Octopus Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Hierarchy or something to differentiate them would be nice. I think 3 midcard male single titles is doable with strong enough booking or some form of theme. I personally like the idea of a Pure, TV, Hardcore, or Cruiserweight title when the type of content we get is different from the rest of the show. I also liked an IC and European belt both existing with the idea that IC>European. In theory, the only gimmicked title is the Continental Crown which sounds like the holder gets a free entry into the new annual Continental Classic. And that’s a somewhat weird gimmick. I think the formula we see is that the way the belts are booked are similar but switched which title is in that rotation. You have the open challenge champion, the workhorse bangers maker champion, the evil heel that stays away from defenses, the revolving door hot potatoes participants, and the absent champion. Most of the midcard title runs have been one of these. Even if you don’t want to overly gimmick them but still need some form of branding, and were interested in OCTOIMMEDIATETHOUGHTS: TNT - Face of the Network, you get all the perks and tweets of the celebs. International - Weekly defenses. Continental Crown - Hard hitting Japanese Strong Style Tokyo Dome King’s Road Suplexes and Lariats FTW - Taz adjacent. That isn’t hierarchical and that’s fine, but gives them somewhat flavor. The importance of the belt can be who is holding the title, but to pull that off requires good booking and a strong performance. The All-Atlantic title was kind of a joke because of its roll out and design, but turning it to the International and OC’s great run made it important. TNT title feels special to me because Christian and now Copeland hold it, when Wardlow had it and was a boner against the Law Offices of Sterling & Hobbs it made the title dumb. Same with the Guevara vs Scorpio trash. Roderick Strong looked like a killer beating OC for the International but hasn’t really done anything this month with it. Christian was a hiding heel but managed to make his belt feel special. I loved Kingston’s run and made me care about a belt I initially thought was really stupid. I’m now excited Okada has it. So what am I saying? IDK. Do stuff better? Whatever that means. WOAH WOAH WOAH did somebody say retroactive thinking time machine booking?! Ok. I loved Kingston’s run with the belt and Okada is neat, but I wouldn’t have made the Continental Crown a belt. It was short term Triple Crown satisfaction that wasn’t needed and silly when you actually thought about it. Fucking trophies are so fucking sweet. Imagine a giant trophy with an exhausted Kingston being proud next to it. And the back stage pictures of him sitting next to it with a beer and his other company belts. And shaking cool people’s hands. You could have even still had him booked the same but for his ROH belt to get people excited for that PPV. MORE BOOKING FUN?!?!?! Roderick Strong weekly defenses but his faction pals interfere and he super multi back breaks everyone to the point of overkill before the pin. It’d get that group over while they wait for everyone to heal. Have Roddy super celebrate like he won the Olympics every time. OR have him or Wardlow or whoever only face local talent and just murder them as they shit talk the town. HOLY SMOKES IM ON FIRE How will you book the Swerve vs Samoa Joe?!?!?!???!!!?!!?????!? Good match. Bang boom bam. Joe has Swerve in a chokehold. Swerve seems dead but his hands start wiggling before he almost dies. He’s gonna get out of it. Hangman comes out of nowhere and throws in the towel. The ref calls it. Super heel Hangman costs Swerve the match. Hangman kicks him a few times. The almighty Tony Khan has Schiavone announce a match restart. Page has a fit and joins commentary. Joe wins by choke still and I celebrate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 50 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: Preaching to the choir. I had a shockingly similar post in either the February or March thread where I said the show would improve with a clear hierarchy for the titles. Or at least giving them distinct identities. I got a lot of push back to that. Was that during the party where you got mad because we weren’t playing Bon Jovi and you threw the potato salad on the floor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: Preaching to the choir. I had a shockingly similar post in either the February or March thread where I said the show would improve with a clear hierarchy for the titles. To poorly rip off a well worn quote, if you have multiple #2 titles you have zero #2 titles. Tony has been so concerned with establishing the various belts credibility that he never worked out their identities and that's also rather important. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Octopus said: In theory, the only gimmicked title is the Continental Crown which sounds like the holder gets a free entry into the new annual Continental Classic. And that’s a somewhat weird gimmick. My understanding is that the Continental Championship will be put on the line in each year's Continental Classic, yes. Note that the Continental "Crown" has already been split up. Okada won the Continental Championship, leaving Eddie with just the RoH title and the Strong Openweight championship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krone Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 The gripe I have had with the titles is that none of them really seem like a step in any direction. For instance, if you were to win the IC Title - to me that means that you are just below the World Title. You're getting ready to get that push and you might be able to compete for championships. That worked because the champions (in my era) would be the Chris Jericho, Shelton Benjamin, Rob Van Dam, Kane, etc. All people that would eventually get bumped up to that world title slot. In AEW though, two out of your three secondary champions are bonafide main eventers in Okada and Edge. I feel like the International title with Roderick Strong should be that IC "we need to get to the next level" title belt, but that means people like OC should move up after winning it. There's no separation of challengers. I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, but I went through with a buddy the other day and listed off all the people who could