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July 2023 Wrestling Discussion


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For most of 2023 WWE television has been better than AEW television and I don't even really think it's an argument.  It's also not high praise for WWE.  I like The Bloodline stuff as much as anyone else and I like some of the other things they are doing too like with Gunther's run but the rest is mostly dull and inoffensive.  

AEW has a couple of my favorite PPV's of the year, no question about that. The television though?  Mostly nonsensical.  I throw on Collision last night as we're getting ready to head out and I'm watching MJF squash a jobber and then get on the microphone.  Ok, whatever.  Then Ethan Page comes out, you see he's from Hamilton.  This is again where I say "who cares?" Ethan Page is a heel last time I checked?  Why should he give a shit about what MJF is saying,  I turned it off.  There's too much randomness week to week with no coherent story lines and no real direction for most of the talent. 

The PPVs are dope though. 

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40 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Respectfully, if there were an obsessive non-fanbase who made hating this stuff a key part of their identity, it’d probably sound a lot like that Twilight comparison. 

Well, there is an obsessive fanbase that makes hating AEW a key part of their identity. And a different group of fans really like hatewatching WWE so they can talk about how bad they think it is... although that was a much bigger thing before AEW existed.

Quote

 But if you brought this out of the discord because it wasn’t getting any engagement there (zero), there ya go.

Are you still upset about the Gregg thing?

I posted it in more than one Discord, and quite a few of the Twilight kids agreed with it. But hey, big league away if it makes you feel better. Perhaps in a few minutes you can search my post history to see if I ever said anything else about Twilight, everyone knows you love a good archive dive.

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31 minutes ago, AxB said:

Well, there is an obsessive fanbase that makes hating AEW a key part of their identity. And a different group of fans really like hatewatching WWE so they can talk about how bad they think it is... although that was a much bigger thing before AEW existed.

Are you still upset about the Gregg thing?

I posted it in more than one Discord, and quite a few of the Twilight kids agreed with it. But hey, big league away if it makes you feel better. Perhaps in a few minutes you can search my post history to see if I ever said anything else about Twilight, everyone knows you love a good archive dive.

Everything in the first paragraph is of course true but has nothing to do with the accusation I was making, so whatever. 

Sorry you don’t enjoy people pointing out you’re being a dick from time to time when you take firm condescending tone. No diving needed here, I’ll go elsewhere for my hot Twilight takes. Congrats on the engagement, probably convinced you it was a brain fart worth sharing further. I’ll leave the squabbling there.

To everyone else who has the misfortune of reading this: Sorry for the discord! 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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33 minutes ago, DJ Hero Morganti said:

My thoughts.  Like what you like and instead of talking down to those who don't like it.  Be like "hey i looked this and here is what I got from it, maybe this will help you enjoy it!  If not oh well, what do you like?!"

I think this is our lesson of the evening, along with "nothing good comes from Discord".

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7 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

I think this is our lesson of the evening, along with "nothing good comes from Discord".

I said I was sorry!

Bringing this back to wrestling, and hitting on something I posted in the podcast thread that also got zero engagement, Paul Heyman on Rick Rubin’s pod really crystallized what I’m bumping up against when I watch the Bloodline stuff: As a result of the restrictions that came from the time when people were taking COVID seriously, Roman mentally pivoted from doing what we think of as wrestling “angles” to doing “scenes.” I often think the distinction between wrestling and “sports entertainment” is overblown, but with Roman I sense that this is something distinct. Thinking back on this, I was curious about what are the biggest changes people have experienced or perceived in wrestling that came about because of the pandemic. It was obviously devastating to people who rely on an audience coming out for live events, but I mean more stylistically has it changed anything at a level comparable to what it did to Roman? 

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28 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I said I was sorry!

Bringing this back to wrestling, and hitting on something I posted in the podcast thread that also got zero engagement, Paul Heyman on Rick Rubin’s pod really crystallized what I’m bumping up against when I watch the Bloodline stuff: As a result of the restrictions that came from the time when people were taking COVID seriously, Roman mentally pivoted from doing what we think of as wrestling “angles” to doing “scenes.” I often think the distinction between wrestling and “sports entertainment” is overblown, but with Roman I sense that this is something distinct. Thinking back on this, I was curious about what are the biggest changes people have experienced or perceived in wrestling that came about because of the pandemic. It was obviously devastating to people who rely on an audience coming out for live events, but I mean more stylistically has it changed anything at a level comparable to what it did to Roman? 

Roman is the biggest change by far.

I feel like promos are less... stilted? Paused?

It used to be. 
That every promo.
Sounded.
Like.
This.

But these days the promos feel a little more natural, they flow better. I think not having the crowd there meant that everyone relaxed a little more and let things happen a little more organically.

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7 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Respectfully, if there were an obsessive non-fanbase who made hating this stuff a key part of their identity, it’d probably sound a lot like that Twilight comparison. 

Re: “the other promotion,” much of the discourse surrounding them is about how they shouldn’t care about the mythical “casual fan” or winning new eyeballs, and celebrates rewarding the people who are “invested.” I do enjoy that we’re talking down about people enjoying this thing they’re invested in here, whereas we talk shit about anyone not being invested in something like New Japan cameos in AEW. I guess investing in the wrong thing makes you the equivalent of some dullard who likes the sparkly vampire movies? I don’t get it. But if you brought this out of the discord because it wasn’t getting any engagement there (zero), there ya go. Might be the best place for this is a WWE navel gazing thread.

And I guess to get ahead of this, I’ll go on the record again as a confirmed hater of the Bloodline Roman stuff and I definitely believe Roman’s work has gotten less enjoyable as a result of the pandemic. But I’m happy for the people who are loving it. 

