July 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

Omg I find myself not only defending the work of CM Punk but now 2002 HHH. Fun.

HHH vs RVD from Unforgiven 2002 is better than anything Aldis has ever done.

And I am fairly certain there are 60 HHH matches that are better than anything Aldis has ever done.

[Matt D]

21 minutes ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

And I am fairly certain there are 60 HHH matches that are better than anything Aldis has ever done.

Not words to say lightly around here. If you’re not careful then this will be your 2024.

[Casey]

Spending a few months watching Triple H matches from 2000 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for me personally. But I couldn't do that for anything after 2001. Not a chance. Yikes.

[Zimbra]

I guess Rush isn't signing with WWE after all.

[nate]

22 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Not words to say lightly around here. If you’re not careful then this will be your 2024.

Aww yeah, H Of The Day, here we come!

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

Omg I find myself not only defending the work of CM Punk but now 2002 HHH. Fun.

HHH vs RVD from Unforgiven 2002 is better than anything Aldis has ever done.

And I am fairly certain there are 60 HHH matches that are better than anything Aldis has ever done.

Yeah, with respect to Casey's dislike of '02 HHH, which he's not wrong about IMO, I don't think Aldis has a better match with '02 RVD than HHH did, and I don't really think that match is anything special. 

I don't like Punk or HHH, but yeah, both those guys are clearly levels above Aldis.

As I reflect, I think really I softened my thoughts about Aldis because I enjoyed his throwback NWA champion gimmick a bunch, what with him talking about how much licensing money he made from being champ and shit like that. But then I think back farther, to TNA, and I thought that Brutus Magnus was shit. So yeah, I would like to adjust my opinion in this regard. 

[AxB]

I have seen it suggested that Aldis' plan was to become an actor, and his wrestling career was supposed to be a stepping stone on the way to that. Only he sort of got stuck.

But it would explain why his matches seem so passionless and half-hearted.
 

On another note, you know how a lot of Wrestlers have moves that they miss in every match? Like Bully Ray's senton, where the opponent gets out of the way every time? Well, last night, Speedball Bailey actually landed the Ultimo Weapon:

https://vxtwitter.com/PuroresuFlow/status/1683571957109858306

Edited July 24, 2023 by AxB

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

On another note, you know how a lot of Wrestlers have moves that they miss in every match? Like Bully Ray's senton, where the opponent gets out of the way every time? Well, last night, Speedball Bailey actually landed the Ultimo Weapon:

https://vxtwitter.com/PuroresuFlow/status/1683571957109858306

Isn't that Bailey's finish? I recall him landing it eventually in all the matches I have seen of his so far.

[elizium]

3 hours ago, nate said:

Aww yeah, H Of The Day, here we come!

Everyday you have to add another H

[SirSmUgly]

I'd prefer a "Who was the most effective HHH in leadership" feature that compares Hubert H. Humphrey's stint as mayor of Minneapolis against Hunter's stint running RAW creatively after Vince McMahon dipped for a minute. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, Casey said:

 

Unrelated but I'm about to enter 2003 WWE and god help me. It's really a chore to watch RAW around that time, and Smackdown is getting close to that territory, but both shows still have their bright spots at this time. 

I have no desire to ever go back and watch 03 Raws  but based on my recollection of that period, I'm willing to bet Jericho and Christian are the MVPs of that show. Orton once you get deep into the Fall is really good on Raw, probably the peak of his Athleticism too

Edited July 25, 2023 by Ziggy

[Shartnado]

19 hours ago, Eivion said:

Isn't that Bailey's finish? I recall him landing it eventually in all the matches I have seen of his so far.

I mean the first Bailey match I ever saw ended with him hitting Ultimo Weapon, so I didn't think him missing it often was a thing! Since then, I have seen him miss it at important times, so I guess I should have figured it out...

[Log]

I was a ringside cam for a Bailey match where he hit it. It was incredible seeing it up close. I don't, for the life of me, know how someone takes that safely.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

19 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I have no desire to ever go back and watch 03 Raws  but based on my recollection of that period, I'm willing to bet Jericho and Christian are the MVPs of that show. Orton once you get deep into the Fall is really good on Raw, probably the peak of his Athleticism too

I'd agree with that, and as an honorable mention, I'll say the first few weeks of unmasked Kane were kind of fun, with the towel on the head, and being brought to the ring in shackles by security. Jericho/Michaels at WM was awesome, as was Rock/Austin in a sort of 'Attitude Era Series Finale' kinda way, which really is only possible w the benefit of hindsight. Other than that, it was a pretty butt year of RAW.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[SirSmUgly]

4 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I'd agree with that, and as an honorable mention, I'll say the first few weeks of unmasked Kane were kind of fun, with the towel on the head, and being brought to the ring in shackles by security. Jericho/Michaels at WM was awesome, as was Rock/Austin in a sort of 'Attitude Era Series Finale' kinda way, which really is only possible w the benefit of hindsight. Other than that, it was a pretty butt year of RAW.

Hollywood Rock in general was so good that basically, they had to turn the guy face almost immediately after they had initially turned him heel because the crowd was sick of him as a face. He was a heel for the short Hogan feud in February, through WM, and then like the month after that, like after Backlash, he was a face again. 

Him shitting on Toronto, "Leavin' Sacramento," his mini-feud with the Hurricane, all of it was solid gold IMO. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[John E. Dynamite]

38 minutes ago, Log said:

I was a ringside cam for a Bailey match where he hit it. It was incredible seeing it up close. I don't, for the life of me, know how someone takes that safely.

