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We are in such a great place on the wrestling time continuum. On the Fight Network, they had TNA Wrestling featuring Ospreay vs Alexander followed by NJPW featuring Danielson vs Okada last night. So awesome.

There is lots of room for lots of different things in AEW. Tons of TV time. I think every PPV should have a Komander vs Gringo Loco vs Vikingo vs Jack Cartwheel sort of match even though that's not at all my favorite sort of thing. That's maybe a different notion than the idea that "working" is inherently right or wrong or best. The entire tradition of pro wrestling criticism that ultimately led to the creation of AEW is that the style of 80s minimalism/working was inherently worse than a workrate heavy action-driven approach. Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid was right. Jimmy Valiant wiggling about to get reactions was wrong. That's basically the ONLY school of wrestling criticism through the 80s and 90s, with DVDVR coming in at the end of the 90s, expanding upon that, still leaning upon it, but allowing for a broader and more expansive approach to what was considered good that was based on just watching a lot of stuff and being open to it. It was really in the late 2000s with the advent of easier footage availability and the 80s sets that tastes changed and different viewpoints were considered. Now, while younger generations with infinite access to footage and the more counterculture viewpoints of the last fifteen years have emerged, and are generally less dependent on Meltzerian/Keithian dogmatism, I'd argue that most wrestling fans on the internet still worship at the altar of workrate. We've seen an evening out of Bret vs Shawn but not, let's say, Henry vs Angle. Basically, if this is what you want, you're going to get it virtually everywhere but here and a few other boards/discords. And even then, there's room here for mostly every opinion that doesn't absolutely shut the door on some other opinion. The idea that working is inherently evil and manipulative and wrestling should be a more tacit and open collaborative arrangement between wrestler and crowd is, I think, interesting to explore. I've talked a lot about the chemical change and how incentives have changed and audience expectations have changed. But if wrestling is about storytelling, think of other narrative mediums. Would you want a TV show or a mystery novel not try to lead the audience around. Would you want it to just give them everything they wanted and as much as they wanted all the time in exactly the way they wanted? Is that good for either artist or audience? I get that none of this is exactly what's being said here, but I think all of it applies to one degree or another, even in just people taking what other people may be thinking to a logical extreme. In finality, my opening paragraph stands. It's a lot of hours a week with a lot of possibilities and lots of ways to achieve different ends with different means. I know what I think is right and what I consider wrong (maybe even heretical) but I know that I'm not the only audience.

It is the right of every generation’s youth to dress like absolute shit in new and fascinating ways

I’ve waited patiently and intensely for 53 minutes so I wouldn’t quadruple post. Thanks @TheVileOne

I think the way I've always personally looked at things (and I've probably expressed this a lot so if this is rehash, well, skip on by) is that I don't like looking at things in a vacuum. Whether it's simplistic work like two people hiding a gimmick for 45 minutes, as Technico refers to them, or action-packed stunt shows, as Matt refers to them, if I don't have a reason to care about the participants and they're just interchangeable parts to get me to whatever comes next, then I don't really enjoy that. I can watch highlights and gifs and whatever for that. Like Kris Statlander. Loved her as alien Kris Statlander, thought she was great. Since coming back from injury, she's been regular old Kris Statlander from Long Island and, I dunno, it just hasn't connected the same. I guess because now there's no hook and she's just another interchangeable part, which stinks. Looking at the mechanics of what she's doing isn't different, but the hook isn't there for me anymore, and I can tell you exactly what the dividing line was and what changed for me. And it seems like every time I bring this up, someone goes "well you just want 2000s WWE with constant sports entertainment and no wrestling", and that's not what I want at all! I need something to care about other than "these people are having a match, and they want to win, and wow [can they do lots of moves/hide the gimmick]". But for some reason it seems like we can't have it all, so instead we attack each other by reducing our arguments to their most base components and call each other stupidheads.

The heat for Crocs on this page has me convinced Nick Wayne now needs boots styled to look like em - kinda like how when Cena started the rap gimmick he had the ones with the Adidas stripes

A street befitting the One Man Gang

In theory, you have Sting leaving and Danielson going part time. Not sure how long Omega will be out. The roster competition for tv time will be interesting.

