EVA Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Pretty sure the NARCOOOOOOS call was Chris Ryan's thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've worked in a lot of newsrooms. I haven't been in anything nearly as bigtime as Grantland, obviously. But I've seen ego battles and ego trips at like the chintziest weekly newspapers or most obscure trade publications. I don't even know how it compares to other industries. But I can't imagine there's anything that attracts more self-important people willing to scheme and play petty games than the media. I can see why the writers would love Bill Simmons. He gave them a good job and a good forum. But I'd be really pissed if his ego clash with whatever executive ended up harming my livelihood. And I'd be pissed as shit if learned he engineered some sort of coup where four of my editors (and, most likely, I'd directly work with one) jumped ship in the middle of the night without telling anyone. The publisher at this one paper I worked at was this total dope. He made us call him "The Dude" because his favorite movie was The Big Lebowski. Imagine having to call your 50-year-old boss that. Ugh. Anyways, he decided he wanted to "revolutionize" this really insignificant newspaper. I walk in on Monday, and all of our desks have been moved and there are a bunch of new faces lined up. I now have a new editor, out of nowhere. My old editor stayed on board (she had a lot of people in the town we covered who liked her) but she was pushed into a made-up position to humiliate her. It turned out okay because my new editor was a good and talented guy (albeit with a bad drinking problem). But that adjustment period was insane. And my new editor used to work for my old editor and they hated each other. So now there was this whole divide-and-conquer nonsense going on, and no one felt safe being caught talking to the wrong person at the water cooler. And this is at a place with amazingly tiny stakes.I sat next to this other reporter Suzanne. She was really talented and a workhorse. (60 hour weeks while making $25,000 a year!) But she switched a quote in a story -- attributed words in an interview to the wrong person -- and this guy made a stink to the old editor. And my old editor decided to use this as a way to put knocks into the new editor. I mean, you don't want to make mistakes like that but sometimes shit happens. That's what correction boxes are for. However, the old editor managed to get in The Dude's head that "we needed to do more" to reestablish trust in the community. So we ended up writing a big story on the front page (possibly at the top, if memory is correct) explaining the error with this fake apology quote from Suzanne. She ended up giving her notice and everyone else on the staff (especially me) were really pissed and they couldn't understand that "humiliating your best reporter" isn't a wise strategy. But, hey, someone's ego was hurt a few months before and she got to extract revenge on the guy who replaced her. It was just a fucking mess the rest of the time I worked at that place.Imagine that, but now as part of a highly visible wing of the largest sports media empire in the world, which is part of the largest media empire in the world. And also factor in there are an ever-shrinking amount of writing jobs available. And your old boss -- who gave you a big break -- was on the losing side of a pissing contest and was now putting an axe into the place he used to run. That's one of the shittiest things imaginable. Someone like Holly Anderson or whoever doesn't have any way to survive something like that, and that's absolute horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I studied journalism in college, and essentially I've found that a lot journalists are essentially politicians that no one would ever elect. There is just an abundance of people who want to hold everyone accountable, without taking into account that they are essentially the least accountable people on the planet. Just a bunch of alcoholic, borderline racist, overwhelmingly sexist, people telling other people how they should behave. Those people make the industry unbearable, but then there are the others who just want to tell stories. I'm convinced that the storytelling, in it for the craft, journalists are the best group of people to have a drink with. You might think you know some of the crazy shit going on in the world, but until you get someone who dedicated their lives to putting all that crazy into words a little liquored up, you have no idea. The story about how someone got decapitated by a malfunctioning elevator is crazy, the story of the woman who was stuck in the elevator with the severed head is better. It is an industry that attracts some of the most eccentric, out of touch people, but also some of the most fun people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I don't know enough journalists to give definite opinions. From what you guys said above though, it does remind me of some comedians, who can dish it out on anyone at anytime, but, by the same token, can be some of the most sensitive people when others start criticizing their work. I don't like to generalize though so I made sure to say 'some". I'm safe now right? Andy Greenwald had some good interviews on Grantland (i.e. Mr. Robot ones), though sometimes the praise and love he shows his guests went overboard to me. Don't always agree with his HOT TAKES and opinions, but he always seem as if he was a genuine, nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You're all a bunch of wimps with the writing skills of a modern day L. Ron Hubbard mixed with Ayn Rand! Yeah, take that. I can't even fathom what that would be like. 3,000 page horrid sci-fi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I have my feet in both the worlds of journalism and comedy. They cross over really well, since they're both predicated around observing human nature and developing a definitive voice. I know a fair amount of writers and journalists who have drinking and drug issues. There's just a whole culture old newshounds talk about in journalism classes and what have you that romanticizes the behavior.Comedians also drink a ton. Most open mics and a lot of shows are at bars. And part of the compensation is alcohol. And a lot of part-time/aspiring comics