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MAY WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD


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What's the most definitive example of a babyface thoroughly losing an extensive feud to the heel?

Ryder/Kane is the first that comes to mind, but sure there are better?

 

Ryder/Kane is actually a really good answer. I don't know if Ryder got heat on Kane at any point, and it's not like Kane is notoriously protected. There was the flat tire incident, and he kept getting more and more injured, and Kane just kept beating him up more and more.

 

HHH vs. Eugene came to mind. I'm not sure Eugene did much except run intereference during HHH's iron man with Benoit, while HHH gave him and Regal multiple bloody beatdowns, beat him clean in the Summer Slam match, and broke his arm a short while later to take him off tv.

 

Hogan vs. Savage in WCW was pretty bad too. Savage took NWO beatings/spray-paintings almost every week (including them spraying his bald spot one time) and never really got much back on Hogan. He would always do those things where he'd take forever to back Hogan down, but not actually hit him like an idiot, until the rest of the NWO caught up to him. Hogan also tricked Liz into joining the NWO somehow and won the blowoff match at Halloween Havoc with shenanigans. Savage disappeared for a couple months and returned, only to join the NWO and play second fiddle to Hogan for the remainder of its existence.

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Not sure if we have a Chikara thread anymore but they are coming back to NC-Gibsonville to be exact on 10/25/2014 and making their first trip into VA-Richmond on 10/26/2014

 

I say we have a VA-DVDVR meet up for the Richmond show!!

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Assuming Daniel gets stripped, and from a storyline perspective it makes no sense for them not to strip him if he can't defend in 30 days, what do you guys think they do with the belt? Who do you put it on?

 

I'd actually make the stips for the The Shield v Evolution match be whomever gets the pinfall takes the strap. Would add a shit ton of intrigue and set up future angles.

 

Run #2 for I. Abeyance.

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It was never explicitly stated on WCW tv but it was always implied that the nWo through DiBiase were the ones who gave DDP money after he lost all of Kimberly's bingo winnings back to her and Johnny B. Badd. If that was the case, that's another boneheaded move by DiBiase b/c Page fought the nWo at every turn.

this idea had never crossed into my mind while watching it in '97. the "mysterious benefactor" was just dropped and never mentioned again.

come early '97, on a Saturday Night, Dusty Rhodes speculates that it was DiBiase that bankrolled him with future hopes of an nWo initiation. DDP then turns them down because he wasn't on the "ground floor".

as far as i'm concerned, it makes perfect sense, so that's what happened.

as far as terrible managers, how does Teddy Long stack up? sure, he had Doom in 1990, but by the Nitro era, he pretty much never left Worldwide. that can't be good for your pocketbook.

Dibiase being DDP's benefactor was one if those Yoko joining the Hart Foundation rumors for awhile.

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As far as babyfaces losing to heels, Batista had a shitty record against Edge in 2007. Edge was beating him clean, yet Batista was still getting title shots for some reason.

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This is infuriating because the logical move at this point is to have Sting, DDP, and Savage team up to destroy the whole nWo considering that they had Sting out there gathering guys to fight back. There was absolutely no. Logical. Reason. For Savage to join the nWo at this point. 

 

That whole year was Savage getting embarrassed by Ric Flair and the Horsemen (and Liz) followed by Savage getting embarrassed by Hogan and the nWo (and Liz) before a totally illogical heel turn. As a huge Savage fan, it was totally deflating at the time. 

 

Re: Teddy Long as a manager, except for Doom he was woefully ineffective as a manager. By the mid '90s, he was leading Ice Train and Joe Gomez to loss after loss on Nitro. Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan refused to manage a struggling Craig Pittman and pawned him off on Teddy Long, who ended up running Pittman's career into the ground.

 

Then in WWE, who was his best prospect? Rodney Mack? A past-his-prime D'Lo? Mark Henry before Henry got away from him and actually ended up becoming really good and winning a World Championship on his own? In retrospect, he should have hung on to his business relationship with Ron Simmons for dear life. 

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I wonder if Sonny Ono ever developed all those disposable cameras he used to take selfies with during his ring entrances. 

 

they used to post some of the pictures on the WCW website.

 

 

This is infuriating because the logical move at this point is to have Sting, DDP, and Savage team up to destroy the whole nWo considering that they had Sting out there gathering guys to fight back. There was absolutely no. Logical. Reason. For Savage to join the nWo at this point. 

 

That whole year was Savage getting embarrassed by Ric Flair and the Horsemen (and Liz) followed by Savage getting embarrassed by Hogan and the nWo (and Liz) before a totally illogical heel turn. As a huge Savage fan, it was totally deflating at the time. 

 

 

i agree that it was an asinine heel turn. but from my point of view, i was excited that he would be the one DOING the beatdowns instead of receiving them from there on.

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Teddy Long did manage Marcus Alexander Bagwell and Too Cold Scorpio to a glorious 2 week reign as WCW tag team champions.

 

AND win WCW manager of the year for 1993.

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I wonder if Sonny Ono ever developed all those disposable cameras he used to take selfies with during his ring entrances.

they used to post some of the pictures on the WCW website.

This is infuriating because the logical move at this point is to have Sting, DDP, and Savage team up to destroy the whole nWo considering that they had Sting out there gathering guys to fight back. There was absolutely no. Logical. Reason. For Savage to join the nWo at this point.

