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The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


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14 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I tend to enjoy STW except when Bruce goes on his utterly fake anti-Meltzer rants and acts like he's deeply insulted and hates Dave and Dave made everything up... And then confirms 95+% of what Dave said. (And the video of the two of them being friendly that floats around.)

Mostly though, Bruce is a fun storyteller as long as you mentally prepare yourself that at least half of what he says is probably bullshit.

Bischoff's show bounces back and forth between some really interesting business talk and a perspective that nobody else really gives, and then into being the most whiny little bitch you'll ever hear.  He's a smarmy opportunist, and he can't always hide it.

I'm not a regular listener to any of Conrad's shows and certainly will never pay money for his subscription service, but if the topic is interesting I'll usually give them a listen. Less Tony because it's almost all watch-a-longs and I listen to podcasts while I'm at work.

I listen to more of Cornette than I should, but God the history stuff is just so much fun. And some of his criticisms of current shows are very valid. But the deep sexism (constantly calling it "girls matches", all the women's names he constantly mispronounces, and not the insult names he gives to men, just flat out saying their names wrong, etc) the more than occasional casual racism, the constant use of homosexuality as an insult, and his inability to not make "I don't like the way this person performs in pro wrestling" a personal vendetta. He's just not emotionally healthy. And the way Brian Last goes off on Bix on occasion is hilariously self-delusional if you remember the early 605 pods.

 

Dude, we're both basically in the same wheelhouse. You're exactly spot on. The only difference is I do like the watch alongs. Although, if it's a really good show, it's much tougher cause you want to actually watch the show. Spring Stampede 94 is probably the obvious answer because it's an ATG show and Bobby Heenan is ON FIRE, you hear me?

During the Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne Chicago Street Fight:

"If the Cubs could hit like that, they'd be in the World Series!"

"Tell 'em to bring the meat wagon back....we got more work for 'em"

*in his best Chris Berman voice*

"BACK BACK BACK...GONE!"

During Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck:

*a bloody Dustin Rhodes crawls across the ring and pulls a small, white crumbled up piece of paper out of his jeans*

"What's he got in his hands?...His will?!"

That's a show where you don't need alternative commentary. However, when Rude and Vader get into the fight in the locker room and Jerry Saggs is in a bath towel cause he just got out of the shower, that's when WHW excels.

As for Eric, you're completely right. Bischoff strikes me as a guy who 100% should be in like the business, marketing, or maybe production side of wrestling. I think it's crazy that folks don't really give him that credit. They will give him credit if he's an onscreen performer but nothing else. I think in terms of booking or most creative decisions, he probably should stay away 90% of the time. As you know, he constantly brings up or has several times brought up the fact that WCW needed a Pat Patterson so they could come up with better finishes. And he's right. The bigger problem is I think Eric has always been swayed by certain personalities and egos backstage. I'm not completely blaming him for that because to me, IMO, he was in an unwinnable situation if you're looking at the long game. At some point, these guys who already aren't bending their will to you (but you are with them) are going eliminate all your sensible and logical booking options. If a guy simply doesn't want to do a job or doesn't want to do it a certain way or just flat out refuses to do storyline or angles a certain way, then you are screwed. Moreover, you had guys flat out no showing Starrcade 97 (their biggest show ever, mind you) calling in sick or what have you. Let me tell you what would happen if people tried that with Vince on ANY major show: your ass won't be on the next show or any show after that. It's clear from listening to these shows (especially if you hear him defeatedly say they had no clear end for the NWO) that he was taken advantage of in certain respects and that caused him to lose focus. He had something great going, and they lost the plot. It's very intriguing to listen to how he coped with all that through the years and periods he was there.