Maybe it's there so guys can do a quick, shocking table spot like we saw with Joe and Hook. As opposed to the EVIL HEEL carefully removing the monitors first, which always looks dumb. "Yes, I want to slam you on this table and injure you, but those monitors have sharp edges! I am an asshole but not a fucking asshole." It was probably a Death of Superman reference or something.

or knowing Cody... nothing

That’s Rated FTR, thank you very much.

Trent/Chuck not having any gold at this point in the company's run is borderline criminal, i'd have even taken a trios run with OC.

So Sabu started doing the Leg Lariat into the corner off a chair, and Joey Styles called it Air Sabu. Then he went to AJPW, and Baba said don’t use a chair, so RVD started going on all fours to make it a tag move. OK. Then the Hardys steal it for on telly, and either Jim Ross or Michael Cole names it Poetry in Motion (and nowadays it’s more Poetry in Slow Motion, but let’s not go there). But now the Hardys’ trios partner is Mark Briscoe. Noted Chicken Farmer Mark Briscoe. Come on AEW, do the right thing here. Poultry in Motion. It’s right there.

Man, just barely caught up on everything since last week's Rampage, but damn is Purrazzo great. Gotta give Red credit for keeping up last week, and Anna did fine but if we can get the ladies more time with a division based around Deonna, Toni, Hayter and maybe Moné? Shit's gonna ruuuule.

Seeing a lot of people chanting the "Go woke, go broke" mantra about Sports Illustrated, namely, their decisions to put a plus size woman and a woman (who is trans) on the cover of the swimsuit issue. Of course, the real lesson is that 'Be old-school and fail to change with the times means you'll die off like the dinosaurs" will go RIGHT over the CHUDlets heads at about Mach 2.1.

They’re not comfortable. Also, they cause the soles of your feet to dry out and peel. I just see so many boys mostly when I go to pick up my daughter from school, middle school, and they’re all wearing Crocs. And pajamas. I went to the same middle school. We were NEVER allowed to just wear pajama pants. We’d have to call out folks and they’d have to come and bring us a change of pants. I used to joke about Jnco jeans making a comeback, but now I’d prefer that over whatever the fuck kids are wearing now. It’s not me who’s wrong, it’s the children.

Ah shit, my bad. I read that too quickly and thought it said "Danhausen." Which is confusing because he's already part time

I'd always figured Gary Hart would have been a White Sox fan, he has more of a South Side vibe.

I feel AEW isn’t old enough. Give me the dream match of El Satanico vs Hacksaw Jim Dugan

Gah damn did I love New Generation when I was a kid. A lot of talented people working a lot of shit-tastic gimmicks.

Hangman somehow prevents Swerve from winning the belt when he's right on the cusp, leading to Joe retaining and a final Hangman/Swerve blowoff, maybe. Hangman did cut that promo about keeping Swerve from winning the title. Swerve hits the Swerve stomp on Joe, Joe is beat, Hangman hits Swerve with the Buckshot, then Joe knocks Hangman out of the ring and steals the pin. I do hate that finish AND first-pin three ways, but what can you do? Three common @Elsalvajeloco post categories that I love because he's passionate about them: Boxing New Generation era WWF awfulness Shitty, weird, small buildings where awful New Generation era WWF ran

Oh shit yeah, the tube socks with Crocs (and, for many, the pieces of flair pinned to the Crocs) in public settings is definitely this generation’s Umbro shorts, tube socks and Adidas slippers If Tony knows what he’s doing he’ll get Hook and Nick Wayne in Tiger Beat

Joe/Hook brought me back to 2005 TNA when he was killing X-Division guys to build up to his matches with AJ and Daniels. Really effective TV main where the challenger looks like a tough bastard with a bright future while not being seriously competitive with the champ. It really sucks that Juice is hurt, because BCG really misses him. Jay's the star, no doubt, but Juice as the transition guy between the credible star and the stooges is what made the group work. Without him, it just looks like Jay is being used to pump up the cred for Billy's fail-sons as a favor to the promoter, especially as babyfaces. I'll accept this temporarily if the trios belts merge, though. They probably should've had Private Party do a few weeks of warm-up matches before hyping a big spotfest with Top Flight. Marq Quen looked out of shape and rusty as hell. I'm hoping we'll get an extensive series of Deonna/Serena matches down the road.

Guys, shut the thread down. @AxB won this month.

There's a Rick DeSantis joke in here among all this high heels discussion.