That whole year was Savage getting embarrassed by Ric Flair and the Horsemen (and Liz) followed by Savage getting embarrassed by Hogan and the nWo (and Liz) before a totally illogical heel turn. As a huge Savage fan, it was totally deflating at the time.

i agree that it was an asinine heel turn. but from my point of view, i was excited that he would be the one DOING the beatdowns instead of receiving them from there on.

It was a totally logical heel turn. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And join the hottest gang.
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I wonder if Sonny Ono ever developed all those disposable cameras he used to take selfies with during his ring entrances.

they used to post some of the pictures on the WCW website.

This is infuriating because the logical move at this point is to have Sting, DDP, and Savage team up to destroy the whole nWo considering that they had Sting out there gathering guys to fight back. There was absolutely no. Logical. Reason. For Savage to join the nWo at this point.

That whole year was Savage getting embarrassed by Ric Flair and the Horsemen (and Liz) followed by Savage getting embarrassed by Hogan and the nWo (and Liz) before a totally illogical heel turn. As a huge Savage fan, it was totally deflating at the time.

i agree that it was an asinine heel turn. but from my point of view, i was excited that he would be the one DOING the beatdowns instead of receiving them from there on.

It was a totally logical heel turn. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And join the hottest gang.

 

 

I have to disagree. If someone has destroyed your life, you usually don't look to try and join 'em. In fact, if Savage had only faked joining to help Sting and DDP by taking down the nWo from the inside, that would have made sense.

 

Instead, they took a guy with a clear motive for revenge that was well-positioned to be a person with clear motivation for sticking his neck out for WCW and just made him another nWo flunky. It didn't totally suck because Savage's out-of-nowhere turn on DDP ended up yielding some excellent matches, but otherwise it was senseless. Imagine Beatrix Kiddo re-joining the Deadly Viper Assasination Squad after they killed her fiance and took her child or Hamlet just agreeing to be a faithful son to Guinevere and Claudius in order to put himself in a better position to rule Denmark upon Claudius's death. Shitty, right? Exactly the same way I feel about Savage not teaming with Sting and DDP to tear through the nWo in 1997. 

 

 

Teddy Long did manage Marcus Alexander Bagwell and Too Cold Scorpio to a glorious 2 week reign as WCW tag team champions.

 

 

Yeah, but his utter lack of awareness on the outside totally led to their loss in the rematch against the Nasties. He was totally out-managed by Missy Hyatt. 

 

Scorp and Bagwell should have been multiple time champions, and Long got two weeks out of them. They might have been better off with Sunny as their manager. 

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Teddy Long did manage Marcus Alexander Bagwell and Too Cold Scorpio to a glorious 2 week reign as WCW tag team champions.

Yeah, but his utter lack of awareness on the outside totally led to their loss in the rematch against the Nasties. He was totally out-managed by Missy Hyatt.

Scorp and Bagwell should have been multiple time champions, and Long got two weeks out of them. They might have been better off with Sunny as their manager.

That's probably what scarred him into doing what he did as Smackdown! GM.

teddy_long_tag_team_match_8.jpg

For posterity.

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This is infuriating because the logical move at this point is to have Sting, DDP, and Savage team up to destroy the whole nWo considering that they had Sting out there gathering guys to fight back. There was absolutely no. Logical. Reason. For Savage to join the nWo at this point. 

 

My guess is they were afraid of watering down Sting's new gimmick. 

And Henry had a great run in 03 before he was injured. Him mauling Goldberg and laughing off the super kick was a great moment. 

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What's the most definitive example of a babyface thoroughly losing an extensive feud to the heel?

Ryder/Kane is the first that comes to mind, but sure there are better?

 

I don't think Ryback ever beat Punk or The Shield in any setting.

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Not sure if we have a Chikara thread anymore but they are coming back to NC-Gibsonville to be exact on 10/25/2014 and making their first trip into VA-Richmond on 10/26/2014

 

I say we have a VA-DVDVR meet up for the Richmond show!!

 

Ah.. so September is still free for a potential King of Trios.  Good good.

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Some baseball fans have a goal of visiting every MLB park.  Is there anything like that for wrestling?  Like has someone ever put together a list of the most famous wrestling venue or landmark in, let's say, each of the 50 states?

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Some baseball fans have a goal of visiting every MLB park.  Is there anything like that for wrestling?  Like has someone ever put together a list of the most famous wrestling venue or landmark in, let's say, each of the 50 states?

Here is my list.  

1. The Silverdome in Michigan

2. The ECW Arena in Philly

3. The Silverdome in New Orleans

4. The Chase in St. Louis

5. The Omni in Atlanta

6. The Hammerstein Ballroom in New York, also that little place called MSG

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Some baseball fans have a goal of visiting every MLB park.  Is there anything like that for wrestling?  Like has someone ever put together a list of the most famous wrestling venue or landmark in, let's say, each of the 50 states?

Here is my list.  

1. The Silverdome in Michigan

2. The ECW Arena in Philly

3. The Silverdome in New Orleans

4. The Chase in St. Louis

5. The Omni in Atlanta

6. The Hammerstein Ballroom in New York, also that little place called MSG

 

 

Domestically, I might add the Centerstage Studios where WCW Saturday Night was taped. The Rosemont Horizon/Allstate Arena, while a dump compared to other modern stadiums, has a great wrestling environment whenever big shows happen there.

 

An international list would have to include Arena Mexico and Arena Coliseo in Mexico City (CMLL's top two buildings), Sumo Hall, Korakuen Hall and the Tokyo Dome in Japan. 

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