AxB Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If I had posted a picture of JRR Tolkein, or Robert E Howard, or Walter Disney, or H P Lovecraft, or Isaac Asimov, or Gene Roddenberry, EVA might not have recognised them as people who invented their own universe(s) of characters that transcended their genre and redefined popular entertainment in America, and therefore the world. But he probably would recognise Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 That's what you get for dumbing down for the masses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If I had posted a picture of JRR Tolkein, or Robert E Howard, or Walter Disney, or H P Lovecraft, or Isaac Asimov, or Gene Roddenberry, EVA might not have recognised them as people who invented their own universe(s) of characters that transcended their genre and redefined popular entertainment in America, and therefore the world. But he probably would recognise Stan. This might be my living 15 miles away from Disneyland bias, but there are adults who don't know what Disney looked like? That being said, Ub Iwerks is basically Disney's Jack Kirby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I wouldn't recognize Disney. But no matter how many universe-creators you can name (and every single one of them had help from somebody in building their worlds) it doesn't diminish the individual accomplishments of any particular creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If I had posted a picture of JRR Tolkein, or Robert E Howard, or Walter Disney, or H P Lovecraft, or Isaac Asimov, or Gene Roddenberry, EVA might not have recognised them as people who invented their own universe(s) of characters that transcended their genre and redefined popular entertainment in America, and therefore the world. But he probably would recognise Stan.LOL could you shift the goalposts any more abruptly? That comment was - quite clearly - specifically directed at James Gunn, not some blanket statement that Lucas was the only person who had ever created an enduring and influential fictional universe. Which would be ridiculous.Just...wow, man. If you're going to continue, please take a minute to unrustle your jimmies so we can at least have a cogent debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't want to get into one of those arguments, but you said no-one could have made a movie like Star Wars that was good. Which I took you as saying that Battle Beyond the Stars and those cash-ins sucked, so I mentioned Gunn as the most recent guy to make a movie that was both like Star Wars, and good. Your response was to say he didn't originate it, which I took to be you moving the goalposts . So I starting trying to score at where I thought you'd put them. But if you want to think Lucas is better than I think he is, go on thinking it, I'm not bothered. Having said that, thinking Lucas is just a guy lead to 'You can write this shit, but you can't say it', and Ford improvising "I know" where the script said "I love you too". Thinking he was a genius who's work and words should leap from page to screen without any changes whatsoever lead to "From my perspective the Jedi are evil". Enough negativity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The bits with Peter Cushing and the scene outside of the Falcon made me laugh way too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't want to get into one of those arguments, but you said no-one could have made a movie like Star Wars that was good. Which I took you as saying that Battle Beyond the Stars and those cash-ins sucked, so I mentioned Gunn as the most recent guy to make a movie that was both like Star Wars, and good. Your response was to say he didn't originate it, which I took to be you moving the goalposts . So I starting trying to score at where I thought you'd put them. But if you want to think Lucas is better than I think he is, go on thinking it, I'm not bothered.Ah, I see the problem here. You just misinterpreted...whichever post it was that started this back and forth. Maybe I could've been clearer? I dunno. I felt I was being pretty clear. But "No one could make a movie like Star Wars that was good" was definitely NOT my point. That would be almost as ridiculous as the other thing you thought I meant.My point was more along the lines of the great Sorkin bit from THE SOCIAL NETWORK: "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook." You can say (accurately) that, oh, Lucas pulled this bit in from here and swiped this from that, and it's remarkably similar to this other thing, but the bottom line is that nobody had yet thought to pull all those influences together in precisely the same way that he did, and to have done it so effectively as to inspire passionate devotion across generations of moviegoers* and change the course of popular entertainment forever. Nor has any filmmaker since managed to "Frankentstein" those influences, or any others they might hold, into their own fictional universe that could match Lucas's for engendering an enduring affection and cultural import. (AVATAR probably came the closest for a hot minute, but with 3D ultimately proving out as a fad instead of a revolution, and without having inspired much a lasting fanbase or gained a cultural foothold, I'd say it currently resides with the other pretenders to the throne until the sequels prove otherwise.) There is only one STAR WARS. If anybody else could've made it, they would've . But they didn't, and they couldn't, even if you gave them a hundred tries, because that specific mixture of elements that caused STAR WARS to resonate above everything before and everything after was the result of the chemistry of George Lucas's weirdo brain. So give the man his due. A thing that a great many millions of people love would 100% certainly not exist without him. That was mostly it. *Sidenote: Surely that word can't be long for this world, can it? "You mean, like, going to the movies?" Just kidding. People will still sometimes go to the movies, the kids will just call it "Star Warsing." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I wouldn't recognize Disney. But no matter how many universe-creators you can name (and every single one of them had help from somebody in building their worlds) it doesn't diminish the individual accomplishments of any particular creator. Seriously why should there be any hesitation to shred Lucas for having bad ideas? Gene Roddenberry was a genius that spawned Star Trek. He was also the creative force behind the first season of TNG, which sucked a big fat dick. And that's okay. This is something I see in music a lot too. Someone will wait for a band to cut a genuinely bad album then go SEE THEY ALWAYS SUCKED, usually because they had something against that band in the first place (not inserting Metallica here). No. That's not how shit works. You can have a bad album and still be a good band that produced good material. Writing is the same thing. Film making. Hell, fucking painting for that matter. Lucas had a hell of a heyday. Coppola. Lots of great minds fall off the damn rails. Doesn't diminish that peak to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFozzie Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm posting this in the video game selection as well as here.. but can anyone pick out any of the early Star Wars games I've missed in this retrospective? https://www.an8bitmind.com/index.php/2016/01/06/a-star-wars-video-game-retrospective-part-one-the-early-years/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The thing more strange than people not liking Lucas is people defending him. The guy got paid 4 billion dollars, anyone feeling sorry for Lucas is confused on how capitalism works. If you spend... 200 million on something and are later paid 4 billion for it after making billions off of it already, you won. Why he felt the need to have a bitter interview I have no idea, the 'right' thing to do is to say "I am retired, best of luck to the new Star Wars!" and enjoy life. It is ok if he doesn't like the new Star Wars, or wishes they used his ideas, but no one (well most people) feels sorry for someone that just got a 4 billion dollar paycheck. So now the lasting impression of him will be bitter out of touch old man, since I don't think he has any new ideas to take over the world with since he hasn't had a good new idea in 30 years. It is ok to like someone's work from the past and still criticize the present, its not an all or nothing deal. No one said he was awful for his contributions to Star Wars, but there is plenty to be annoyed about since the mid-80s he has done, and there is nothing wrong with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I get both sides. It's bizarre at how many people want to do everything they can to discredit Lucas for this giant franchise they love so much. On the other hand, you can't feel too bad for a dude who just made $4B after making tons and tons of money off of it for the past 40 years. But you can also see how he'd be a bit hurt when people try to discredit him and all anyone can talk about is the movie without him is so much better than the last 3 movies he did in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I am on neither side since I have no horse in the race. I don't feel sorry for Lucas at all, but nothing beats having control over what you created. Sure, they gave him 4 billion dollars. However, Disney is going to make way more than 4 billion dollars off the franchise in the future (including the returns they're getting now). Yeah, they're aren't many people like George Miller who can direct something they created on the wrong side of the half century mark. If Miller did something abysmal to Mad Max like the SW prequels, I wouldn't be all that mad if he decided NOT to sell it off to Warner Bros (after buying the rights in 1997 IIRC to do it at Fox) just because he's out of touch. At the end of the day, that was his creation (allegedly stolen, scotched taped together, or otherwise). Hell, I would be happy if someone told a studio, "Suck a dick and make a bunch of derivatives like you've been doing." What happened to Lucas has happened to a bunch of other people whether they know it or not. We'll give you a fraction of what we intend to make, and we'll hope to you will stay happy and shut the fuck up. Yeah, it's really awesome people get to see something he possibly wouldn't have imagined and put on film. However, I can't be too mad that he figured out Disney is just another corporate juggernaut out for themselves. Sometimes, people don't have a crazy obsession with fiat currency that us regular Joes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm sure every parent will forever feel weird about the step version of themselves their spouse is married to raising their kids. Even if they get along well. Giving a dude with a ton of money even more money is probably not going to do much to make him feel less weird about people doing what they want with his creation without