[NOV 2016] WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[Evil Otto]

On 11/10/2016 at 0:19 PM, The Green Meanie said:

Rock Steadfast

 

I think I have to admit, I'd pay good, hard-earned money to watch a guy named Bolt Vanderhuge.  For the name alone.  Such a moniker screams "Champion Of The Universe".

[RIPPA]

Quote

On Thursday, U.S. District Judge Vanessa Bryant dismissed wrongful death lawsuits against WWE filed by Michelle James, the girlfriend of Matt Osborne, and Cassandra Frazier, the widow of Nelson Frazier Jr. 

Osborne, best known as "Maniac" Matt Borne and the original Doink the Clown, passed away on June 28, 2013, in Plano, TX, from an accidental opiate overdose at the age of 55.

Frazier, who wrestled as Viscera, Mabel and Big Daddy V among other names, passed away due to a heart attack at age 43 while in the shower at his home on February 18, 2014.

In both cases, the lawsuit was a claim that both men suffered brain injuries while working for WWE that in some form led to their early deaths. In both cases, neither wrestler's brains were examined after death to see if there was an issue with CTE.

Bryant ruled that James didn't provide facts that would indicate that Osborne had CTE or his overdose death was in any related to that CTE. Frazier was cremated without an autopsy.

She also ruled that a wrongful death action can only be taken by an executor or an administrator, and James, who had a child with Osborne but was not married to him, was neither. She stated that the court may have considered allowing a re-filing of the case using family members but declined to allow it, stating the case would be futile as the lawyers have not plead a plausible cause of action.

With Frazier, the case was dismissed because the planitiffs failed to allege a plausible casual relationship between his death and any wrongful acts by WWE.

Bryant noted that the lawsuit stated that "upon information and belief" both Frazier and Osborne had CTE, but neither lawsuit contained any information where such a belief could be derived. With no diagnosis of either man, she wrote that it was impossible to plausibly allege, much less prove, that either man developed CTE from their tenure working for the company.

She also noted that the complaint failed to establish any link between CTE and Frazier's heart failure, and the allegation that Frazier could have survived the heart attack if he didn't have CTE was "another bald and baseless allegation, which the court deems unworthy of the barest measure of credibility."

While Bryant wrote that lawyer Konstantine Kyros' "false and misleading statements" were "highly unprofessional," she did deny the WWE's request to take sanctions against him regarding these cases.

However, she wrote, "The court admonishes Kyros and his co-counsel to adhere to the standards of professional conduct and to applicable rule and court orders lest they risk future sanctions or referral to the Disciplinary Committee of this court."

 

[Spritenaut 32]

An attorney actually went to court with that?

I didn't real the court filings so it's a little unfair to blast the attorney, but, based on that article, there's clearly nothing there that's actionable.  In the case of Frazier, there's certainly no way to prove CTE now and the theory that concussion trauma contributed to his death is silly given Frazier's weight and probable health issues (I don't know much specifically about his medical condition, but, given his weight, it's not a reach to generalize that he may have had blocked arteries, a weak heart, high blood pressure, maybe diabetes, etc.).

And then there's the issue of standing.  I can't imagine a first-year law student would pass if he drafted a complaint that was basically unprovable and where the plaintiffs lacked standing to file suit in the first place.

I've said before that concussion lawsuits against the WWE are going to be an uphill battle.  Most wrestlers work years in other places before they hit the WWE and go back to the indys after they're released.  If you explain to a judge or - especially - a jury the number of places and conditions a Daniel Bryan worked in before the WWE signed him, and the punishment he took in those other matches, it's going to be hard to convincingly argue that the CTE symptoms aren't possibly attributable to concussions suffered elsewhere.  The CTE may well be related to concussions Danielson or whoever suffered in WWE rings, but it's hard to prove that when the defendant wrestled hundreds of matches in a ten year span for 12 or 15 different promotions in the US, then went to Japan, England, Mexico, Germany, etc. and wrestled for companies there.  A jury's going to think - probably correctly - that the defendant probably damaged himself well before he signed with the WWE.

[Godfrey]

Wouldn't the only way to prove WWE was reponsible would be to have a documented clean bill of health at the time of signing and then a new scan after every questionable bump so you can show they are directly related to concussions? I'm obviously not a lawyer, but it seems your case has to be pretty waterproof before you can make an accusation like that stick.

[Ace]

It's actually Kyros' gimmick. He's been throwing suit after suit at WWE. All of them getting thrown out.

 

[RIPPA]

I just watched 12 minutes of R-Truth wandering around a house show looking for bone-in chicken and it was way more entertaining than it had any right to be.