have day jobs but can't get on a mic until midnight. Or if they're touring, they're stuck in a motel for a few days in some town where there's not a lot going on. It leads to some really bad habits.I would say that 80% of the journalists I have worked with have been great people who are super smart and talented and fun and quirky. But there's a really annoying 20% that take themselves way too seriously. Consequently, a bunch of this 20% I either went to college with or met along the way have climbed the ranks to certain degrees. You really need to have some sort of out-sized ego to make it in the sports media (and media in general). There's nothing wrong with competition but it attracts some truly insufferable people.I wrote for Madison Square Garden for a while. I decided to get out of sports when I had to cover NY Giants training camp. I was trapped in the U of Albany computer lab with football beat writers. All the job really consisted of was hanging out waiting for Eli Manning to talk about how practice was going. Some of these guys had such attitudes and gave me total brush-offs. Hanging out with journalists is way more fun than hanging out with comedians. That is for certain. A lot of comics are absolute messes. A lot will just want to talk about how awful their sets went. A lot won't even talk because they're in some depressive episode. The percentage of comics who can talk about anything -- like, say, sports -- other than comedy is really small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 So what is Simmons supposed to do? Continue on as ESPN's puppet? He created Grantland. He created 30/30. Those were probably the only things besides live games that I cared about. Instead of pointing the finger at Simmons maybe point the finger at the execs who want to give Goodell a pass for reprehensible behavior? Part of journalism is writing and discussing things that the public should be made aware of regardless of who it might piss off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 So what is Simmons supposed to do? Continue on as ESPN's puppet? He created Grantland. He created 30/30. Those were probably the only things besides live games that I cared about. Instead of pointing the finger at Simmons maybe point the finger at the execs who want to give Goodell a pass for reprehensible behavior? Part of journalism is writing and discussing things that the public should be made aware of regardless of who it might piss off. ESPN is run by creeps. They could probably save Grantland by laying off Skip Bayless. The world is worse for their programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Plus let's not continue the narrative of "Bill Simmons: Valiant Crusader Against The Evil Roger Goodell" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 This just seems like latest example of Smmons xhibiting sefiish Only Child Syndrome.* * said as an only child 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincey Greene Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Plus let's not continue the narrative of "Bill Simmons: Valiant Crusader Against The Evil Roger Goodell" Well, something is better than nothing. He made a stand that he had to know would cost him and it did. Maybe not valiant but definitely ballsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I have my feet in both the worlds of journalism and comedy. They cross over really well, since they're both predicated around observing human nature and developing a definitive voice. I know a fair amount of writers and journalists who have drinking and drug issues. There's just a whole culture old newshounds talk about in journalism classes and what have you that romanticizes the behavior. Comedians also drink a ton. Most open mics and a lot of shows are at bars. And part of the compensation is alcohol. And a lot of part-time/aspiring comics have day jobs but can't get on a mic until midnight. Or if they're touring, they're stuck in a motel for a few days in some town where there's not a lot going on. It leads to some really bad habits. I would say that 80% of the journalists I have worked with have been great people who are super smart and talented and fun and quirky. But there's a really annoying 20% that take themselves way too seriously. Consequently, a bunch of this 20% I either went to college with or met along the way have climbed the ranks to certain degrees. You really need to have some sort of out-sized ego to make it in the sports media (and media in general). There's nothing wrong with competition but it attracts some truly insufferable people. I wrote for Madison Square Garden for a while. I decided to get out of sports when I had to cover NY Giants training camp. I was trapped in the U of Albany computer lab with football beat writers. All the job really consisted of was hanging out waiting for Eli Manning to talk about how practice was going. Some of these guys had such attitudes and gave me total brush-offs. Hanging out with journalists is way more fun than hanging out with comedians. That is for certain. A lot of comics are absolute messes. A lot will just want to talk about how awful their sets went. A lot won't even talk because they're in some depressive episode. The percentage of comics who can talk about anything -- like, say, sports -- other than comedy is really small. This seems to be 100% in line with my experience. The insufferable people in journalism seem to be the vast minority, but they are also the people you have to deal with the most. The people who are happy being out reporting day in and day out are generally great people to be around. The reason I wanted to be a journalist to begin with is that I had a adjunct professor who really encouraged me and my writing. She was full of great stories, and was just enough of a jerk to be funny and not off putting. We had to write 3 pieces all semester, and the only other homework we had was to read an assigned article and write a reaction to it. She didn't care how long the reaction was, just write enough so she knows that you read it. She picked great articles for us to read. We were assigned two articles a week, and by the end of the semester I was writing well over a page for each of them. There was one girl who had never turned in a reaction, and clearly hadn't read them during any of the discussions. So