And it's also hilarious to hear him rail on Bill Watts. He fucking HATES Bill Watts. He went on one little tirade about Ole, Watts, and Jerry Jarrett that was GRAND. As much as he's being a mean dick, he's absolutely 100% right. And I'm someone who disagrees with his idea that WCW was too southern overall (shit, we're talking about a company that idiotically was running the Great Western Forum, Tingley Coliseum in Albuquerque, and the Meadowlands in the period before he got in control). However, in the bigger picture when he's explaining himself in said tirade, he's right that all these guys like Watts and Jarrett (hell, you can throw Cornette in there with the benefit of hindsight) for all their genius and knowledge of their craft, they were too ass backwards and too masturbatory for their own good to lift the business out of it's funk. The guy people were calling Verne Gagne's coffee boy and Ken Doll looking motherfucker or whatever was the one who did it. That chaps a lot of people's hides. It's funny cause Tony Khan might be on that same trajectory. Who knows? It's just that in pro wrestling I believe when it comes to people in charge, the quote to the effect of "there is no perfect messenger, only perfect messages" definitely applies. If you want to call Bischoff a cocky, arrogant, too cool for the room entitled prick (his rich aristocrat cadence kills me), you would have a case. Or if you want to say the biggest whiny bitch ever like Fowler stated, you would have a case as well. However, he's the guy who scored the touchdown. He made the play everyone will remember and got the Super Bowl ring. I mean he played on teams that got their doors blown off AFTER that, but you can't take that away from him.

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8 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Bischoff's show bounces back and forth between some really interesting business talk and a perspective that nobody else really gives, and then into being the most whiny little bitch you'll ever hear.  He's a smarmy opportunist, and he can't always hide it.

You forgot about my all-time favourite Eric Bischoff: I think highly of myself as a martial artist, so let me talk about this guy's kicks. 

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@Elsalvajelocomy favorite Heenan bit from that show:

Heenan: I'm also a legend in this sport. If you don't believe me, just ask me.

 

Tony: Are you a legend in this sport?

 

Bobby: Of course I am, I just told you, don't you listen to me?

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13 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

You forgot about my all-time favourite Eric Bischoff: I think highly of myself as a martial artist, so let me talk about this guy's kicks. 

...so let me talk about everyone's Back Leg Round Kick. FTFY. 

Say it one more time, Bischoff. 

 

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On 2/25/2021 at 8:35 AM, Technico Support said:

Hey man, we're just going to agree to disagree on this.  It's cool.  It's not just about "selling some shirts."  I've tried to get it across but you're ignoring my point or not seeing it, and that's fine.  My point was that Conrad comes across as a guy always looking for an angle, something to sell, which feels disingenuous to me.  I can't personally enjoy a show when I feel like the show is secondary to the host's need to sell me some shit.  Everybody needs to make money, but don't be so overt about it.  That's my whole point.  I'm not begrudging the guy for trying to make money.  I'm begrudging the guy for being so artlessly obvious and distasteful about it.  YMMV. 

There's nothing wrong with not enjoying Conrad or his style. You're allowed to like what you like. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, rather just add a perspective I don't think is getting represented in the discussion.

The inorganic catch phrases you hate. If every post you made on this board were super popular to the point you sold 10,000 shirts every time you made a catch phrase... you'd probably keep doing it too lol. Right? I mean it would be one thing if they did all this inorganic shit for nothing. But they are rolling in bank. When people stop buying the shirts he will stop hawking catch phrases. I can't begrudge him for that. And agreeing with your main point, he *is* a carny salesman. He runs a mortgage company. That's only like half a rung under insurance salesman lol. But he will never try and get a job with WWE or AEW. Because he would have to take a six or seven digit pay cut. He's super successful with the mortgages and the podcast stuff. So that, I don't think, is his goal.

Just trying to maybe give you a different pov to view it from. Not trying to change your mind. I didn't jump on Conrad podcasts until a few years in. So I probably missed the worst of it. I also avoid the Schivonne podcast all together because I don't find anything useful there. Its three hours of small dick jokes and not a lot of wrestling knowledge added. So I see where you're coming from. I do Love 83 Weeks & STW tho. Arn & JR are hit & miss for me.

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IMO Schiavone is much better when he's watching Crockett or something he's never seen before. That said, since he's been with AEW for the last year and a half, he's cut a lot of the juvenile humor out just because you cannot do that working for the company the size of AEW. A lot of the corny stuff they did early in the podcast (back when Tony was with MLW and when you had adverts with Sean Mooney doing MLW updates), they have since dropped cold turkey. I did notice, however, that from a few shows last year that he (Tony) seemed be out of sync with Conrad and Conrad couldn't get much out of him (much like when they first started the podcast years ago). So when Conrad said he had an announcement late last year and it would probably piss folks off, I thought he was ending WHW because Tony's workload in AEW was too much (since then, they've routinely talk about Tony filming Dark until 2 or 3 in the morning).

