege into it either) but so far has refused to do so. In fact you've had heels like QT "Marshahll my ass it's" Marshall talk about how big headed Cody is, so it's like they're swimming upstream at this point. I wouldn't even want him to be the over the top heel. I think you could just tweak his character a small bit and make him a sanctimonious guy that lacks any self awareness as to why he's getting booed. The crowd has, at least audible sections, taken to booing him that even his fake retirement speech got a hey hey hey hey goodbye chant (that admittedly most of the crowd drowned out). That match layout with Ogogo was criminally fucking stupid and HHH levels of over ambitious. I hope he takes a long hiatus at this point. His promos are like the George Clooney smug smog cloud from South Park and I could use a break from them. I am so critical of him because he's capable of being one of the best in the world when he's got his shit together. He improved so much in year one of the promotion and put on one of the great modern matches with his brother. It sucks to see him doing this shit because he's capable of so much more. 

[John from Cincinnati]

17 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I wouldn't even want him to be the over the top heel. I think you could just tweak his character a small bit and make him a sanctimonious guy that lacks any self awareness as to why he's getting booed.

But then I question why they should lean into it in that way if such a move will only rob people of the real bewilderment about how this guy really envisions himself. If you lean into it even a little, make it too explicit that he's in on it, then he's just the Bucks and Kenny winking at everyone and screaming "Yeah, we know."  When right now he's someone who a good chunk of the audience genuinely believe has crawled all the way up his ass. While a sanctimonious Cody heel run would be fun, there's an air of authentic "What the fuck does this asshole think he's doing?" that would be lost, and I'm enjoying it all too much to wish it away. Continued earnest patriotic babyface is the way to go, and let the reactions sort themselves out. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by John from Cincinnati

[EVA]

17 minutes ago, Jiji said:

 

Even when he put over Darby for the title it was after physically dominating the match (it is still a top 10 AEW match in my mind! I loved it!) and lost to a rollup 

In fairness, this is the layout of most Darby matches. Getting his ass kicked and gutting out an ugly win is kind of his thing. He just took an ass beating from Bear Bronson on Dark.

[Jiji]

@John from CincinnatiI fully get your point and even agree. I wouldn't want him to be in on it. That he's oblivious as to why people are booing him or better yet dismissive of it, is great. He should then be working heels that are easy to cheer (wrestling in 2021, baby!) like Miro and Black. But how long can you do that for? It doesn't work well against other babyfaces imo unless the crowd will get 100% behind his opponent and then he's basically working heel at that point. 

@EVAI agree but he almost always puts them away decisively with his coffin drop. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jiji

[Zakk_Sabbath]

@Technico SupportThank you for clarifying the timeline with regard to the Cody match and Brodie's illness/passing, I didn't mean to suggest anything nefarious about it, just a total misconception on my part. 

@Jijiand @John from CincinnatiI'm actually somehow in the position of agreeing with you both, some really excellent points from both of you here on Cody. I tend to err toward the meta so I guess id probably *personally* enjoy that presentation more, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the smart business or creative move.

[John from Cincinnati]

5 minutes ago, Jiji said:

@John from CincinnatiI fully get your point and even agree. I wouldn't want him to be in on it. That he's oblivious as to why people are booing him or better yet dismissive of it, is great. He should then be working heels that are easy to cheer (wrestling in 2021, baby!) like Miro and Black. But how long can you do that for? It doesn't work well against other babyfaces imo unless the crowd will get 100% behind his opponent and then he's basically working heel at that point. 

He was basically working heel against Darby every time out and in many of his TNT title matches and it seemed to work just fine, even if you would prefer clearer lines. And heels like Black gain a lot of buzz and enthusiasm off of people's natural animosity toward Cody. I think there's a utility to using people's weirdness about Cody's current presentation and slotting him in with people of either alignment. People who generate bewildering mixed reactions have a place and are a useful tool. 

And anyway, isn't his continued insistence on presenting himself this way in itself oblivious or dismissive? How much of that needs to be made text when people are already reading it that way? I don't think there's a way to do so without releasing any of that tension with regard to how he's received by the audience. I see no benefit to going more "meta" as it only serves to let people feel they're more in on it, and I don't believe they need to be.

I think Cody "heels and babyfaces are tired old tropes" Rhodes would feels he's depriving his art of something if he were to put himself into a simpler box just because some vocal fans feel deep resentment toward his presentation. With regards to the "creative freedom" everyone always talks about AEW offering, I think I'm growing most happy that Cody's enjoyed this prolonged existence in a space where people have such extreme feelings about him while refusing to conform to their standard ideas about how wrestling should use a person such as himself. 