the professor called on her, and she didn't have anything to say about the article. The professor then started counting down on her fingers about how little she asks for from her students. She started with three fingers for the stories we had to report, two for the reactions we had to write, and then finally she was down to one finger. She then proceeded to tell the girl, with her middle finger extended, that even if she didn't read the stories or write a reaction, she could have the respect to listen to the discussion in class well enough to make something up. She did it in a way that was light enough to say, "I'm joking," but serious enough to say, "come on, do better." I'm pretty sure that was the last time she came to class and didn't have anything to say. She was the best teacher I've ever had at any level. Everything she did in that class was done to make her students better writers. She questioned every detail, challenged us to get more out of every interview, and gave us credit when we did good work. She was a working feature writer for People Magazine. She made it very clear that she could be anywhere in the world, but she chose to teach us, and I appreciate her for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Simmons is not a martyr here. ESPN put a lot of $$$ into Grantland, and was not seeing the desired results. Now in a cost cutting environment that alone might have been enough to justify the move. Then add in Simmons lack of respect for authority and it becomes even more delicate. Through in the Dr V. thing and it makes his decision making process an issue. He might be a good boss, but he was a pretty shitty middle manager in a large corporation. IF Grantland was making good coin, he probably could have got away with his bullshit. And if he was a kiss ass he probably could have kept the site alive, but not the combination of it. This doesn't mean ESPN was in the right either, but the situation was more complex than just the Goodell stuff. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Then why did they wait to close it? Also unless I'm wrong how can it be a cost cutting move if they didn't fire every one but just close shop but will keep paying everyone who stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Only contacted employees are being kept. So they save the freelance budget, and bandwidth. And will probably drop some off the people as their contacts run out. So there are at least some savings. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Then why did they wait to close it? Also unless I'm wrong how can it be a cost cutting move if they didn't fire every one but just close shop but will keep paying everyone who stayed. Well I'm including dropping Simmons as part of the cost cutting. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Then why did they wait to close it? Also unless I'm wrong how can it be a cost cutting move if they didn't fire every one but just close shop but will keep paying everyone who stayed. Because it takes a lot of money to produce things like podcasts and videos and all the other things the site had. It doesn't take really anything but labor costs to publish a written article. Some of the Grantland alum are sending out Tweets like: "I can't believe they let us run D-League week" or "I edited a 63 lines in the old Dallas that make you think of of Jerry Jones." I mean, yeah, great. They put out some of the best content the Internet has ever produced. But a lot -- and maybe the overwhelming amount -- was crap you'd see spitballed in a college newspaper or alt-weekly newsroom. Or a lot saw a lot of people spend a lot of time and devote a lot of resources to a breakdown of Bachelor contestants. ESPN's a business. And they're the ones putting money into the site. It wasn't making money. They didn't think the prestige it added was adding any value. I think they could have devoted the large amount of talent they had into more worthwhile endeavors than a lot of their work. It wasn't as prestigious a brand as I think Simmons et al. thought it was. garb I'd rather ESPN dump the garbage people they have on their network who just waste oxygen. I mean, Chris Broussard has been caught in a bunch of lies and is a terrible reporter (confirming the LBJ To Cleveland story by reading his article on a phone) yet still has a deal. Stephen A. Smith makes himself the story and is awful. Skip Bayless is a total joke. Cut those three guys right there and you have another year of Grantland probably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Plus, the Mouse ordered a tightening of Bristol's budget, partially due to cord cutting and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 ESPN put money into hiring but they did not put money into marketing nor did they bother to find revenue in ads on podcasts, etc. Grantland failed to make money in part because of ESPN doing very little to promote the site. You could barely even find it on the main page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMax46 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 This is my last post here, thank you and goodbye. You say that as if people here give a shit who anybody else is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Some do, some don't, depends on the people and tenure. I'm sure he loved you dearly. Let's hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Then why did they wait to close it? Also unless I'm wrong how can it be a cost cutting move if they didn't fire every one but just close shop but will keep paying everyone who stayed. The Dietsch podcast suggested it was pretty much an ego move to keep it going for as long as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 d/p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Plug: Winter Palace Pod Ep 14: Please Don't Be Very Long. Jonah from Toronto Sports Media talks Jays, AA, TSN vs Sportsnet, PTS. And @therealfredo talks lucha. https://t.co/Z5sCPBUQWN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Plug: Winter Palace Pod Ep 14: Please Don't Be Very Long. Jonah from Toronto Sports Media talks Jays, AA, TSN vs Sportsnet, PTS. And @therealfredo talks lucha. https://t.co/Z5sCPBUQWN Really enjoyed the podcast...good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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