That's a spoiler! Okay, here you go: When I was in the crowd, I was asking myself, "Is this a good match?" Nearly every move was a crazy dive involving a ladder or table, and only half of the moves landed properly. It was like eating a six-course meal, with every course being cake, and only three of the cakes were good.

Sandman episode, fuck yeah, there better be a re-enactment of what Sandman thought he was seeing while wrestling Sabu while high on hallucinogenics at November to Remember 97 in what of the greatest train wreck matches ever.

All part of the WBD family. #synergy

Yes.

I preferred the future where the robots did manual labour and humans did the creative endeavours, not the other way around that we're getting.

There’s something funny about Christian and Dustin being the examples cited in a post that devolves into a grievance against guys who do barely anything and take the night off when their match this past week had (off the top of my head; but I’m happy to go back and rewatch if necessary): -a superplex -a splash -a dive over the post to the floor -a destroyer on the floor -a finisher kick out -very physical collisions This is a TV first promotion and when the red light is on, I frankly don’t see many people assing off or taking the night off. I see a lot of people giving it their best effort every time out. Not everyone’s max-effort is equal, but are we holding it against people for making the most of what they have by deploying it shrewdly? Not being on the most extreme end of the maximalist bombfest scale isn’t a reflection of a lack of effort or a sign the performers think they’re taking advantage of the audience. I don’t want to go as far as to say it’s disrespectful to engage in work like that in this way, but I think we can do better. All of that said, I understand that the Bucks’ promo was repugnant and it was meant to provoke extreme opinions, so I blame them for all of this.

To me, the difference with late 90s WCW is that the old guys are nowhere close to monopolizing the top spots in AEW. I mean, yeah, Samoa Joe is on the old side, but before him MJF had their longest world title reign yet and I believe he's in his 20s. Hangman wasn't old; Kenny Omega wasn't old; Moxley is a veteran but I wouldn't call him old. Punk and Jericho were long in the tooth when they held the big belt, yes, but there's a big difference in my view between having veterans/old guys on your show and having them dominate the top like they did in 90s WCW. So to segue into why they're there - I see a couple of reasons. First, having them on the roster can only help the young guys get better. Second, they offer a change of pace. You may not like slow, psychology-based matches, but a lot of people do. They're another ring in AEW's proverbial circus. If you like action-packed PWGesque matches, great, AEW still has a shit-ton of those. Nothing wrong with showcasing another style as well, though. Variety makes for a better show.

I get him! I appreciate his point of view! The man wants sensation and innovation and action and drama in the moment. I just think that he should go to the circus and watch a stunt show instead.

I feel like "New Generation" WWF was just 80s WWF with better production values (except those tapings where they ran what looked like a quonset hut) and sometimes less steroids. Like it was Vince's perfect vision of technicolor bombast and wackiness but he couldn't realize it until the times caught up with him.

Every high school boy at my current gym has hair more in line with Nick Wayne (The Broccoli Cut) than Hook. Always 3-4 to a bench, wearing Crocs.

Pushing Hiromu up would him losing the Jr Title without breaking the record make sense. I was so sure he'd break Tanaka's record. He'd surely be in their top 5 draw options at the moment. Problem is that it over-stacks LiJ again... This kind of speculation on who benefits and what will happen is really pumping me up haha! I might be the odd one out in that I'm really excited about the prospect of what could happen and the implications

New Japan's first three cards this year have all been tremendous, and yes, Okada was obviously an important part of that, but he wasn't the only reason. They also had a pretty solid (and underrated) 2023 with a reloaded roster of fresh new faces. I felt the same way about CMLL a couple of years back; unsure but lots of promise on the horizon, and now they (CMLL) are delivering consistently with a couple big stars on top but mainly with a younger roster all hitting their stride seemingly at the same time. I see a similar situation developing with New Japan. Honestly, I've felt New Japan's main event scene has been incredibly stale for a long time. Sure, Sanada was an experiment of sorts (just not for me, but no need to argue that now), but Naito winning at the dome was an inevitability, and then what? As some have suggested, Okada vs. Naito at next year's WK? Groan. Okada is unquestionably an all-timer, but he's done literally everything he could do in New Japan. I think for all parties concerned, a change of pace and scenery is long overdue. Good for him, actually. I wish him well. Jay White never fully clicked for me in New Japan, he's far more engaging in AEW. Ospreay had 8 years for New Japan, and him leaving is actually a bigger blow to them than Okada, in my honest opinion. Change is good. Finally give the belt to ZSJ. Shingo is right fucking there. Tsuji is already 30, Uemura 29. Shota and Ren already have a significant rivalry. ELP, War Dogs, relationship with CMLL stronger than ever. Let's fucking go.