taking any of his input ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Not to point out the obvious but he didn't have to sell it. He had plenty of money, he could have taken it to the grave with him or did what the Tolkien family did and be really picky about who he licensed it to if he still wanted control. I mean I may feel bad for him if he was dead broke and felt like he had to sell it to feed his family but that wasn't the case. I can see it feeling a bit weird to him, my point was more instead of doing a bitter sounding interview he could have stayed out of the spotlight and kept it to himself, he didn't do himself any good and I would hope he didn't need the money for the interview. He literally accomplished nothing positive by saying what he said. And if he gets ridiculed online for it, then that's what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The deal was party/mostly? in shares which he kept in Disney, it's not really a 4 billion deal anymore. It's over 6 billion. And he still gets some royalties as the creator of the characters. He is a very wealthy man. Bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I get both sides. It's bizarre at how many people want to do everything they can to discredit Lucas for this giant franchise they love so much. On the other hand, you can't feel too bad for a dude who just made $4B after making tons and tons of money off of it for the past 40 years. But you can also see how he'd be a bit hurt when people try to discredit him and all anyone can talk about is the movie without him is so much better than the last 3 movies he did in the series. I think the problem with most detractors is that they refuse to give Lucas credit for anything. I think the technical aspects are far better off in someone else's hands because Lucas cannot write dialogue to save his life and his non-sequitur hey that's cool approach to storytelling leaves holes in the plot that you could drive a truck through and character development is nearly non-existant. It is infuriating. That being said, Lucas is more than just Star Wars. THX changed the way we listen to movies, ILM changed the way we look at movies, and the entire Star Wars mythology is his brain child. Lucas completely revolutionized how we experience motion pictures as well as fostering cultural reverence for them. Lucas is arguably the single most important cinematic influence of the past few decades.. The guy has amazing vision, but his sin is pride. He insists on doing everything himself and he can't. Someone else needs to direct and sure as shit someone else should be writing the scripts. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Boyega is going to stalk and murder Harrison Ford in a crime of passion one day, isn't he? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 "I hardly know you." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I kinda feel like that's probably Harrison Ford's go-to line these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I always took it as Boyega just relentlessly trolling Harrison Ford and doing a good job of it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I always took it as Boyega just relentlessly trolling Harrison Ford and doing a good job of it. I prefer the murderous sci-fi fanboy homoerotic love idea, myself. It's more dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ok. Anyway, I was just reminded today that Colin Trevorrow, or however you spell his name, is directing Episode IX. Now, I recall when this was announced, but at the time, I couldn't care less about Jurassic World or that he directed it. Then I watched Jurassic World a couple weeks ago. And now I read an article with comments from Trevorrow about Episode IX. Surely there's more than enough time to make a change. Just have JJ direct it or have Rian Johnson do episodes VIII and IX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ray runs from Kylo in record speed wearing absurd high heels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ok. Anyway, I was just reminded today that Colin Trevorrow, or however you spell his name, is directing Episode IX. Now, I recall when this was announced, but at the time, I couldn't care less about Jurassic World or that he directed it. Then I watched Jurassic World a couple weeks ago. And now I read an article with comments from Trevorrow about Episode IX. Surely there's more than enough time to make a change. Just have JJ direct it or have Rian Johnson do episodes VIII and IX. It suddenly hit me how different this experience is going to be. Like, when I was a kid and saw Ep. IV, I didn't even really register that it was "episode IV" or that there would be an Ep. V. I just wanted to run home and re-enact Luke Kissing Leia and wear my jacket with just the hood and not using the sleeves so I could look like Obiwan. The movie was over. Yeah, we all speculated mainly about what happened to Darth Vader, like how long would he be floating around and how much is going to kick someone's ass when he stops spinning. But we weren't, like, talking about a sequel. We played with our action figures and then suddenly one day a commercial came on t.v. for Empire and it was like, "Honey, call your mom and tell her we can't make the barbeque next Sunday. Star Wars is here!" Now I'm already reading things about Episode IX. I mean, just imagine if we had trained Jawas at Tora Bora? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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