OCTOBER 2020 WRESTLING TALK

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I hate when people play games, but when they get one upped in the game they have a tantrum.

[nate]

41 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I hate when people play games, but when they get one upped in the game they have a tantrum.

Facebook, defined.

[HumanChessgame]

edit - nevermind, misread post

Edited October 6, 2020 by HumanChessgame

[DreamBroken]

3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

“2 Cold Scropios”?

As for why? He had a tryout around the late 2000’s, and I remember people talking about it like it was a guarantee he’d be back in McMahon land, but it fell apart between both sides somewhere.

I think he actually was signed back in late 2006 (along with Rodney Mack, Marty Jannetty, Henry Godwinn, and Brad Armstrong) but none of them ever made it back to TV with the exception of Armstrong doing commentary on ECW on SciFi. Scorpio only worked a series of house shows (as Flash Funk) against Gregory Helms and a Smackdown dark match against Paul Burchill. 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Huh, did not know they explained away Johnny B. Badd not being black anymore during a puff piece on Saturday Night. 

 

[ka-to]

4 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

I would LOVE to see Scorpio... anywhere, really. 

Making a dig at Tony Pena while they're using his talent is very WCW of them. 

I think it was more the Mexicans pissed at Pena because he didn't pay them.

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Oh man I forgot all about Promo Azteca! And I don't even think I've seen any of it, either. Anybody have any recommendations? Wasn't the cage death match with Psicosis that was on the DVDVR #100 list there?

There's very little tape of Promo floating around the Interwebs that I've seen, which is weird because they were around for a couple of years with TV on a major network (TV Azteca). For that reason it's hard to recommend anything, although they had a crazy amount of talent and everything should be watchable at the very least. I do remember one taping from Naucalpan that must've been taking place during a monsoon as ringside is literally flooded in water and guys are disappearing everytime they take a bump on the floor.

EDIT: There's some on Dailymotion now. Pick a match and enjoy...

[LoneWolf&Subs]

What I’m most interested in the whole Promo Azteca run was the original concept of having two rival promotions under the banner. One a AAA knock-off that would represent modern lucha, and the other being a more traditional company that was a knock-off of CMLL. It was only at the beginning of its run, and didn’t really take off.   It was like an old Japanese wrestling game that had knock-off wrestlers, and federations, but happening in real life.

[Ziggy]

8 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

I think he actually was signed back in late 2006 (along with Rodney Mack, Marty Jannetty, Henry Godwinn, and Brad Armstrong) but none of them ever made it back to TV with the exception of Armstrong doing commentary on ECW on SciFi. Scorpio only worked a series of house shows (as Flash Funk) against Gregory Helms and a Smackdown dark match against Paul Burchill. 

Why don't I remember Brad Armstrong doing commentary? I was watching ECW at the time alot of people brought it up that he was in the booth but I don't remember.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

58 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Why don't I remember Brad Armstrong doing commentary? I was watching ECW at the time alot of people brought it up that he was in the booth but I don't remember.

It was like only two weeks. One with just him, and Styles, then the following week with Tazz, and Styles. Tazz was not happy whatsoever with Armstrong being put in there, and basically did what Lawler, and Cole did to Striker. Though I don’t think Tazz had issues with Brad, just one of those times where Vince will pit two people together to see them fight for their spots, and attention of Vince.

[Eoae]

9 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Huh, did not know they explained away Johnny B. Badd not being black anymore during a puff piece on Saturday Night. 

 

I feel like I’m missing something.  I’ve watched that clip twice and didn’t see anything that I thought addressed “not being black anymore”.  Race doesn’t even come up.  

[LoneWolf&Subs]

1 hour ago, Eoae said:

I feel like I’m missing something.  I’ve watched that clip twice and didn’t see anything that I thought addressed “not being black anymore”.  Race doesn’t even come up.  

He drops the New York stuff in there, and all the old footage of a young caucasian man boxing. He even does a southern accent when he says Macon, but then drops it when he brings up his New York upbringing.

Edited October 6, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Craig H]

9 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

He drops the New York stuff in there, and all the old footage of a young caucasian man boxing. He even does a southern accent when he says Macon, but then drops it when he brings up his New York upbringing.