First time I’ve watched Impact night of instead of letting them pile up on the DVR in a long time. Long live the re-brand! Long live TNA! Great showcase of all flavors of what this brand has been. A multi-man X scramble, a women’s showcase, a warm-up for the future tag champs, a PCO squash, and an inspirational main event with the face of the franchise and someone who was inspired by the franchise. Punctuated by a very effective motivational speech from someone I don’t tend to consider a great motivational speaker. This was great wrestling TV. Dolph should have done this a decade ago. Maybe he’d be headlining Mania this year. Excited to see what identity he finds and where.

Sounds like @Gordi the former AEW fan will be able to see one of the last Okada matches as a full time NJPW roster member.

Well, NWN! Productions founder/head Yosuke is starting a new vinyl pressing plant in Texas called Helios Press (which is good news for EVERYONE who buys vinyl, because they will be printing all genres for anybody, domestically and internationally) so he decided to drop some used stuff on the NWN mail order site to help with costs and I got... Loudness - Disillusion for $20~! Cool follow-up to our conversation above. Anyway, there will be a Kickstarter coming later in the year for the boiler and cooler needed to run the plant and I will post a link to that when it lands. Considering how few pressing plants there are worldwide (100 total with only 10 capable of serious mass production) this is something well worth supporting.

Say hello to Tori Black, who totally isn't Black Taurus with a new name *googles* oh no well... the backup name is Submission Sorority, that should be cool, right?

I haven’t read any of the comments yet, but I’ve been looking forward to Joe vs Hook all week. I don’t think there’s another prospect in wrestling that excites me more than Hook does and Joe is one of the all time bests. This may be hyperbole, I don’t know, but there isn’t a single wrestler for any of the last few generations that brings a big fight feel to a match like Joe does. There is a definite difference to the feel Joe brings to a match than anyone else does. I mean, Roman, MJF, Mox, Seth, Punk…none of those guys makes a match feel like a big time fight. Samoa Joe does. Look no further than Joe vs Brock. So for this match, I don’t know if it was just Joe, the presentation, or what, but there was a palpable difference between this and every other title match and I loved it. I was on the edge of my seat that entire match. It ruled so fucking much. AEW’s track record of how challengers that lose title matches isn’t the best. The challenger just kinda fades away for a bit. Right now, Hook is a made man. You gotta capitalize on this someway somehow and make this the year of Hook and start building this kid up to win it all at the end of the year. Feel free to disagree, but wrestling needs someone like Hook. AEW needs someone like Hook. He stands out in the same way OC does. His look, aura, attitude, and style is entirely unique.

It's probably good that I'm not on creative because Pretty Deadly would be all over television. I can't explain exactly why but I love those guys. Bailey talking about Ripley has me hoping it's just misdirection. To me the obvious story is her getting kicked out of Damage Control and going after Io.

Maybe a professional shoegazer.

Oh indeed

Wrote it better than I could. Okada has done everything (so has Naito along with being all busted up), Tana finally moved into the position he should have, Nakamura ain't coming back, Shibata is continental. As NJ themselves might put it, "NEW GENERATION LET'S GO!" EDIT: I swear I didn't notice you already wrote "let's go" at the end haha

Finished Kayfabe by Patrick Reed last night and I can thoroughly recommend it. It is strongest in the early chapters, delivering almost unbelievable tales of shady characters but Pat’s fluid writing and view through the window of kayfabe make even the more familiar (to me) later stories an entertaining and interesting read.

That's actually not too far off. A couple of weeks ago I went over to their place for the Michigan/Washington football game. The kid came up and said hello and I gave him a high five and said "How's it going, Hook?" and her eyes rolled so hard that it sounded like she was bowling.

OH! Triple post, sorry. Toni getting both Deonna and Renee to break at the same time ruled. She’s on the level of Sami getting everyone to break. God help anyone that has promo segments against Toni. I hope they have nerves of steel.