October 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[zendragon]

 

[Eivion]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

If the Roman Reigns endless championship run is a Triple H booking, is it fair to say that Reigns' reign is basically a redux of the Triple H reign of terror, if Triple H had been authentically charismatic?

HHH has only been in charge for a little over a year now. The first two years were still when Vince was booking. Its still going on more because of Roman's success in drawing interest and a lack of reasonable people to drop it to until this year. I'd be shocked if it continues past next year's Wrestlemania.

[Just Dave]

5 hours ago, Eivion said:

HHH has only been in charge for a little over a year now. The first two years were still when Vince was booking. Its still going on more because of Roman's success in drawing interest and a lack of reasonable people to drop it to until this year. I'd be shocked if it continues past next year's Wrestlemania.

That’s what we were saying this time a year ago. This shit is beyond stale. Thank god hhh couldn’t bring back ALL his toys from “ring of hunter” or it would be even more boring and repetitive…

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Just Dave said:

That’s what we were saying this time a year ago. This shit is beyond stale. Thank god hhh couldn’t bring back ALL his toys from “ring of hunter” or it would be even more boring and repetitive…

I didn't think Cody would win this year. 

[Technico Support]

14 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

Discussion is fragmented in multiple threads across the board so maybe I missed it but is nobody talking about Ari Emanuel allegedly removing Vince from the creative process?  Seems like a pretty big deal.  I expected him to be a figurehead sooner than later but this is happening pretty quick

It's amazing.  To summarize:

1. Vince is removed from power because he's a rapist
2. Vince muscles his way back in by holding any potential sale hostage
3. Vince decides to sell to Endeavor because Ari promises to let him stay in creative
4. A month after the ink is dry, Vince is removed from creative

It's awesome that the "I'll owe you one, pal" guy, who built a career on empty promises, ends his career on someone else's empty promise.  The "secure the bag" crowd will say "at least he got paid," but that wasn't what Vince wanted.  He specifically maneuvered for his position in creative and he got out-carnied.  Reminds me of Kanye getting fucked over by Nike.  That's what happens when "rich" gets into a showdown with "wealthy."  It feels good to see it.  Not that I'm one to root for any corporation or billionaire.  But in this specific case, where a detestable small time carny finally got his comeuppance, I'm cool with it.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Technico Support

[Technico Support]

Just re-reading this, I'm still smiling and shaking my head.  Vince spent his whole career trying to portray himself as something bigger and more legitimate than what he actually was.  He wasn't a wrestling promoter.  He was a producer of entertainment.  He wasn't a carny who ran a successful carny small business, who was then able to go public and get even bigger.  He was a respectable big businessman who should have been looked at the same as we view any other CEO.  And then he went head to head with the real deal and got treated like a chump in one month.

[Octopus]

Stringer Bell in the Wire

[FourPostMassacre]

13 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Just re-reading this, I'm still smiling and shaking my head.  Vince spent his whole career trying to portray himself as something bigger and more legitimate than what he actually was.  He wasn't a wrestling promoter.  He was a producer of entertainment.  He wasn't a carny who ran a successful carny small business, who was then able to go public and get even bigger.  He was a respectable big businessman who should have been looked at the same as we view any other CEO.  And then he went head to head with the real deal and got treated like a chump in one month.

Wasn’t he just bragging about how he wasn’t going anywhere and bringing up how long his mom lived? 
 

So nice to see this dirt bag finally served some humble pie. 