[DTTW]

4 hours ago, Godfrey said:

Wouldn't the only way to prove WWE was reponsible would be to have a documented clean bill of health at the time of signing and then a new scan after every questionable bump so you can show they are directly related to concussions? I'm obviously not a lawyer, but it seems your case has to be pretty waterproof before you can make an accusation like that stick.

Since Roman worked almost nowhere else, won't that give him a huge leg up in 20 years?

[RIPPA]

1 minute ago, DTTW said:

Since Roman worked almost nowhere else, won't that give him a huge leg up in 20 years?

No - because he played football at length (and at a high level)

[joseph2112]

And to add...it's not like WWE is in the old school business of blowing off concussions and the like. If the company does due diligence for injuries, no one is at fault. 

[Sammo~!]

I guess it's arguable that the CFL counts as "high level" football (I keed, I keed)

[odessasteps]

Concussions only do 70% of the brain damage as in the nfl. 

[Phantom Lord]

I can't understand how any lawyer takes a case like this (ethics aside) with no evidence. The most important piece of evidence in CTE is the brain and they cremated Vicera's body with no autopsy. CTE at the moment doesn't show up on MRI's on living patients. It can only be found on postmortem exams. The guy must be a real ambulance chaser to take that widow's money.

Let's be honest. The guy was 43 and over 500 lbs. That's what killed him. He could have had CTE like wrestlers and football players do, but brain damage isn't gonna over come heart disease and stuff.

[Spritenaut 32]

Did WWE have rigorous concussion protocols 15 years ago, when guys like Raven worked for the company?

Also, as said, CTE can only be conclusively diagnosed after death.   WWE's testing basically shows whether they're currently having severe concussion-related symptoms or not (as well as other physical problems).  WWE supposedly made an offer to Kairi Hojo recently.  Hojo's had two documented concussions in the past year alone.  She's taken her share of crazy bumps in Japan, plus regularly saws little joshi workers in half with a ridiculous spear (Goldberg-sized).  If she ends up working for WWE, and is later found to have CTE, it's beyond me how you figure out what level of trauma was suffered in Stardom, and what the WWE is responsible for.

[The Nature Boy]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/11/12/former-wwe-diva-joins-lawsuit-alleges-sexual-abuse-brain-injuries/DxKRDb8reXsjH5ACJZExKN/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Afacebook

Ashley Massaro is joining the "sue WWE" train. She's alleging sexual assault and concussions.

[DTTW]

Has this been discussed before?

 

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

That's the first I'm seeing it. My two takeaways are 1) it kind of explains a lot and 2) I like that guy way more now

[Web Conn]

Russo being a weed smoker makes too much sense.

[zev]

Ok so what all did he smoke to endure writing any episodes of Nitro?

 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

20 minutes ago, zev said:

Ok so what all did he smoke to endure writing any episodes of Nitro?

 

PCP

[zev]

Is that why he's known for matches that involved Poles, Cages, and more Poles?

[Peck]

1 hour ago, zev said:

Is that why he's known for matches that involved Poles, Cages, and more Poles?

I assume you're referring to Scott Putski's push in 1997....

[zev]

6 minutes ago, Peck said:

I assume you're referring to Scott Putski's push in 1997....

Nope.

[DTTW]

From Scott Keith's observer review 

Also at the tapings, Steve Williams got into a weird altercation with the referee, as he was throwing jobbers around after a squash and hit the ref, who completely no-sold it.  So Doc kicked him and hit him with a chair to no effect, and the ref actually took him down in a shoot until Doc kicked him in the face to make him sell.  And then they fought AGAIN in the dressing room, with the ref screaming at him to fight and they brawled until other guys broke it up. 

 

Given this was pre Brawl for All...who was crazy enough to try Doc Death?

[sydneybrown]

Is that referring to this?  Williams hits a ref with a chair who no-sells it, and Steve loses his shit and starts SMASHING him in the head with it.  Then the other wrestlers have to save the ref from getting legit killed.

 

[cwoy2j]

2 hours ago, DTTW said:

From Scott Keith's observer review 

Also at the tapings, Steve Williams got into a weird altercation with the referee, as he was throwing jobbers around after a squash and hit the ref, who completely no-sold it.  So Doc kicked him and hit him with a chair to no effect, and the ref actually took him down in a shoot until Doc kicked him in the face to make him sell.  And then they fought AGAIN in the dressing room, with the ref screaming at him to fight and they brawled until other guys broke it up. 

 

Given this was pre Brawl for All...who was crazy enough to try Doc Death?

Shit, even post Brawl for All, I can't imagine why people would've tried Doc. I know he got KTFO by Bart Gunn but IIRC, he was pretty banged up even before Brawl for All. Even then, I wouldn't have fucked with him.