AUG 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[AxB]

What are the reasons for NXT going from being a one hour show on the WWE network, to being a two hour live show on actual TV, that have nothing to do with AEW?

[Eivion]

2 minutes ago, AxB said:

What are the reasons for NXT going from being a one hour show on the WWE network, to being a two hour live show on actual TV, that have nothing to do with AEW?

Roster kept getting bigger with people not getting any time. A tv deal was being looked at/for before AEW even existed and was also I believe what finally made them profitable.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Eivion

[Curt McGirt]

So I guess ADDITIONAL PENALTIES means they're threatening to sue fans that don't abide by The Code of Thunderdome? Ain't that gonna look great. 

We're also out of Talking Smack now officially I guess. No Renee will be as bad as No Bryan. 

EDIT: Knowing them they'll probably go for the worst possible combination and it'll be something like Byron and Rollins.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, AxB said:

What are the reasons for NXT going from being a one hour show on the WWE network, to being a two hour live show on actual TV, that have nothing to do with AEW?

Or out of the blue running Great American Bash over 2 nights to counter program Fyter Fest or Fight for the Fallen or whatever the hell it was. Or any other time they've counterprogrammed literally every national wrestling promotion.

It's just being willfully obtuse to think there was no agenda with the move to USA or anything else they've done. It's the same playbook Vince has run for who knows how long now.

[nofuture]

Also more money being pumped into NXT where they can tape live weekly instead of doing mass tapings.

[Death From Above]

I can't wait until Thunderdome kicks someone off for wearing the tshirt that is just Orange Cassidy's face.

[Craig H]

6 minutes ago, Death From Above said:

I can't wait until Thunderdome kicks someone off for wearing the tshirt that is just Orange Cassidy's face.

Or a Chris Benoit shirt.

[Eivion]

3 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Or out of the blue running Great American Bash over 2 nights to counter program Fyter Fest or Fight for the Fallen or whatever the hell it was. Or any other time they've counterprogrammed literally every national wrestling promotion.

It's just being willfully obtuse to think there was no agenda with the move to USA or anything else they've done. It's the same playbook Vince has run for who knows how long now.

Counter programming against a similar show running on the same night is just common damn sense and is ridiculous to be mad about.

I'm not saying NXT in its current state has nothing to do with AEW, but its just as willfully obtuse to think its purely about AEW while ignoring other factors.

2 minutes ago, nofuture said:

Also more money being pumped into NXT where they can tape live weekly instead of doing mass tapings.

Pretty sure mass tapings for a one hour show are easier than one for a two hour show.

[Niners Fan in CT]

14 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Have numbers for how many watched NXT live or otherwise on the network ever been released? Beyond that the point is that the other side of the argument that they only did to hurt AEW is ridiculous. It ignores too many other factors.

Well I remember seeing repeats of PPVs outperforming NXT on their top ten most watched lists so it couldn't have been more than maybe a couple hundred thousand any given week. 

What's interesting to me is just how awful NXT's 18-49 demos have gotten.  They aren't even charting some weeks now. Sure, they will get that trusty 700,000 who are likely 50+ who also watch RAW and Smackdown religiously but they are done bringing in new viewers.. 

NXT used to thrive because it was bringing in new viewers.  Now it's just the same old heads that watch any WWE show. Not looking good for the future.  AEW is more than doubling the key demographics. AEW is being watched mostly by younger fans. 

[Eivion]

2 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

NXT used to thrive because it was bringing in new viewers. 

Was this really the case or more of an assumption? I never got the feeling NXT was bringing in new viewers. The show was seeming made in the form it was to attract the hardcore types who look beyond WWE in the first place. They aren't new to WWE.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Eivion

[Niners Fan in CT]

20 minutes ago, SturmCRF said:

I know the Sonya Deville stalker sounds particularly disturbed, but you only have to look at the replies to any of the WWE women's social media to realise how impossible it'd be to preemptively get psychiatric help for everyone displaying signs of obsessive and creepy behaviour. Honestly, I think the sort of fan culture that has sprung up in the last ten years or so alongside Twitter, especially, is fucking alarming. There's a whole world of lunatics out there who think they're entitled to famous people's attention if they try hard enough to 'earn' it, and even if 99% of them are harmless, that leaves a scary amount who might be far from it.