[Godfrey]

Vince spent so long exploiting and cheating everyone in his life he couldn't see it when it was happening to him. If Vince ends his days back in a trailer park I would not shed not a tear

[Elsalvajeloco]

17 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Vince spent so long exploiting and cheating everyone in his life he couldn't see it when it was happening to him. If Vince ends his days back in a trailer park I would not shed not a tear

"For trailer park trash you are, and to trailer park trash you shall return." - Genesis 3:16

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

It's amazing.  To summarize:

1. Vince is removed from power because he's a rapist
2. Vince muscles his way back in by holding any potential sale hostage
3. Vince decides to sell to Endeavor because Ari promises to let him stay in creative
4. A month after the ink is dry, Vince is removed from creative

A few things:

1. He was removed from power because his creepy old man stuff/mid-life crisis took money from the company, not being a rapist.
2. The talk of selling didn't become serious as an idea until Vince muscled his way back. In hindsight its seems clear Vince wanted sell while others didn't.
3. Vince wanted to stay in general power, not necessarily creative. As I said before, even after returning it was still clear he left HHH mostly in charge creative wise as the pacing and structure of shows didn't change.

Too many are equating Vince out of creative to Vince being gone which is just not same thing. I'd wait to celebrate when he actually "retires.". Then his direct influence is truly gone. Right now he hasn't really been outdone so much as potentially told to focus on his actual job. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I hope Vince quits, gives Billy Corgan $1500 for the NWA, and gets em an hour Tuesday nights on Paramount - just to see what the hell something like that would even look like.

[Teflon Turtle]

Yeah...a quick Google search has Vince's net worth at somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.6 billion. Unless he loses literally every penny overnight, him being removed from a creative role in WWE remains a "but the bad guy still won" story.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Teflon Turtle

[(BP)]

TKO has seemingly been holding the knives out towards Vince the entire time. They referred to him as a liability in filings. I’m pretty certain he’s the only major stockholder whose shares were set up in a manner where he can just sell and walk away immediately. Maybe he was optimistic about maintaining some creative input, but I think his primary focus for the past couple of years has been becoming wealthy enough to insulate himself from ever being held accountable for anything he’s ever done.

I get taking some joy in this stuff, but the real stake in the heart was last year when the WSJ story broke. That’s when things changed irrevocably and his options became much narrower. 

[The Natural]

Gunther's WWE Intercontinental Championship reign is not only one of the best reigns in wrestling history, it's one of the most important as he has restored prestige to the Intercontinental Championship ever alongside Triple H. Kudos to both making the belt relevant again. Gunther deservedly beat the Honky Tonk Man's 454 days reign to become the longest reigning Intercontinental Champion ever. Gunther is approaching 500 days.

Edited October 17, 2023 by The Natural

[zendragon]

[DJ Hero Morganti]

His facial hair looked 'shopped at first glance

[Cobra Commander]

Jerry Lawler looking like Bruce Dern's ghost is possessing him, JR must be horrified

[zendragon]

All of us

[Ramo2653]

4 hours ago, Eivion said:

A few things:

1. He was removed from power because his creepy old man stuff/mid-life crisis took money from the company, not being a rapist.
2. The talk of selling didn't become serious as an idea until Vince muscled his way back. In hindsight its seems clear Vince wanted sell while others didn't.
3. Vince wanted to stay in general power, not necessarily creative. As I said before, even after returning it was still clear he left HHH mostly in charge creative wise as the pacing and structure of shows didn't change.

Too many are equating Vince out of creative to Vince being gone which is just not same thing. I'd wait to celebrate when he actually "retires.". Then his direct influence is truly gone. Right now he hasn't really been outdone so much as potentially told to focus on his actual job. 

This. It's more about Ari telling Vince "hey, focus on these rights deals for Raw and NXT and stop screwing around with creative" since Vince's job is to manage the big corporate stuff like that and not get caught up in the week to week stories. With that, it gives HHH the green light to go and keep doing his thing (which will still have Vince's finger prints because that's who he learned from). Now if the deals for Raw and NXT are good? Then Vince might get more involved with creative. If the deals aren't as good based on projections? Vince might be on the hot seat forreal. 

[Ace]

That's Nick Khan and Endeavor's job. Not Vince's.

