supremebve Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 People downgrade The Admiral because Hakeem made him his bitch...purely because he could, but that's like saying Malone isn't great because Jordan made him his bitch. And when you're scratching your heads at these, I've legitimately heard both of these points this month along on some random ESPN radio show while at work in that Robinson wasn't great because Hakeem humbled him and the same for Malone-Jordan. I want to point out that Hakeem made Robinson his bitch exactly once in his career... 1995 playoffs as David was getting the MVP award. And fuck Dennis Rodman that year. Up until 1996-1997 (whenever Robinson got hurt), the top 4 centers were Hakeem, Shaq, David and Patrick Ewing. The only one who had a winning record head to head with all three of the others was David Robinson. In 1994, Hakeem won a championship with a bunch of nobodies who just happened to be clutch shooters (Cassell, Horry). He had Clyde in 1995. Robinson had Elliott. Freaking Shawn Elliott was the Spurs #2 for a decade. What the fuck did people expect? Kobe could have done it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Kobe could have been the Admiral's #2? Absolutely!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Kobe could have been the Admiral's #2? Absolutely!!! I've been called a Kobe hater for about 15 years now, and I just wanted to know what it feels like to claim Kobe could do the impossible. It kind of feels like I just took one of those hot wing challenges. Now that I've taken that first bite, I kind of hate myself for making this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Stock was an ass mostly in a time when everyone was kind of an ass. It just depends on how you look at history. I mean, Malone clipped Isiah with an elbow and gave him how many stitches? Just because Isiah said he was better than Stockton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 This talk of Malone elbows and David Robinson, holy shit that elbow he KO'd The Admiral with. Didn't get a foul either! It was 47 stitches, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'd rather see some elbows being thrown than what we have now. Everyone is way too friendly.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'd rather see some elbows being thrown than what we have now. Everyone is way too friendly.. That is really easy to say when you aren't getting hit by those elbows. You aren't one of those put a skirt on them types are you? Having a 270 pound man elbowing someone in the head is not something that needs to happen in a basketball game. Being friends with people is also something I don't frown upon, why do you have to dislike someone to play a game of basketball against them? And isn't this the board where I said that a man shouldn't hit another man in the nuts and everyone disagreed? Now the board is filled with tough guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The Duncan-Shaq comparison based on stats kind of irks me. If Duncan played under Mike D'Antoni or John Lucas then he would have had multiple 50 point games a season because of his efficiency and those guys would have taken Duncan to the well until he was dried up and out of the league out after 12 years. If he was a ballhog like Melo or Iverson, he may be the greatest scorer of this generation. Duncan has always played under Pop and the team first mentality. In a way, even though he is nowhere near as great as Bill Russell and Shaq could never be Wilt, they were that generation's version of Wilt-Russell from a mentality perspective. One lives under a "Me" tree and one lives under a "team" village. There was a moment in one of the All Star games when Shaq and Duncan won co-MVPs. After the game, Shaq wanted that trophy so bad, he took it from Duncan's arms. Duncan could give a shit and just laughed. That tells you all you need to know about stats/awards and what Duncan thinks about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Its not about being a tough Guy at all. I like that when someone drives through the lane they have to be concerned with a hard foul. I don't enjoy ticky-tacky calls. Also, I don't need to see guys smiling after they lose. If the game doesn't matter then why am I going to watch? Its like cena when he no-sells a loss. I get you have millions but at least act like you care about the outcome. You didn't see the bulls and pistons hugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Again, though, Shaq's career worst fg% is better than Timmy's best. That kinda kills any efficiency argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Its not about being a tough Guy at all. I like that when someone drives through the lane they have to be concerned with a hard foul. I don't enjoy ticky-tacky calls. Also, I don't need to see guys smiling after they lose. If the game doesn't matter then why am I going to watch? Its like cena when he no-sells a loss. I get you have millions but at least act like you care about the outcome. You didn't see the bulls and pistons hugging. My issue is that none of these things matter at all when it actually comes to the quality of the players, teams, and/or style of basketball. Sure you could put a bruiser on near the rim to knock down anyone who comes through the lane, but wouldn't you rather have Tim Duncan playing hall of fame level basketball? Sure these guys could get all pissed off and act like assholes when they lose, but that doesn't make them any better or worse as basketball players. You want people to be mad because you're mad, and I just want to watch people who are good at basketball. I don't care what these dudes are feeling, I care who is the best at basketball. We just watched a masterful series of basketball, but instead you would rather watch someone receive a concussion and cry about losing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I have often said that if someone stops enjoying sports as entertainment, it's more on the person than the athletes unless we're talking something incredibly bad. It's just a game, it's fun to watch someone do cool stuff and talk some good-natured trash. But that's all it is. You can't dial time back, and nostalgia can be a terrible thing. It can rob you of the chance to enjoy the present. Sorry, Niners. But you really come across as a 'refusing to be sastisifed just for the hell of it' kind of person when it comes to sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 What are you saying? I love the way the spurs play and I'm happy that they won the championship. I love the way the team was constructed. I wasn't at any point cheering for Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 What are you saying? I love the way