Turns out going to 1986 JCP, which was the announcement, revitalized the podcast to me because now both guys are invested. I would like for them to look through a variety of stuff, but it's clear that honeymoon phase is over as they've already went through a bulk of WCW and surprisingly a lot of ECW high (and low) points. 

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The Crockett 86 WHW shows are super fun, and instead of Conrad's Observer and Torch bits, he's using the great Richard Land's History of the WWE site for research. 

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23 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

he's cut a lot of the juvenile humor out just because you cannot do that working for the company the size of AEW.

Also, working for AEW already means getting your fill of juvenile humor. 

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Also, working for AEW already means getting your fill of juvenile humor. 

I dunno if it's funny or just an overall indictment about the state of wrestling that stuff he does drop (the button on the fur coat, glass bottom boat ride, talking about Flair's dick, etc.) he could probably get away with if he knew how to walk that line. However, anytime one of the attractive female from wrestling hits the screen on a watch along or Conrad talks about one of the pornstars he knows, it always goes into some creepy old man territory. That should be the time someone superkicks him in the face.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/15/2021 at 11:47 PM, odessasteps said:

This popped up in my YouTube feed. Looks like the Gino episode but with new ? Wraparounds with Conrad and the EPs. 

This was the first time I saw this particular episode. It's certainly changed my view on a lot of points about the subject, and now I'm not so sure what I believe. Anyone else feel the same way?

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On 3/16/2021 at 8:20 AM, PetrolCB said:

Yeah, they're doing that for all of last season's episodes, leading into the new ones in a few months. 

They aired one for The Montreal Screwjob from S1 too.

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9 hours ago, Casey said:

They aired one for The Montreal Screwjob from S1 too.

I watched that and it didn't register. I guess they're cherry picking the best episodes?

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Oddly enough, my recordings for the Confidential episodes end after this coming Tuesday's Last of the Von Erichs. Nothing on 3/30 for Dark Side of the Ring.

 

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Deadline has a story that says they will do a Confidentials for 8 episodes in total from Season 1 and Season 2

The only three mentioned in the story are the two they already did and the one for the Von Erich episode this week.

So to address Casey's point - it is possible they haven't finished shooting them yet

https://deadline.com/2021/03/vice-dark-side-of-the-ring-franchise-deep-dive-talkshow-1234704091/

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Season 3 Premieres May 6

so the official listing in there is: Pillman, Nick Gage, Ultimate Warrior, Collision in Korea, Grizzly Smith, and Dynamite Kid.

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Reminder for folks that Confidential permanently moves to Thursdays starting this week (since they are avoiding NXT)

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Vice is also doing Dark Side of Football and Dark Side of the '90s. Which lends a lot of credence to Steve Albini's rant about them being cultural vultures who sell programming based on the worst life has to offer. 

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6 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Vice is also doing Dark Side of Football and Dark Side of the '90s. Which lends a lot of credence to Steve Albini's rant about them being cultural vultures who sell programming based on the worst life has to offer. 

That's their one formula.  Their other formula is "take a normal show genre like cooking or whatever, then add weed."

RIP interesting Vice shows like Cyberwar and Abandoned (and the aforementioned The Wrestlers, which I guess was too positive or they couldn't figure out a way to creatively add weed and B/C level rappers.

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Not for nothing, I would be all over a show that spotlights a particular wrestler, era, promotion, feud or whatnot and just waxes enthusiastic about it. A bunch of old workers and historians and celebrity fans just gushing & kvelling and explaining why *such&such* is ssooo great, with references for further study. I am sure that there are podcasts like this (don't listen to them, I am on one) but a streaming show with a budget would be festive.

- all about thee positivity,

RAF

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The Wrestlers was that positive show, but with current wrestlers. I agree with others here who’ve said they’d like to see more episodes of that one. 
 

in defense of Dark Side, they do tend to try to show something positive or uplifting that came from the tragedy. The Benoit episodes, which were probably the most bleak, ended with his Nancy’s sister reuniting with her nephew. Owen’s episode showed that his kids have, by all appearances, grown into good people. I honestly don’t know how they can do that for something like the Grizzly Smith episode, but that show’s not 100% doom and gloom. 

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