win a world title in AEW and it be normal. Adam Cole, Adam Copeland, Adam Page, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, Christian Cage, Darby Allin, Eddie Kingston, Jay White, Jon Moxley, Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, MJF, Ricky Starks, Samoa Joe, Swerve Strickland, and Will Ospreay. That ladies and gentlemen is EIGHTEEN names, not even counting fringe people you may want to include (Malakai Black, Jeff Hardy, etc.) I feel like having all of those guys may actually overload your roster. I do think it's possible to have too much of a good thing. This isn't me trying to knock on AEW, christ I've been to a TV show and a PPV - I love them. But as far as titles goes, I feel there are certainly too many with no structure to their order. There's no main event title, this is an upper midcard title, this is a midcard title, this is a gimmick title. Stuff of that nature, and it kind of becomes easy to see how some people can just blend in to the product. Like Ricky Starks could've and should've been on a fast track to a main event, but adding even someone like Edge takes away just one more spot on the PPV. I love Edge too, don't get it twisted, but these guys now have to wait even longer for their potential moment. But boy does it feel good when someone does break through like a Swerve. A non established guy who becomes established. I almost dare say by the tiniest of margins that Swerve has surpassed Darby in the hierarchy of AEW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 8 minutes ago, Krone said: . That ladies and gentlemen is EIGHTEEN names, An Octodecuple Pillars shirt would be pretty sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sex Machine Gun Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) I think we need a Buckle Belt. It's reserved exclusively for people who love elaborate belt buckles and wish to test their mettle in the squared circle against people who also love belt buckles. Wait, hol' up, a singles Buckle Belt isn't enough, we need tag team Buckle Belts. Ah fuck, forgot about trios Buckle Belts. All right, wait, hear me out, let's standardize tights with belt loops. See, any time this kind of thing comes up people say "it used to be a big deal" or "you could tell a hierarchy was in place" or whatever. Yeah, because there were like, four tops (not the Motown group) in a promotion then. AEW has EIGHT in total and regularly showcases talent from other promotions who have belts too. I get the idea of promoting "look at this top dog from another place wrestling here, we must be a big deal" especially when you own another company yourself but Christ on a cracker. EDIT: Belt Creep is a problem in pretty much every company anymore but dammit, differentiate yourself a little. EDIT 2: I forgot the FTW belt! Fuck! I even like Hook and forgot about it. Edited April 3 by Sex Machine Gun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sex Machine Gun Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 To be positive though, because this board is big time AEW country and someone asked: Ospreay's rise is most compelling to me right now. Not the video game matches but his emergence as a personality. No problem with a big crazy match against Danielson because it's on PPV and should be a big deal. Almost like everyone keeps saying "the business" for a reason. I love Joe as champ. Despite Swerve's unbelievable talent in just about every way, I really like Joe being the Juggernaut of AEW. How do you book a guy like that in any other way? Wait, don't answer that if you're from PG WWE ten years ago, he'd be doing dance numbers. The Bucks are a team I fucking hate but right now they *want* me to hate them and I'm okay with that. Their recent turn/gimmick has been enjoyable even if I still find their matches insufferable. Never been a New Japan watcher but Okada's treatment has been pretty good so far. Like, I knew he was a big deal before and it's been appropriately done. More Ferraris please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 7 hours ago, Octopus said: Was that during the party where you got mad because we weren’t playing Bon Jovi and you threw the potato salad on the floor? To be fair, Bon Jovi rules and potato salad sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcellenceofAirPollution Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I've always been a fan of the simple pay windah style of booking: Win matches make more money, get more exposure, get nice stuff, get more girls Belts are nice because you make more money when you have them. Jay White is the only one who seems to get this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 10 hours ago, Sex Machine Gun said: EDIT 2: I forgot the FTW belt! Fuck! I even like Hook and forgot about it. It's okay. That's just the Being Hook Title. It's merely a part of his wardrobe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 5 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said: To be fair, Bon Jovi rules and potato salad sucks. I am in the exact opposite camp. Also, that "#2 title holder, like US or IC, is automatically the #1 contender to the world title" thing...has any company ever actually stated this or is that just some Apter mag bullshit based on the secondary guy always being ranked #1 in their ratings for every company? Because it makes no sense. The #2 title is not the "top contenders trophy." If it was, wouldn't the #2 title holder get unlimited shots? Or wouldn't it make sense if he had to give up his belt if he lost to the world champ? I always took it as "the #2 champion is the automatic #1 contender if there is no other logical #1." That or you have actual world title contender ratings (which never really works) and the #2 champ gets an automatic spot somewhere in the top 5 and can move even higher with successful defenses. Or, one more option, just come out and acknowledge your #2 as a midcard belt and have guys who think they're good, but not yet world title level, shoot for it. Aside from those three options, secondary belts make no sense in kayfabe. And if you want more than two singles belts, the rest have to be gimmick titles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 10 minutes ago, Technico Support said: I am in the exact opposite camp. Also, that "#2 title holder, like US or IC, is automatically the #1 contender to the world title" thing...has any company