I think people might have always been this crazy but you're right that social media has given them an outlet to act on their craziness. I think it's especially dangerous because on social media and other places they are surrounding themselves with people who are as nuts as they are.. they don't believe they need any help they believe they are somehow wronged by the rest of society. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

8 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Was this really the case or more of an assumption? I never got the feeling NXT was bringing in new viewers. The show was seeming made in the form it was to attract the hardcore types who look beyond WWE in the first place. They aren't new to WWE.

Well whoever they are they are younger than the average WWE fan and are the people who WWE should be targeting, right? 

[OSJ]

On 8/12/2020 at 12:00 PM, Hagan said:

Totally random ECW question but does anyone remember the episodes where:

- Corino accuses Dusty in a promo of cutting Magnum TA's brakes.

- Joey is doing commentary with either Cyrus or Gertner (I think) and one of them says "like the Cowboy say "let's string 'em up" and Joey start screaming "it's hook 'em up, it's hook 'em up."

Those two rank with New Jack's OJ promo as some of  the most hilariously inappropriate one-off lines I can recall.  

Oddly enough I vividly remember Corino's promo and thinking "You can't go there... Oh, you just did!" But no recollection of the second incident. Truth to tell, that would have just flown under my radar.

Wrestling needs more promo guys like New Jack. "What are you planning for your opponent tonight?" "Planning? I'm planning to kill the motherfucker, that's what I'm planning!"

[Eivion]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Well whoever they are they are younger than the average WWE fan and are the people who WWE should be targeting, right? 

Well I suppose, but realistically they should be targeting everyone they can.

[EVA]

 Even in its glory days, the NXT weekly show was booked and stylized as a retro studio show, which is not something that’s going to appeal to most people who don’t already hold some nostalgia for that style (aka us olds).  I don’t think it was ever built to appeal to young fans, just fans who wanted something different from the main roster style.  Now that it’s just the main roster style without the stars, a lot of people have just moved on.  Either you want 2 more hours of that in your week, or you don’t.

[Dewar]

26 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Or a Chris Benoit shirt.

I mean, they should. Anyone still wearing Benoit shirts doesn't deserve any positive attention. 

[Craig H]

Just now, EVA said:

 Even in its glory days, the NXT weekly show was booked and stylized as a retro studio show, which is not something that’s going to appeal to most people who don’t already hold some nostalgia for that style (aka us olds).  I don’t think it was ever built to appeal to young fans, just fans who wanted something different from the main roster style.  Now that it’s just the main roster style without the stars, a lot of people have just moved on.  Either you want 2 more hours of that in your week, or you don’t.

And for me, I just kinda don't anymore. At first I thought Lumis had a cool gimmick, but now I think it's lame. Dream inexplicably keeps being pushed. The NA title picture is...somewhat interesting and retains some of that old NXT feel so that's fine. And I was all in for Keith Lee's run until it looked like he would just be a transitional champion to drop the title to a guy that actually should have just gone to Raw or SmackDown.

By the way, remember when we all said that Kross had a cool entrance, but we could see it getting old fast? Yeah, that totally happened. His in ring style is growing on me a bit more, but he feels way too much like a Raw or SmackDown guy.

[Niners Fan in CT]

4 minutes ago, EVA said:

 Even in its glory days, the NXT weekly show was booked and stylized as a retro studio show, which is not something that’s going to appeal to most people who don’t already hold some nostalgia for that style (aka us olds).  I don’t think it was ever built to appeal to young fans, just fans who wanted something different from the main roster style.  Now that it’s just the main roster style without the stars, a lot of people have just moved on.  Either you want 2 more hours of that in your week, or you don’t.

I don't disagree with this but it captured the attention of younger fans due to I don't want to say Puro style.. but whatever they were doing,  PWG I guess is the best comparison. 

[Mario Hobb]

33 minutes ago, AxB said:

What are the reasons for NXT going from being a one hour show on the WWE network, to being a two hour live show on actual TV, that have nothing to do with AEW?