the spurs play and I'm happy that they won the championship. I love the way the team was constructed. I wasn't at any point cheering for Miami. I'm saying that if you have a problem with how the game is played it has nothing to do with the actual playing of the game. Throwing elbows that cause people concussions and being pissed off about everything doesn't really have anything to do with playing basketball. It just feels like you are wishing for a time that is gone, but is clearly worse. If what made you love basketball in the 80s and 90s was the fact that they were allowed to give people concussions and act like bitches when they lose you probably are missing the forest for the trees. The 80s and the 90s were good because there were a lot of great players playing at their peak, not because occassionally they elbowed each other. It kind of reminds me of people who are super nostalgic of the 50s and just disregard all the injustice going on. It is just nostalgia about them being young not really nostalgia about an actual better time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think there's a middle ground here. I don't want to watch the Heat/Knicks style from the late '90s but when we're getting calls like the one on Diaw where he didn't even touch LeBron, there is some validity to Niners' argument that the current game has moved too far away from the physicality of yesteryears. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I agree with Swayze in that there's a way to have a physical game without having guys being OKAY with throwing elbows designed to fuck someone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If you want to watch the most talented players in the game be negated because the other team's strategy is to dare the refs to call a foul on every play, watch college basketball. Every change the NBA has made over the past few years has drastically improved the quality of the game. When they go to far, they enact rules that keep things within reason. I think after these playoffs we will almost assuredly see changes to shooting fouls on the three point line, much like a few years ago we saw a change about bringing your arms up through the defender. You can't say you love the way the Spurs play basketball and pine for the late 80s. I would really rather not see dudes get clotheslined, elbowed, jersey grabbed and hand checked so much that the only reliable way to score was posting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Again, though, Shaq's career worst fg% is better than Timmy's best. That kinda kills any efficiency argument. No it doesn't. I am not saying you can stop a 400 lb bulldozer. I am saying that Duncan did what he did within a team context. If Duncan wanted to score 30 a game, he would have. Duncan only shot 1500 attempts in a season once in his career. Shaq did it multiple times. Duncan never lead the league in scoring. He may have led it in blocks or rebounds, I don't know. However, I do know his team has been a winner every year since he came in the league regardless of his role on the team. He didn't go around chasing all stars like Shaq did on his way out. He stayed with one team, won every year he was on the team and is still collecting jewelry 15 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Mann Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think there's a middle ground here. I don't want to watch the Heat/Knicks style from the late '90s but when we're getting calls like the one on Diaw where he didn't even touch LeBron, there is some validity to Niners' argument that the current game has moved too far away from the physicality of yesteryears. The only reason I watched those Heat- Knicks games was emotional involvement, period. But I would NOT want to relive having to actually watch them. Ever. Those games were my basketball Red Badge of Courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think there's a middle ground here. I don't want to watch the Heat/Knicks style from the late '90s but when we're getting calls like the one on Diaw where he didn't even touch LeBron, there is some validity to Niners' argument that the current game has moved too far away from the physicality of yesteryears. The only reason I watched those Heat- Knicks games was emotional involvement, period. But I would NOT want to relive having to actually watch them. Ever. Those games were my basketball Red Badge of Courage. I got my hands on them last year and watched a few including game 7 from '97 and game 5 from '99. They weren't as bad as I thought they'd be but it's not a style I wish would return to prominence. There were some incredibly skilled players making skilled plays, like Tim Hardaway lighting it up in '97 dropping 38 points on the Knicks. I was legitimately interested in watching them because I don't remember shit about them as a kid and they had a bunch of my favourites (Zo, Ewing, Tim Hardaway, broken down Grandmama, broken down Majerle, Allan Houston giving no fucks defensively). It's interesting that basketball more so than other team sports is so focused on comparing and ranking all-time greats. I suppose it's the nature of a superstar dominated game but I think we've just been taught a lesson in the importance of depth and good teamwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPaH44ISY20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 What's really exciting about the Spurs winning is that we'll get a chance to really see their legacy and contribution to the game of basketball over the next several years. I think the Spurs defeating Lebron's Heat will change basketball philosophy from the dominant superstar ball that we got after Jordan, with guys(Kobe's, Iverson's, Carmelo's) trying to play one on one and be heroes every night, to fundamentally sound, technically efficient, team ball. Maybe now that they've managed to knock off the team with the best player in the world, more players and coaches start adopting that Pop-Philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't know. I think most people realize it's much more difficult establishing that team philosophy and having superstars buy in than taking the easy route. I hope you're right, but I'm skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Yeah, I mean the counter to what I said would be...Spurs being Spurs isn't exactly new, so how come everyone hasn't bought in already. But I think you do see some teams playing that way today. Just not as efficiently. Even Lebron buys into that style of play, with the way he starts games trying to get everyone involved, his problem is...you know...pick someone not named Ray Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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