The 2014 NBA Finals

[goodhelmet]

All that Lebron stuff should migrate to the off season thread. This is about he Mother Fucking Spurs!!!!! I knowwe have been talking about the offensive prowess of the Spurs but the defense was SICK!!!

[DougN]

That Splitter dunk was just absurd and was probably the point where I knew the Spurs were gonna win.

Yeah, they had been crushing the Heat by that point, but comebacks do happen and have happened.

[Jiji]

Last year having victory snatched hurt.  This was incredible.  Nearly wept when Timmy went into the crowd and bearhugged David. 

 

Awesome team, probably my favorite Spurs team yet. 

 

I hate LeBron, but he showed class from him congratulating all the Spurs at the end all the way to his press conference.  I don't think I'll ever like him, but he offered no excuses and admitted the Spurs were the better team. 

 

If only the media had the same class.  The Spurs win and they elect to show him walking to the locker room in closeup instead of the Spurs celebrating on the court. 

 

Kawhi is the man. He even turned out better than what I had him doing on NBA 2K11. 

That sickened me. Fuck them and their celebrity driven narratives (all about James, win or lose!). I cannot believe athletes don't fuck up camera men more often than they do. He looked crush and you can just picture the beer-gutted mafucker frantically backpedaling (but not quite fast enough) in front of him with his camera focused on LBJ's devastation. I am not a violent person but I was feeling some serious empathy for LeBron and was hoping he'd go HAM on that cameraman.

 

Has there ever been a better passing team than these Spurs? Did the Showtime Lakers have as great of team passing or was it mostly just Magic and Kareem? It's been a while since I've watched DVDs of their games. And those Lakers didn't face the kind of team defence the Spurs are playing, either.

[Zero]

Happy Father's Day

[piranesi]

Maybe Kobe can mentor him until he's ready to be a leader. {is what will seriously be asked on ESPN this week}

[mco543]

Ok this is going to sound crazy to some people but I... actually kinda... feel sorry for LeBron. I mean, what more can the guy do to drag this team over the line time and time again? Shoot 70 and hit triple doubles in 4 straight games?

 

The media will go after him (and hard) but when this era gets looked back on I think, regardless of rings, we will all be alot kinder to LBJ and the super human effort he gave every year.

 

Whenever I see the media hound Lebron in the manner they do I always think back to what Orson Welles told a biographer - "how they'll miss me when I'm gone".

 

When Lebron retires the major sports media are predominantly going to feel like assholes because they never appreciated Lebron in the way he should've been appreciated. Lebron is the least appreciated player by the media since Wilt. They've spent the last decade and then some, by and large, sniping at him, tearing him down, and criticizing every move he's made and it's been like this since he was in high school. It's psychotic.

[Charlie M.]

The vast majority of media I see goes out of their way to talk about how awesome he is.  The boo hoo everyone hates Lebron thing seems like a bit of a strawman at this point.

[Greggulator]

1) San Antonio is a historically great team. They may have been the most fun team in NBA history to win the title. It was just a non-stop barrage of plays where everyone touched the ball and looked for a better shot on offense. Their defense was just as awesome. They played a team against the best player in the world, two awesome running mates (injured or not) and the best shooter of all-time. They chumped them out consistently.

 

2) I am taking so much joy in seeing the Heat lose. So, so, so much joy.

Those three dudes thought they had the NBA on lock down for the next decade. They celebrated with the "Not one, not two, not three, not four..." nonsense. They got two, which is an incredible feat. But they came one missed rebound away from losing that series in six. They were a lot more talented than that Dallas team, too. The difference between the Heat and the Spurs is the attention to detail.

That's the reason why I hate this Heat team. There are a bunch of breakdowns online from the past few games where they show video of LeBron not getting his hand up when guarding Kawhi with the ball, who would just shoot over him. Ray Allen missed a bunch of switches. Bosh just looked clueless at times on defense. And Wade is really awful on transition defense -- he gives absolutely zero effort in getting back when he misses a shot, and LBJ's not the most consistent in that department, either.

 

I'll give some nod to age and wear/tear in them to going two-for-four in the finals. But they also had the mentality of when all the jocks would play on one team against the nerds on the playground, or the biggest AAU team of all-time.

[mco543]

The Heat team that lost to Dallas was in no way more talented than that Dallas team.

 

Look at that 2011 Heat team again. It was Lebron, Bosh, and Wade and....that is essentially the extent of what they offered the other starters were Bibby and Z/Anthony. They had no bench and it was amazing they made the Finals that year, I expected them to make the ECF and then get to the Finals the next year. It's weird to say but I feel they overachieved that year. The bench was Rio, Haslem, Mike Miller (who was atrocious), James Jones, Eddie House, Jamaal Magloire, Dampier, and Juwan Howard. That is horrible, it was necessary to assemble the team like that and it worked out in the end but that is horrible.