Money.  The way Meltzer told it, USA wanted to add WWE programming to offset the loss of Smackdown without actually spending the sort of money it would have taken to better Fox's offer.    Slotting in NXT to replace Smackdown looked like a win for both companies (WWE had already been looking at ways to increase NXT's brand awareness, most likely by getting it on tv somewhere).

I do wonder what kind of numbers they'd pull if they weren't competing with AEW.  We might get some insight into that this month.  If they're on Wed solely to pull viewers away from AEW, it seems counterproductive - assuming they really could get a better rating on another night.  On the other hand, they might have been concerned about viewer fatigue and competition from other sports.  

I'm really curious about what sort of bump NXT gets the next few weeks since it won't be competing head-to-head with AEW.  I'm guessing it will be less than Vince expects (though, with the pandemic, I'm amazed they've retained as much of the audience as they have.  I find crowdless wrestling mostly lifeless).

[caley]

Renee’s finest moment. 

I’m bummed that I don’t have the longer version with Jim Johnston getting increasingly frustrated with Nikki and just feeding her the lines and pointing in the air to get her to hit s higher note and Nikki, being Nikki, copies the hand gesture rather than adjusting her voice.  I never watched Total Divas but this turned up on The Soup and just SLAYED me. 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, nofuture said:

WCW was a much bigger threat then and the financial dynamics are completely different now.  Vince had a gun to the back of his head back then and needed to adapt or the reality of closing shop was possible.  Right now WWE is probably at it's most financially secure spot ever.  The boat might have a leak, but Vince is going to sail that boat as far as possible.

Really good point and you're absolutely correct.  WWE was coming off a few disastrous years when WCW came to real prominence.  Now AEW is coming up but WWF is in a far different place.  They're like my cat.  When she was young and living on the streets, you can bet she hunted mice or whatever.  Now she's old and fat and sleeps on my kid's bed all day.  There's no fight in her because she knows she's got guaranteed food coming.

 

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

Have numbers for how many watched NXT live or otherwise on the network ever been released? Beyond that the point is that the other side of the argument that they only did to hurt AEW is ridiculous. It ignores too many other factors.

LOLWUT

NXT moved to USA shortly before AEW was set to debut in the exact same time slot.  The goal was absolutely to kill AEW in the ratings so TNT wouldn't give them a deal.  They didn't get a real TV deal until January, based on performance.  If NXT would have been successful in taking significant numbers from AEW, AEW would be gone by now.  To think that wasn't the plan is just being willfully obtuse.

 

1 hour ago, SturmCRF said:

I know the Sonya Deville stalker sounds particularly disturbed, but you only have to look at the replies to any of the WWE women's social media to realise how impossible it'd be to preemptively get psychiatric help for everyone displaying signs of obsessive and creepy behaviour. Honestly, I think the sort of fan culture that has sprung up in the last ten years or so alongside Twitter, especially, is fucking alarming. There's a whole world of lunatics out there who think they're entitled to famous people's attention if they try hard enough to 'earn' it, and even if 99% of them are harmless, that leaves a scary amount who might be far from it.

Really good points, all these.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Technico Support

[odessasteps]

Wasnt Renee leaving a foregone conclusion once Moxley left? Just a matter of when. 

[nofuture]

Apparently they had big plans for her, but COVID hit.

[dragonzombie]

 

[Eivion]

6 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

NXT moved to USA shortly before AEW was set to debut in the exact same time slot.  The goal was absolutely to kill AEW in the ratings so TNT wouldn't give them a deal.  They didn't get a real TV deal until January, based on performance.  If NXT would have been successful in taking significant numbers from AEW, AEW would be gone by now.  To think that wasn't the plan is just being willfully obtuse.

The show was already on Wednesdays. The time it started airing was basically the same time it did before. They were already talking about it moving to tv before AEW existed. Why would they move it to any other day but Wednesday or change the air time?  I get you despise WWE, but not everything they do is to spite you or what you like. They do have an actual business to run however much we disagree with how they run it.