That's...not remotely the same thing as addressing someone "not being black anymore" or being a person of color to begin with.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Are you saying that Mero never portrayed a black man as Johnny B. Badd?

[Curt McGirt]

Yeah thanks to Roy Lucier there is a ton of Promo Azteca on there. Just type in "promo azteca dailymotion" and you'll get it. There's a 40 minute Psicosis/La Parka match that sounds very tasty (which since it's lucha you know is definitely not a full 40 minutes of action). 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[Eoae]

47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

That's...not remotely the same thing as addressing someone "not being black anymore" or being a person of color to begin with.

If that footage was supposed to be a subtle way of acknowledging Mero is actually white, it went way over my head.  They did drop a few secs of old footage of Mero's boxing days in the interview, but Mero is fairly swarthy/tan in the clips.  It's not a dramatic difference from his WCW look.  The New York stuff is literally "I grew up in Macon then went to New York."  He may have dropped the accent.  I didn't notice if he did.  His accent in promos was really exaggerated anyway, so I'd kind of expect him to drop it for a sit-down interview.  He's definitely not in character during the segment.  

I don't think that's what they were going for, but who knows.  If I were running a wrestling company that had a white guy tanning up to pretend to be black, I don't think I'd be wanting reverse course and acknowledge that on camera.  Even in the 1990's. the optics of that would be terrible.

Was it widely known at the time that Mero was white?  I assume Meltzer knew and discussed it in the Observer, but I read the Observer off-and-on through the 90's and somehow didn't realize exactly what was going on with the gimmick until sometime in the 2000's.

I kinda groan when I watch Johnny B. Badd matches now because the gimmick is ridiculous and politically incorrect (made all the worse by Badd's *nudge nudge wink wink* "I'm flamboyantly gay" mannerisms), but Mero/Badd was a lot of fun to watch.        

[Elsalvajeloco]

51 minutes ago, Eoae said:

If that footage was supposed to be a subtle way of acknowledging Mero is actually white, it went way over my head.  They did drop a few secs of old footage of Mero's boxing days in the interview, but Mero is fairly swarthy/tan in the clips.  It's not a dramatic difference from his WCW look.  The New York stuff is literally "I grew up in Macon then went to New York."  He may have dropped the accent.  I didn't notice if he did.  His accent in promos was really exaggerated anyway, so I'd kind of expect him to drop it for a sit-down interview.  He's definitely not in character during the segment.  

I don't think that's what they were going for, but who knows.  If I were running a wrestling company that had a white guy tanning up to pretend to be black, I don't think I'd be wanting reverse course and acknowledge that on camera.  Even in the 1990's. the optics of that would be terrible.

Was it widely known at the time that Mero was white?  I assume Meltzer knew and discussed it in the Observer, but I read the Observer off-and-on through the 90's and somehow didn't realize exactly what was going on with the gimmick until sometime in the 2000's.

I kinda groan when I watch Johnny B. Badd matches now because the gimmick is ridiculous and politically incorrect (made all the worse by Badd's *nudge nudge wink wink* "I'm flamboyantly gay" mannerisms), but Mero/Badd was a lot of fun to watch.        

A lot of this is on Dusty because it was Dusty's creation. Dusty use to go up to people and adamantly be like, "Doesn't he look like Little Richard?"

I don't think Dusty really gave a shit because (1) 91 was his first year back as WCW booker, (2) in the same year you got PN News, (3) Herd really loved over-the-top corny gimmicks, and (4) Dusty fashioned himself as a white man acting black and got it over. He probably told Marc how to act and portray the character in the first place.

[Happ Hazzard]

There was a story, presumably on a Mero shoot interview, about him being invited to a Turner function celebrating the African American community (with the likes of Muhammed Ali and Hank Aaron in attendance) and having to be very evasive when asked what race he was.

[Eoae]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

A lot of this is on Dusty because it was Dusty's creation. Dusty use to go up to people and adamantly be like, "Doesn't he look like Little Richard?"

