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JANUARY 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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5 hours ago, Swiftian said:

Graves and Renee are best buds behind the scenes anyway.

You can even hear the two reconcile in mumbled voices after one of their "heated" exchanges.

 

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1 hour ago, nate said:

A slight counterpoint, that I'll preface with the admission that I don't buy the outrage from Renee.  But I do know from personal experiences that, when you have tempers flare at the workplace, you have to be extremely careful what you say or any verbal misfire - no matter how minor - can be used in an HR case.  Often, you find yourself trying to find as many gender-neutral, non-insulting, in no way condescending words and phrases as you can to avoid getting your ass chewed out.  And it gets worse if the argument isn't quickly resolved and emotions continue to flare.

I got the sense that Renee was trying to convey "professional trying to express her mounting frustration, getting the sense that this asshole isn't listening to her".  I give her a 4.5/10.

At the same time, though, the problem is that in that storyline, Corey Graves was...kind of right to do what he was doing there.

By definition, we're supposed to assume the announcers are broadcast journalists.

The whole storyline with this was "Why did Dean Ambrose do this? Why did he turn his back on his brothers in the Shield, the same night Roman Reigns announced his leukemia diagnosis?", and Ambrose was refusing to give anyone any answers to that question.

Meanwhile, at the same announce table with you, one of your colleagues on the table is known to be Dean Ambrose's wife...aka, the ONE PERSON ON EARTH who would absolutely, unequivocally know EXACTLY what was going on with Dean Ambrose at that time and would be able to shed some light on the situation when Ambrose refused to do so...and hell, EVEN IF RENEE REACTED DIFFERENTLY, that would still explain SO MUCH about the Dean Ambrose situation ("...is Dean Ambrose so far lost that even his own wife can't reach him? Is Dean telling Renee to keep quiet about this? Are...are there problems at home, and he's FORCING her to remain silent?")

And yet, she was shutting it down in the worst possible way, by saying "Even if this is my job, I'm not telling you because I don't think you need to know this answer"...heck, by that argument, Renee was probably the heel in this instance and Corey was the face.

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8 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

And yet, she was shutting it down in the worst possible way, by saying "Even if this is my job, I'm not telling you because I don't think you need to know this answer"...heck, by that argument, Renee was probably the heel in this instance and Corey was the face.

It's obvious Renee's non-answer is because they have no clue how to reconcile a heel character who is IRL married to a babyface announcer, and no interest in dealing with it in any creative way. 

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This discussion about Renee also makes me wonder if commentary during Dean's matches being driven to discuss Dean and Renee is another reason he wants to leave. I can't recall one instance where I thought it was cool or anything and it always comes off as really fucking lame. If I'm Dean and announcing is such an important part of a production, then I would be thinking that shit is just never going to change and rather than call the match, Vince is just going to have Corey and Renee argue about Dean every time.

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5 hours ago, Technico Support said:

It's obvious Renee's non-answer is because they have no clue how to reconcile a heel character who is IRL married to a babyface announcer, and no interest in dealing with it in any creative way. 

Just to be clear, I thought that Raw segment where they go after Renee Young for her Ambrose relationship was awful. And yeah, pretty much what Technico Support says. They should never have acknowledged on TV that Ambrose and Renee Young are married IRL. Because now you have all these dumb awkward moments on TV where Corey Graves is "confronting" her about her relationship with Dean Ambrose, and Renee Young doesn't know how to respond. 

Because 1) when Renee Young is in love with a man who proudly proclaims that Roman Reigns deserves to die of leukemia and having almost no reaction to that, it sort of makes her look like a scumbag or 2) it makes her look like a bleeding idiot when she is married to Dean and has no idea what's going on with him and never talks with him about it or 3) it makes her look like a poor abused victim of evil Dean Ambrose like Miss Elizabeth and Macho Man.

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Regarding Hideo, I thought he was actually getting over with the crowd pretty good right up until the first NXT injury and then Finn just slid right in there and the rest is history.

I did really like his match with Roode at the first Chicago Takeover. But he's still pretty dope and he'll do some dope stuff wherever he goes next.

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I broke out my Hideo Itami shirt today. One of my favorite designs WWE has had in recent years.

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1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Did they reveal who attacked him in NXT?

The problem is I thought it was obvious in retrospect:

Samoa Joe debuted that night as Finn Balor's friend in the main event. (He was never sold as Itami's friend.)

Joe put himself in the title picture, and the second Balor won the title, Joe turned heel for a title shot, and stayed a heel since then.

It was obvious it had to be Samoa Joe. 

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So where’s Bray Wyatt? He did some house shows, but hasn’t been seen since. 

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1 minute ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

So where’s Bray Wyatt? He did some house shows, but hasn’t been seen since. 

Reportedly waiting on creative to have a plan for him.

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22 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Reportedly waiting on creative to have a plan for him.

Are we sure he's not Bryan's Mania opponent?