[APO]

I was over at a friend's house watching GoT so I missed the first half, but holy SHIT was the second half an absolute execution of the Heat by the Spurs. Just a masterful display of basketball by San Antonio and a hell of a effort by LeBron to try and carry an entire team on his back again only to fall short.

 

Congrats to Kawhi Leonard for getting Finals MVP. I still remember the 2011 Draft and wanting Kawhi in Minnesota and banging my head against a wall when the Wolves drafted Derrick Williams. I knew he'd turn out good and while I'm glad I'm right, I'm bitter that dipshit Kahn passed on him. Well deserved honor for a great player and a great kid.

[supremebve]

I do dislike LeBron as a player, but I do feel bad for him in that no one on his team seems to give a shit really. I know fans always talk about basketball coming down to who has the best player on the court (which is true more often than not), but it's like the Heat team swears by that mantra and makes no effort to fix games that they're clearly not working in.....because they have LeBron.

 

Seriously, when the most consistent players on the Heat in 2014 is Allen and Lewis, you've got a problem.

I don't know how you can dislike LeBron as a player, he really is everything you could want from a single basketball player.  With that said, you are just about right on with everything else.  For the entire season they seemed to be doing everything possible to make sure Wade was healthy, Bosh was a 3-point shooter, and hoping against hope to get guys like Oden and Beasley to come through in the playoffs.  The only reason they could do all these things was because LeBron could carry them to victory dispite the team throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.  The problem is that other than Bosh being a decent 3-point shooter, none of that other shit ever came into play.  Wade can take 50 games off and it won't matter, his legs are done and once your legs go they're gone.  So Bosh is a 3-point shooter now, does that really help them as a team?  They were a poor rebounding team when he was playing close to the basket, now that their starting center is shooting threes they basically are depending on LeBron picking up the slack and getting those rebounds.  They signed Oden and Beasley and thought that they could possibly help them in the playoffs...let's think about that sentence for a minute...They signed Greg Oden and Michael Beasley with the hope that they would play quality minutes for a championship team.  Have either of them ever had a significant moment in the NBA?  LeBron James is the best player in the world and one of the best of all-time, but that is a hell of a burden to carry against the Spurs.

 

This Spurs team is about as good of a team as I've ever seen.  The '96 Bulls, the '90 Pistons, and the '95 Rockets are the best teams I remember, but this team is right up there.  They don't really have any weaknesses, and play a brand of basketball that is incredibly fun to watch.  LeBron is an all-time great player who is still somehow underrated, but Tim Duncan is an all-time great, who somehow doesn't really rate at all.  If you look at his per 36 minute totals for his entire career he is basically the same player he was in 1999 right now, which is incredible.  He doesn't score as much as he used to, but he also plays on a team that doesn't require him to score as much as he did in the past.  He is still great in the post offensively and it is still Pop's ace in the hole when shit goes south.  He is still a great defensive player, who sometimes just shuts people down in the post.  He is the best player of his generation, I'd take him over Kobe and Shaq.  People tend to mistake spectactular players with good players.  Duncan was all jab steps and bank shots, which doesn't make Sportscenter, but it damn sure wins games.  Duncan also did it with a group of really good role players, but no one on the level of Kobe(or Shaq, whoever you think was the second banana), Wade, Pippen, or any of the other great #2 superstars.  Parker is great, and a hall of famer, but does anyone think he'd lead a team to the playoffs without Duncan?  Manu is also a hall of famer(for nothing else his international career), but he has been super inconsistent.  The closest thing he had to a real partner in crime was an old ass David Robinson, who never was great, but he wasn't winning anything without Duncan.  I don't know where he ranks all time, but I'd be hard pressed to name 10 better players than Tim Duncan.  He had to compete with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, the Dirk Mavericks, the Nash Suns, and the LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat and has overcome them all.  That is a murderers row of competition yet, somehow we spend all day talking about everyone else.  

[DougN]

It's even more than that. With the Pacers and the Nets and the Bobcats, it seemed like the Heat had found a great formula. It wasn't perfect, but it worked....and they completely abandoned it once the Finals started. They didn't even go into this Finals the same way they did last year. Moreso, I still say the changes the made were detrimental to the team. There was more of a focus to lessen LeBron's offensive burden, but they slacked on defense because of it and also outside of Bosh, I don't think anyone really became better offensively this year versus last.

 

The best part of LeBron's press conference was that you could just see in his body language, answers, and tone that he had found himself in a very similar ship that he was in Cleveland in 2010....and he was not happy about it.

[JRGoldman]

It's funny, but there is probably an entire generation of basketball fans who will remember Duncan from these two teams and whatever he does in the next couple years. It really isn't fair, because he deserves to be remembered not only as an important cog on these great teams that brought basketball in to the future, but also as a guy that would give you 38 and 14 in a finals game while being the best defender on the floor hands down. It's unbelievable.