ever actually stated this or is that just some Apter mag bullshit based on the secondary guy always being ranked #1 in their ratings for every company? Because it makes no sense. The #2 title is not the "top contenders trophy." If it was, wouldn't the #2 title holder get unlimited shots? Or wouldn't it make sense if he had to give up his belt if he lost to the world champ? I always took it as "the #2 champion is the automatic #1 contender if there is no other logical #1." That or you have actual world title contender ratings (which never really works) and the #2 champ gets an automatic spot somewhere in the top 5 and can move even higher with successful defenses. Or, one more option, just come out and acknowledge your #2 as a midcard belt and have guys who think they're good, but not yet world title level, shoot for it. Aside from those three options, secondary belts make no sense in kayfabe. And if you want more than two singles belts, the rest have to be gimmick titles. Early WCW (post Crocket buyout until the Bischoff era) actually did this, complete with a "This weeks Top 10" segment, where the US champ was always #1 Contender (the TV Champ usually floated in the 6-8 range). They always handwaved the US champ never chasing the World champ because they were too busy with defending their own belt, until Starrcade 92 where Rude finally was taking the jump after holding the US belt for over a year to take a shot at Simmons, then blew his back out. Then there was the time in WWF where IC Champ Warrior took the shot at Hogan and won, then vacated the IC belt the next week. Holding a mid-card *and* the World Title at the same time is a relatively recent thing (as in the last 25ish years). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 14 minutes ago, Raziel said: Early WCW (post Crocket buyout until the Bischoff era) actually did this, complete with a "This weeks Top 10" segment, where the US champ was always #1 Contender (the TV Champ usually floated in the 6-8 range). They always handwaved the US champ never chasing the World champ because they were too busy with defending their own belt, until Starrcade 92 where Rude finally was taking the jump after holding the US belt for over a year to take a shot at Simmons, then blew his back out. Then there was the time in WWF where IC Champ Warrior took the shot at Hogan and won, then vacated the IC belt the next week. Holding a mid-card *and* the World Title at the same time is a relatively recent thing (as in the last 25ish years). Oh yeah, for sure. Pedro Morales took the IC to the World title, too, I think. I just mean has this ever been anything other than an occasional thing. It's not like Honky Tonk Man was going after Hogan on the reg based on some #1 contender status granted him by the IC belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 The only times I remember it coming up I think during Luger's US reign Flair was throwing people at him for the US belt to avoid defending the World against him, and Rude actively trying to jump up to a World (he was actively chasing Chono's NWA belt while making it clear as day he's going after Simmons once he's past Cactus' lackeys, then once Ron cleared Barbarian, Rude was fully chasing him) but Watts fucking with him in the Watts/DA feud by making him defending the US belt so he couldn't get a clear shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 17 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: Preaching to the choir. I had a shockingly similar post in either the February or March thread where I said the show would improve with a clear hierarchy for the titles. Or at least giving them distinct identities. I got a lot of push back to that. Especially the hierarchy thought. Titles don't inherently have meaning (outside of your top title). You have to give them meaning with narrative. What separates the International Title from The Continental Title? Which is more important? Why? How does the TNT Title fit into that? It's hard to create stakes for the matches when those plot points are left unclear. hear me out we merge those two into the Intercontinental title 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Cody is unbelievable in these settings. There's a reason why he is and should continue to be the new Cena. https://twitter.com/jedigoodman/status/1775583769023672427 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, zendragon said: hear me out we merge those two into the Intercontinental title TK can have a tournament in Rio. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 8 minutes ago, odessasteps said: TK can have a tournament in Rio. Only if Pat Patterson somehow wins this one, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 35 minutes ago, caley said: Only if Pat Patterson somehow wins this one, too. “16 men were behind him but he came out on top” — Gorilla Monsoon 1 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I hope that anyone (not on here but just a general "anyone") that got worked by Jack Perry's recent comments related to talking to TK/still being part of AEW feels silly after The Young Bucks mentioned him on Dynamite. It never made any sense that going to NJPW was some sort of punishment or that TK was mad at him and wouldn't allow him on AEW. I have no doubt there was initially some annoyance there and they did put him on the shelf for a bit to cool off, but anything he is doing/saying now is 100% storyline and in sync with AEW. Nothing else would make sense. I don't know what the end game will be, maybe he'll wrestle at Forbidden Door as an "outsider" and use that to start wrestling in AEW again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Looked at Collision spoilers and there are a couple of returns that the sickos (i.e. me) will be real excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 There's a certain "magical" one I'm very into. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coletti Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Johnny TV and Taya are on this week's Doughboys podcast, and it's a pretty good listen if you like the idea of fit wrestlers on a podcast about chain restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 They've had Joey Janella, Colt Cobana, and Samoa Joe on before too. I guess those are less fit wrestlers 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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