The idea behind the move - the Moonsault Double Knees - has been a thing for so long. It's nearly a Joshi staple and was a common Tiger Mask IV spot for decades. Kota did it for awhile. I'm almost certain I remember Alexa Bliss hitting it.

We aren't workers. We're aware of some moves that look GNARLY that are genuinely safe (using your arms to push off the person who's piledriving you's thighs! relaxing/pulling up your knees the second before you hit a double stomp!), some of us are dorks who took stage combat classes and know how to knap (like slapping yr leg onna superkick! stomping the mat onna 80's punch! or the secret M***y S****l finger break trick!), and then we get into the UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS. Moves that look nasty and we don't know if they're the real deal or if we're just in the dark about the trick behind it. BUT human fucking beings tend to assume that if they can't immediately figure something out it must be the worst possible outcome and those that use the move are bad.

The absolutely manufactured bullshit pearl-clutch concern trolling neo-wrestle-weirdoism of the Omega/Ospreay Tiger Driver '91 has really put this kinda shit into contrast. If somebody gets hurt, hey man, criticize. There's some stupid fuckin' moves out there like Crucifix Powerbombs and amateur German Suplexes and Buckle Bombs that need to die quick. But the history of the Moonsault Double Knees so far says otherwise.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

57 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Hollywood Rock in general was so good that basically, they had to turn the guy face almost immediately after they had initially turned him heel because the crowd was sick of him as a face. He was a heel for the short Hogan feud in February, through WM, and then like the month after that, like after Backlash, he was a face again. 

Him shitting on Toronto, "Leavin' Sacramento," his mini-feud with the Hurricane, all of it was solid gold IMO. 

Oh yeah, big time agree there. I was there for the second 'This is Your Life' segment with Foley that year and it was some the most fun I've ever had at a WWF/E show ever. I'm not really a huge movie buff so it may have happened already and I don't realize, but someday, some Hollywood person is going to find that and some of the 98/99 stuff on the Network and make a fortune being the first to cast him as a villain

Edited July 25, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath
Lol I 100% forgot about the existence of Black Adam. But I was thinking something smarmier more than monstrous. I didn't see the movie.

[SirSmUgly]

I feel like 2023 Dwayne Johnson is too fragile to play the part of a deluded movie star that he did as Hollywood Rock, mostly because he is now IRL a deluded movie star. 

[Cobra Commander]

It's kinda remarkable they were able to get 6ish months of Rock as a heel in late 98/early 99 because I remember it seeming like people were ready for him to be a face

then again my part of the country also has an unusually high Samoan/Polynesian population so I'd imagine the Rock was super-over there for the late 90s (one of my close friends claimed that somebody a few blocks over was related to the Rock and would have him over when the WWF was in town, on one hand, that seems like a lie that kids would tell, on the other hand, there were enough Samoans around to make it plausible)

[Log]

@John E. Dynamite I’m not saying Bailey hurts people with the move. I was just so impressed that I couldn’t “see the strings” even up close. 

You have to figure if pretty much everyone he faces takes it, it must be fine. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Log

[John E. Dynamite]

9 minutes ago, Log said:

@John E. Dynamite I’m not saying Bailey hurts people with the move. I was just so impressed that I couldn’t “see the strings” even up close. 

You have to figure if pretty much everyone he faces takes it, it must be fine. 

Never thought you were saying otherwise, just spitting mild venom at people who get all Hank Hill when they can't burn a magician.

[BloodyChamp]

I haven’t seen a ton of CM Punk because I had moved on from it all but what I’ve seen looking stuff back up has been amazing, including his promos. His worked shoot stuff could have been better if it weren’t so obviously scripted word for word IMO. If they’d have handed him the mic and said just do it, and even shaved off 5 whole minutes, it would have been a lot better. 

And the straight edge heel stuff. That wasn’t all bad but that’s the best thing I can say about that. A heel who calls the audience on any kind of true shit isn’t supposed to be a dork heel. He was standing there talking like Clarence Mason. He should have been going straight ECW Cactus Jack on them. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[SirSmUgly]

48 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

It's kinda remarkable they were able to get 6ish months of Rock as a heel in late 98/early 99 because I remember it seeming like people were ready for him to be a face

then again my part of the country also has an unusually high Samoan/Polynesian population so I'd imagine the Rock was super-over there for the late 90s (one of my close friends claimed that somebody a few blocks over was related to the Rock and would have him over when the WWF was in town, on one hand, that seems like a lie that kids would tell, on the other hand, there were enough Samoans around to make it plausible)

Nah, you remember correctly. Everyone wanted Rock to turn face and he teased a face turn going into Deadly Games, then re-established himself as a heel after that. 

I think it only worked for as long as it did because he was allied with Vince McMahon, who at the time was such a mega-heel that he had the ability to poison the Rock for just enough time to keep him heel through WM XV. 

[Zimbra]

My take on the Bailey spot is that I bet it cracks your back so good

[The Natural]

Hollywood Rock is the best version of The Rock by far. I unashamedly know the lyrics by heart of The Rock RAW concert, the first before facing Steve Austin at WrestleMania XIX (a top five WrestleMania). Two of the lone bright spots of 2003 WWE alongside Vengeance, Eddie Guerrero as WWE United States Champion as the belt was brought back, ditto for the WWE Intercontinental Championship. Stupid that went for a time between October 2002-May 2003.