 

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, Ramo2653 said:

This. It's more about Ari telling Vince "hey, focus on these rights deals for Raw and NXT and stop screwing around with creative" since Vince's job is to manage the big corporate stuff like that and not get caught up in the week to week stories. With that, it gives HHH the green light to go and keep doing his thing (which will still have Vince's finger prints because that's who he learned from). Now if the deals for Raw and NXT are good? Then Vince might get more involved with creative. If the deals aren't as good based on projections? Vince might be on the hot seat forreal. 

There's still enough of a difference between a HHH run product and a Vince run product to most people. Alot of people forget the time-line of the Bloodline angle and give HHH the credit for it even though it started long before Vinces stuff hit the fan. It's a clear difference in who Vince sees something in and HHH sees something in based on who they hire, give TV time to and release. If Vince never left we probably wouldn't have this Classic IC title run from Walter right now. I get that there's still Vinces fingerprints in Hunters booking. Sure some of that may be because that's who he's learned from but I'm sure alot of that is by design to for Vince to feel like he has some involvement. Unless you just completely anti WWE as far as what you like in wrestling, you wouldn't feel like this is a Vince run show. Until Kevin Dunn is gone, the presentation is going to be what it aways has been. It's a big enough change when Hunter is in charge based on who he hires and gives time to and not micromanaging every aspect of everyone's TV time. If Hunter believed that he'd be the longterm head of Creative then he probably would have gotten rid of Dunn if he really isn't a fan of his like everyone theorizes

[Just Dave]

16 hours ago, The Natural said:

Gunther's WWE Intercontinental Championship reign is not only one of the best reigns in wrestling history, it's one of the most important as he has restored prestige to the Intercontinental Championship ever alongside Triple H. Kudos to both making the belt relevant again. Gunther deservedly beat the Honky Tonk Man's 454 days reign to become the longest reigning Intercontinental Champion ever. Gunther is approaching 500 days.

I guess I just differ in my fundamental desire for what a midcard title is and should be, because my first thought when I read this was; "so?" Like, is that what the IC Title is supposed to be? I've always thought that if every title were equally as prestigious as every other, there's no point in challenging for one over the other. Gunther is awesome because he's awesome. He didn't need a midcard title to legitimize him. Idk, maybe I just don't have the sentimental attachment to that title that some others do. Like, not every title needs to be prestigious. 

[The Natural]

8 minutes ago, Just Dave said:

I guess I just differ in my fundamental desire for what a midcard title is and should be, because my first thought when I read this was; "so?" Like, is that what the IC Title is supposed to be? I've always thought that if every title were equally as prestigious as every other, there's no point in challenging for one over the other. Gunther is awesome because he's awesome. He didn't need a midcard title to legitimize him. Idk, maybe I just don't have the sentimental attachment to that title that some others do. Like, not every title needs to be prestigious. 

The belt needed building back up again, lost a lot of lusture. Some belts should mean more than others especially the world title, secondary championship and tag team titles.

Edited October 18, 2023 by The Natural

[FourPostMassacre]

16 hours ago, Ramo2653 said:

This. It's more about Ari telling Vince "hey, focus on these rights deals for Raw and NXT and stop screwing around with creative" since Vince's job is to manage the big corporate stuff like that and not get caught up in the week to week stories. With that, it gives HHH the green light to go and keep doing his thing (which will still have Vince's finger prints because that's who he learned from). Now if the deals for Raw and NXT are good? Then Vince might get more involved with creative. If the deals aren't as good based on projections? Vince might be on the hot seat forreal. 

Yea no. We’re talking about the guy who only took 20 minute power naps his whole life because he was so entrenched in his position that up until the moment they completely cut him off was still trying to be in charge of creative. 
 

I know Vince has endeared himself to some people here with his weird behavior or onscreen personality over the years but he’s a garbage human being.
 

Quoting these kind of posts and picking them apart just makes some of y’all look like you’re defending his actions and not trying to “engage in healthy debate” like we always only ever do in the monthly thread right!?