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1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

Reportedly waiting on creative to have a plan for him.

In that case, we're never seeing him again.

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I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in the world that recognizes that wrestling has always been at it's hottest when the characters and storylines of the program align with current cultural climate/themes.

And it's also not a secret that almost every single person walking today thinks that there are two groups of people in the world and that one side is trying to gaslight the other side (and their own) to gain power.

And somehow this company has a character that is a "cult leader" in Bray Wyatt and they can't figure out how to make that work. And that story doesn't have to be political in the slightest.

Whatever.

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I remember when it came out that Kane was super into politics, and was a Libertarian, I wanted them to repackage him, and incorporate that into an angle. Something like him using his real first name, and doing a Piper Pit parody of The Glen Beck Show. Then somehow moving it into a story where Glenn runs for Mayor of Death Valley, which results in him winning, and then you can have years of angles where they use topical political stories to fuel it. Also re-elections, impeachments, etc...

Too late now!

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1 hour ago, joseph2112 said:

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in the world that recognizes that wrestling has always been at it's hottest when the characters and storylines of the program align with current cultural climate/themes.

And it's also not a secret that almost every single person walking today thinks that there are two groups of people in the world and that one side is trying to gaslight the other side (and their own) to gain power.

And somehow this company has a character that is a "cult leader" in Bray Wyatt and they can't figure out how to make that work. And that story doesn't have to be political in the slightest.

Whatever.

I don’t think you’re the only one that recognizes it.

The problem is that anytime companies try to do something topical they’re immediately flamed online by dirtsheet writers and their sheep among others.

When Killer Kross debuted for Impact in that vignette where he was dressed as a fake cop and took out “Peter” Williams... I wanted them to go full bore with it and have him be a former corrupt, sociopathic cop who was kicked off the force for crossing too many lines.

Can’t imagine that would go over too well. And I can only imagine the reactions online to the above Kane idea— which I really like.

Whenever wrestling does anything out of the box its immediately shat on. 

 

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The problem with running angles that alienate hardcore fans is that the hardcore fans are the only ones left watching--for better and worse--and casuals essentially no longer exist as a market. Also, WWE has gotten a business-shifting TV deal and massive ad revenue compared to their more crash-TV, politically controversial days. Playing it safer has worked.

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Pretty sure DDP said on Jericho’s pod that Bray was rehabbing at his PC. I think after Matt Hardy half-retired he took the opportunity to take care of some lingering injuries.

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The problem is that this new TV network has higher ratings expectations and WWE has not shown an ability to grow a TV audience with the play it safe approach. 

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2 minutes ago, Thibs said:

The problem is that this new TV network has higher ratings expectations and WWE has not shown an ability to grow a TV audience with the play it safe approach. 

All of the reporting indicates FOX wants them trending in a more "real sport" direction, not less. That may not be your preference and it may be a disaster, but they knew what they were buying.

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Just now, Beech27 said:

All of the reporting indicates FOX wants them trending in a more "real sport" direction, not less. That may not be your preference and it may be a disaster, but they knew what they were buying.

I think Meltzer was the one that said that. IMO that sounds like him continuing to push what he wants. 

Either way, they want ratings. And higher ratings then they’re getting now. So I guess we’ll have to wait and see what kind of ratings a real sport presentation will get if that’s indeed what they want.

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This @EN090 renaissance is the shits.

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16 minutes ago, Thibs said:

I think Meltzer was the one that said that. IMO that sounds like him continuing to push what he wants. 

Either way, they want ratings. And higher ratings then they’re getting now. So I guess we’ll have to wait and see what kind of ratings a real sport presentation will get if that’s indeed what they want.

All other things being equal, higher ratings are better. But it wasn't just Meltzer reporting this--even if you want to hand wave him away because he's reporting something you don't like. You can look to various other MMA outlets talking about Cormier announcing, football writers talking about Miz cross promoting on NFL pregame shows, and even the official press release quoting Vince and FOX execs saying Smackdown will be a part of their "sports portfolio" and "FOX sports family." It's pretty clear they think the way to ratings is to leverage a live sports audience.

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6 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

All other things being equal, higher ratings are better. But it wasn't just Meltzer reporting this--even if you want to hand wave him away because he's reporting something you don't like. You can look to various other MMA outlets talking about Cormier announcing, football writers talking about Miz cross promoting on NFL pregame shows, and even the official press release quoting Vince and FOX execs saying Smackdown will be a part of their "sports portfolio" and "FOX sports family." It's pretty clear they think the way to ratings is to leverage a live sports audience.

And those examples are fair. We’ll have to see if it draws. I don’t think it will be we’ll see.

Regarding Meltzer— not hand waving him away because he reported something I don’t like. More so because he’s got a history of pushing a narrative based on what he likes.

The other examples you gave make sense. 

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Is that Meltzer “Reporting”, or is that Dave giving an opinion. Because sometimes I think people confuse the two.

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