I don't think Dusty really gave a shit because (1) 91 was his first year back as WCW booker, (2) in the same year you got PN News, (3) Herd really loved over-the-top corny gimmicks, and (4) Dusty fashioned himself as a white man acting black and got it over. He probably told Marc how to act and portray the character in the first place.

I actually think Johnny B. Badd would have been huge on late 80's/early 90's WWF.  So many of the guys that got over did so playing these outsized, larger-than-life gimmicks.  Basically, they had personalities you could pair with an over-the-top gimmick and dial it up to 11.  I can imagine Ted DiBiase the Mid-South wrestler getting lost in the shuffle without the Million Dollar Man gimmick and DiBiase's memorable heel laugh.

If they wanted to point out Mero was white, they could easily have shown him with his mother.  In the sit-down, Mero talks about how much winning the World TV Title meant to him and his family, then talks about about celebrating with his mom after the match.  It really seemed like a natural spot to insert a clip of him and her together, but that would probably give away the gimmick.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Mama B. Badd actually later legally changed her name to "Rachel Dolezal"

[John from Cincinnati]

Kurt Angle will be on the Jericho cruise in October of next year. Only a matter of time till he becomes another of AEW's resident elder statesmen? 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Eoae said:

I actually think Johnny B. Badd would have been huge on late 80's/early 90's WWF.  So many of the guys that got over did so playing these outsized, larger-than-life gimmicks.  Basically, they had personalities you could pair with an over-the-top gimmick and dial it up to 11.  I can imagine Ted DiBiase the Mid-South wrestler getting lost in the shuffle without the Million Dollar Man gimmick and DiBiase's memorable heel laugh.

The story will always remain the same: You get as much leash as Vince gives you. If he loves the character, then he will run with it. Then once he falls out of love, that's it for you. The reason why Million Dollar worked (outside of Ted Sr. being immensely talented with an awesome voice) is Vince saw that character as his avatar and an extension of himself. Naturally, that character will be around. I mean DiBiase got to not only stick around three years after he stopped wrestling, but he got to be part of major storylines during the very lean years.

They already had Slick, JYD, Akeem, Bad News Brown, and whatever gimmick intersected with Vince's belief that he knows blackness or how to create black caricatures (real or pretend). However, if you think about it, he didn't really have a major black tag team once WWF got really big. He could have created his version of Doom. He didn't. As far as the absurd "hip, jive talking" white guy, he could have went, got Jimmy Valiant, and threw him out there. However, you know how Vince feels about "rasslin'".

If Vince wasn't fascinated with something, it wasn't making television. 

Quote

If they wanted to point out Mero was white, they could easily have shown him with his mother.  In the sit-down, Mero talks about how much winning the World TV Title meant to him and his family, then talks about about celebrating with his mom after the match.  It really seemed like a natural spot to insert a clip of him and her together, but that would probably give away the gimmick.

The only reason I can see WCW getting off of that is Bischoff doing a CYA and distancing themselves from what happened to end the Watts regime. I don't think there was an appreciation for cultural appropriation back then. PG-13 shows up on television and then five years later, it's Too Cool. The big difference is one act didn't really get over, and the other one did. P.N. News lasted for like a year if that. Marc Mero was there until he talked himself out of a job in 1996. Public Enemy was able to get both WCW and WWF runs that didn't really go anyway because they were so over in ECW for a couple years. If you got over, you had ointment for the insensitive parts of your gimmick.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[Eoae]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The story will always remain the same: You get as much leash as Vince gives you. If he loves the character, then he will run with it. Then once he falls out of love, that's it for you.

So what you're saying is that Hillbilly Jim and the family got over because they reminded Vince of growing up in North Carolina?

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 minutes ago, Eoae said:

So what you're saying is that Hillbilly Jim and the family got over because they reminded Vince of growing up in North Carolina?

Plowboy Frazier aka Uncle Elmer and the rest were all over the first few SNMEs. Then they just weren't featured at all.

[Shartnado]

What was the deal with Mero leaving WCW for WWF rather apruptly in 1996? Talked himself out of a job? Care to elaborate, as I don't think I've ever heard the details on this one, if there are any worth mentioning?