I’ve often had the thought that DVDVR is the equivalent of a film message board for people who want to break down shot composition of Fellini films as opposed to people who just go to the theatre for popcorn and Micheal Bay. Nothing wrong with the second group but we are the wonks.

 

But I guess the bloodline stuff is still a better love story than twilight?

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2 hours ago, zendragon said:

I’ve often had the thought that DVDVR is the equivalent of a film message board for people who want to break down shot composition of Fellini films as opposed to people who just go to the theatre for popcorn and Micheal Bay. Nothing wrong with the second group but we are the wonks.

 

But I guess the bloodline stuff is still a better love story than twilight?

I'm guessing there is Bloodline slash fiction out there somewhere. 

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3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I'm guessing there is Bloodline slash fiction out there somewhere. 

Considering that previous franchise led to 50 Shades, this terrifies me.

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17 hours ago, Robert S said:

I prefer the original:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e112/fadedsoul2099/wrestlingjoke.gif

EDIT: hmm... the embedding of the gif does not work, maybe this does:

FvovSiQXsAMmY6Z.jpg

The Sport of laying an egg, fertilized by mist, that hatches a sumo.

The Religion of having a living demon call out a name and assume their personality/moveset.

The Tradition of being a living Frankenstein's monster/pirate.  

...

This is supposed to be entertaining.  It's supposed to be fun.   

Humorless gatekeeping like the self-righteous graphic above are the absolute worst.  

 

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24 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

There's slash fiction for everything, probably.

Kinkshamer!!!

Hahaha, It was more quality than content, although I'm sure there is a kink for humiliation via terribly written and imagined smut.

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1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

The Sport of laying an egg, fertilized by mist, that hatches a sumo.

The Religion of having a living demon call out a name and assume their personality/moveset.

The Tradition of being a living Frankenstein's monster/pirate.  

...

This is supposed to be entertaining.  It's supposed to be fun.   

Humorless gatekeeping like the self-righteous graphic above are the absolute worst. 

The gif is about 15 years old, it was created in a time where when the ratings did not go the way Vince wanted his first reaction was to bring back some Attitude act/gimmick, usually himself, sometimes DX or similar. I hope we can agree that (1) mid 98 to late 99 Attitude era WWF was awful (I recently tried to go through the Raws of that period and at some point between King of the Ring and Summerslam, the program became unwatchable) and (2) a nostalgia act based on horrible ideas usually sucks even more. I always took the gif in that context that at that point WWE (TNA was also guilty of that) considered one of their worst eras artistically as their big legacy.

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17 minutes ago, Robert S said:

The gif is about 15 years old, it was created in a time where when the ratings did not go the way Vince wanted his first reaction was to bring back some Attitude act/gimmick, usually himself, sometimes DX or similar. I hope we can agree that (1) mid 98 to late 99 Attitude era WWF was awful (I recently tried to go through the Raws of that period and at some point between King of the Ring and Summerslam, the program became unwatchable) and (2) a nostalgia act based on horrible ideas usually sucks even more. I always took the gif in that context that at that point WWE (TNA was also guilty of that) considered one of their worst eras artistically as their big legacy.

I don't think the mindset of "I don't enjoy it, therefore nobody else should either" should be used.

That goes without saying that, as Dolfan mentioned, 15 years ago was also when Hustle was having Yinling the Erotic Terrorist give birth to the Great Muta's mist egg so yeah, the gif is a bad faith argument.

Edited by Sparkleface
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1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Thinking about Terry Funk. Boy is he great! 

I'm going to write about Terry Funk for a bit here.

To me there are three interconnected elements that make Terry Funk so great. That's on top of all of the stuff that makes him so good, too, all of the things you'd expect at a wrestler of his level, just the credible strikes and ability to mat wrestle and everything else along those lines.

But what makes him great?

  1. Selling: All of these are interconnected, to the point I shouldn't even break them down honestly. I'll be talking over myself here. He has an absolute fearlessness in his selling combined with being in the moment at every point that allows him to react honestly to everything that's happening. You see this the most in Japan where, by the end of the 70s, everyone was so careful not to lose their aura of toughness by giving up too much. Funk became the most beloved American ever over there by giving so much, by not being afraid to just give and give and give so that when he did fight his way back and make it to Dory, the fans loved him all the more for it. The level of confidence that took both in himself and in the artform was monumental.
  2. Unpredictability: He reacts to everything, absolutely everything, always being on, and because of that, you never quite know what he's going to do. Will he shake someone's hand? Will he roll outside and start nailing them with a chair? Will he start tossing chairs into the crowd? Will he fall on his ass for no reason? Everything affects him which makes everything matter, but because nothing is rote and predictable, you're drawn in. His reactions always seem somehow right and organic, natural, as if he's able to bend the notion of selling to make it something all his own in a way almost no one else in wrestling history could do.
  3. Presence: Like I said, he's always on, always in the moment, always drawing you in. That's in his selling, in his offense, in his reactions, in his expressions, in his attitude. He never decides to just chill out on the apron or in a hold for a minute. You may not know if you're going to get technical Terry or brawling Terry or temper tantrum Terry or sportsman Terry or unhinged maniac Terry, and that's in the moment, let alone the match. I doubt he knew what he'd be at any moment. He saw stimuli and he charged toward it and in doing so he created a reality all his own, one more vibrant and entertaining and alive than what you'll experience in any part of your day. You never knew what you were going to get, but you know it would be worth watching and you'll be better off for having watched it.
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