[zendragon]

The Juvi-Jericho match was as good as could be hoped for. Fun bit of WCW Nostalgia and I'd rather have that then yet another ECW retread.

I love Amanda Nunes reactions to the Dan Lambert stuff, seems like that was her first time seeing pro wrestling and didn't quite know what to make of it. If she decides to retire from MMA it would be kinda interesting to see if she could make the transition.

I bet its a lot of fun for these guys to work with Sting. If you think about it anyone in their 30's was in HS or Jr High when he was doing the big Sting vs NWO feud.

Mark my words this angle with Malaki Black is gonna be Cody getting "retired" and the debut of Mr. American Dream or something Cody so wants to be Hulk Hogan

[zendragon]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:53 PM, MKERyan said:

 

My original point was less about viewership and more about the continued bad booking of the women’s division. Britt is great. But like, she’s a heel? I think? But gets cheered like a face because she’s great.

 

I get the feeling that they are fine with people like Brit and Miro getting tweener reactions. Its kinda refreshing to not have everyone  be a black or white good guy bad guy. One of the high points of the attitude era

[Zakk_Sabbath]

THQ was extremely generous on the abs in those games

[AxB]

I think the resistance to Cody's Super-Babyface act is, his super babyface act is nothing like his Dad, and quite a lot like widely hated Ace Face John Cena.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, AxB said:

I think the resistance to Cody's Super-Babyface act is, his super babyface act is nothing like his Dad, and quite a lot like widely hated Ace Face John Cena.

Dusty use to have shouting matches with some of the jeering fans during the tapings at Techwood Drive. And the greatest thing is they kept it in during the taped shows.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Dusty use to have shouting matches with some of the jeering fans during the tapings at Techwood Drive. And the greatest thing is they kept it in during the taped shows.

There are plenty of fat women in that crowd to rag on too.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

There are plenty of fat women in that crowd to rag on too.

Charles Barkley is #AllElite?

 

12 minutes ago, AxB said:

I think the resistance to Cody's Super-Babyface act is, his super babyface act is nothing like his Dad, and quite a lot like widely hated Ace Face John Cena.

Interesting you mention that, I read that Cody said something on a media call recently about getting advice from a very polarizing top babyface, and I had been wondering if it was Cena.

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Charles Barkley is #AllElite?

Oh, just wait until AEW does a show at Freeman Coliseum or AT&T Center.

[zendragon]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:36 PM, Casey said:

It’s ran by people who give a shit.

I thinks written by people who grew up wrestling fans and understand how it works, as opposed to Hollywood "comedy" writers.

 

I want Malaki Black to taunt Captain America by saying something to the effect of "The American Dream is alive and well in The Netherlands"  

 

[HarryArchieGus]

The Cena comparison to our American Nightmare brings all the necessary clarity needed to the neverending anti-Cody conversation.  This dude wants to be a pure 80s/90s white meat babyface.  He's obviously going for cheers but I don't think he'd mind too much if the younger skewing audience were on board while the forum board wasn't.  The Cody hate and comparisons to yesteryear megalomaniacs (Helmsley, certainly his Pops at times) are completely unfair.  As a recent example, this guy just spent how many months battling the lowest portion of the card.  He also clearly has no issue getting squashed.  Etc etc.  Further he's generally (minus that patriot series) a fantastic promo and generally a good worker.  By in large I dig what he gets up to.  Sure, the baby announcement was lame.  So too the Patriotic sell against Ogogo.  But to me the only real crime he's commited on a Wednesday night was that awful Penta finish.  Especially after the simple and brilliant set-up to that bout. 

Long live Cody Rhodes.  

Edited August 7, 2021 by HarryArchieGus

[The Natural]

Think it was @Curt McGirt who rightly brought up Darby's dives.

Edited August 7, 2021 by The Natural

[The Natural]

 

[BrianS81177]

9 hours ago, zendragon said:

I bet its a lot of fun for these guys to work with Sting. If you think about it anyone in their 30's was in HS or Jr High when he was doing the big Sting vs NWO feud.

The look of sheer glee on Eddie Kingston's face when he was sitting next to David Crockett on Dark, then standing next to Sting on Dynamite was awesome. 

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

The look of sheer glee on Eddie Kingston's face when he was sitting next to David Crockett on Dark, then standing next to Sting on Dynamite was awesome. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by The Natural