Conversely, I hope that the same people who didn't see early Duncan will only remember Dwyane Wade as the dude who managed to get dunked on by Boris Diaw and rejected by Tiago Splitter in the same series.

[Zimbra]

Last night's post-game celebration was an all-timer.  You had:

 

-Duncan and Robinson bear hugging

-Duncan and his kids.  Especially his daughter's "I think he did awesome and tried his best."

-Pop sitting on the bench in disbelief while the confetti rained down

-All the different nations' flags on the podium

-All the Spurs flipping out when Kawhi was named MVP.

 

And probably more I'm forgetting.

[Brian Fowler]

Duncan won a title as a young lion, 3 as an all-time great in his prime, and now one as an old man. What a fucking career regardless if he keeps playing or not.

[Cole Miner]

 

 and hoping against hope to get guys like Oden and Beasley to come through in the playoffs.  

Yeah that is just asking for trouble. I would have said it was one of the worst things I had seen in years. I can't though since some other team tried the same thing with Evan Turner and Andrew Bynum. Writing was on the wall for the Heat after game 1 with Lewis playing 31 minutes. 

[supremebve]

 

 

 and hoping against hope to get guys like Oden and Beasley to come through in the playoffs.  

Yeah that is just asking for trouble. I would have said it was one of the worst things I had seen in years. I can't though since some other team tried the same thing with Evan Turner and Andrew Bynum. Writing was on the wall for the Heat after game 1 with Lewis playing 31 minutes. 

 

I don't know, Turner and Bynum have been quality NBA starters, Beasley and Oden have never shown anything to say that they should be starting on an NBA team.  Oden is made of glass and Beasley is made of insanity, a complete lack of self-awareness, and the chronic.  Turner and Bynum are just jerks, who think they're better than they really are.

[Cole Miner]

I don't know, Turner and Bynum have been quality NBA starters, Beasley and Oden have never shown anything to say that they should be starting on an NBA team.  Oden is made of glass and Beasley is made of insanity, a complete lack of self-awareness, and the chronic.  Turner and Bynum are just jerks, who think they're better than they really are.

 

 

Turner is the worst defensive player I have ever seen. At least of guys without an excuse for being as bad as they are, like being 40 years old for example. Beasley and Turner are remarkably similar on the offensive side of the ball. Bynum looks completely finished like Oden. He did manage to get in some games though with Cleveland. Perhaps they saw something to salvage. 

[Greggulator]

Harden's worse than Turner on defense. Harden is absolutely awful on that end of the court. Not that Turner's any good -- he's woeful -- but Harden is just amazingly putrid.

[Skelemania]

Even before this championship, I would have argued Tim Duncan was the best power forward of all-time. Barkley, Malone, McHale, Rodman, Hayes...I have no trouble putting Duncan over them. I think this just championship cements it. I have gotten to watch his entire professional career too & even watched him at Wake Forest. Pretty crazy. I'm getting old.

[DougN]

I dunno. I'm only 28 and I feel like I've watched his entire NBA career and his last two seasons in college. It's only 16 years.

 

Simmons said one of the best things last night. Duncan definitely is not the greatest player, but he has a case for the greatest career ever along with Kareem. I'd take Duncan over Kareem too.

[_MJ_]

I think a lot the Heat players were just shot or on the edge of being done as a NBA player.  Once you get passed Norris Cole, Michael Beasley (who basically didn't play), and Greg Oden(who didn't play), the Heat are pretty old in NBA years.  Allen, Battier, Haslem, Birdman are all players they heavily relied on for production and most of them are thinking about retirement after this season.  I'm sure Wade would like to play better, but his body is constantly failing him now.  I don't think it was a lack of trying from Lebron's teammates.  They ran into the Spurs team who manages their team better than anyone else in the league (especially with regular season minutes) and despite all the "Old Spurs" jokes have a nice mix of youth (Lenard, Green, Patty Mills) on their team.   A buzzsaw.

[AlfredoE]

I dunno. I'm only 28 and I feel like I've watched his entire NBA career and his last two seasons in college. It's only 16 years.

 

Simmons said one of the best things last night. Duncan definitely is not the greatest player, but he has a case for the greatest career ever along with Kareem. I'd take Duncan over Kareem too.

 

Of course you would, you're a Celtic fan.

[Tabe]

  I don't think it was a lack of trying from Lebron's teammates.  

Not that the outcome would have been much different I don't think, but there were definitely stretches - sometimes long ones - where the effort from Miami was lacking.  

[Brian Fowler]

Duncan's all-time place is interesting. Definitely one of the best interior defenders to ever live. His peak wasn't as good as a lot of guys, but it started so young, and lasted until he was old. And talk about being useful after his prime.