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AEW - APR 2022


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12 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Even from a WWE perspective thst makes zero sense. FTR are too short, work too smart, not strong enough, and are too much of a tag team. You can't split them up as then you'd have 2 wasted salaries sitting in catering.

It's more of a "we want them just so no one else can" thing.

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Just now, Phantom Lord said:

It's more of a "we want them just so no one else can" thing.

And/or make your competition "that other promotion" spend more money and up the price for their other talent renewing.

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10 minutes ago, JLowe said:

And/or make your competition "that other promotion" spend more money and up the price for their other talent renewing.

Well it wouldn't be that much more if they have a renewal option built in, depending on what was negotiated. AEW would be stupid not to exercise it at this point. They already turned over one of their hottest, top draws over to WWE, and that was a massive blunder.

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The Cody thing is going well enough thus far that I really think they'd like to replicate that buzz with further jumps. Not sure FTR are interested or if they could be convinced they'd be featured satisfactorily, but if WWE can drive up how much the talent is earning than it's all good. 

I'd be curious to know of the people who've made the jump to AEW, which ones WWE higher-ups feel they were proven wrong by and might want back. Not people they wanted to keep like Bryan and Mox, but further down the card people who they cut.

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FTR are still a tag team. In WWE, there's a handful of matches they could have before Vince gets bored of them and they are back to main event or shaving each other's backs. WWE doesn't view tag teams hot acts worth pushing or as main event worthy.

 

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I will always appreciate Dave’s exhaustive work and dedication to pro wrestling, but it’s not debatable that his tastes shaped a view of what made good wrestling by the early internet wrestling community that absolutely sucked and led to the Johnny Kickpads generation.  Shame on you Dave.

Shit, appreciation for Sid / Mark Henry / Bunkhouse Buck / Dusty Rhodes is what drove a lot of us to DVDVR in the first place. Finally, sanity. 

Edited by For Great Justice
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Just to clarify the FTR thing - the report is just "there is internal discussion in the WWE about bringing FTR back"

Not "They made them a billion dollar offer" etc...

I feel very comfortable in saying that similar conversations will be made about every name in AEW except Moxley

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3 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Just to clarify the FTR thing - the report is just "there is internal discussion in the WWE about bringing FTR back"

Not "They made them a billion dollar offer" etc...

I feel very comfortable in saying that similar conversations will be made about every name in AEW except Moxley

Why not Jon Moxley?

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1 minute ago, TheVileOne said:

Why not Jon Moxley?

Because he has made it quite clear he will never work for that company again

I mean granted, Vince probably thinks he can convince anyone but it would probably take a decade before Mox agreed to think about stepping foot in a WWE ring again so others in the front office should, theoretically, say "let's not waste our breathe"

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3 hours ago, supremebve said:

I feel like he has specific tastes more than bad taste,  but he also has a general anti-WWF/E bias. I can't talk, because I generally have the same bias, but there have been plenty of great WWE matches that don't seem to get credit. I like 2010s NJPW, but 48 five star matches is kind of insane. I think the biggest problem I have is that he rates the Bret/Owen cage match higher than the Wrestlemania X match. 

You know what's even more insane is that 8 of those matches were from 2010-2015. The remaining FORTY matches came from the next 4 year stretch of 2016-2019 with 29 of them coming between 2018 and 2019. 16 in 2018 and 13 in 2019. 

 

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Meltzer's not really a journalist as such in the classical sense, he's a mouthpiece for people who are kind to him or do him favours or leak him information. He's on video saying as much: "If you're not going to be nice to me, I'm not the kind of guy who is going to be nice to you". Hence Austin/Rock  at X-7 doesn't have 5* (or any of the Smackdown 6, for that matter for those who prize the technical stuff as mentioned further up thread), and Jungle Boy/Luchasaurus/Christian Cage vs. Adam Cole/Nick Jackson/Matt Jackson does have 5*. That understood, its not hard to rationalise as a matter of 'taste', or anything else at all really.

Edited by A_K
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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Well it wouldn't be that much more if they have a renewal option built in, depending on what was negotiated. AEW would be stupid not to exercise it at this point. They already turned over one of their hottest, top draws over to WWE, and that was a massive blunder.

I keep seeing you refer to letting Cody go as a “massive blunder”. How so? 
 

You say “hottest”, but he and Brandi were getting go away heat at the end there. 
 

I’m genuinely interested in hearing your reasoning behind these claims. 

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40 minutes ago, Log said:

I keep seeing you refer to letting Cody go as a “massive blunder”. How so? 
 

You say “hottest”, but he and Brandi were getting go away heat at the end there. 
 

I’m genuinely interested in hearing your reasoning behind these claims. 

He's secretly the FSW to Cody's Punk.

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Because he has made it quite clear he will never work for that company again

I mean granted, Vince probably thinks he can convince anyone but it would probably take a decade before Mox agreed to think about stepping foot in a WWE ring again so others in the front office should, theoretically, say "let's not waste our breathe"

 

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1 hour ago, Log said:

I keep seeing you refer to letting Cody go as a “massive blunder”. How so? 
 

You say “hottest”, but he and Brandi were getting go away heat at the end there. 
 

I’m genuinely interested in hearing your reasoning behind these claims. 

Cody was one of AEW's top draws when he left, and AEW handed him to WWE on a silver platter. That's promotional malpractice, as Luke Thomas would say.

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Because he has made it quite clear he will never work for that company again

I mean granted, Vince probably thinks he can convince anyone but it would probably take a decade before Mox agreed to think about stepping foot in a WWE ring again so others in the front office should, theoretically, say "let's not waste our breathe"

on one hand, if even Bret eventually came back after the screwjob then theoretically nothing/no one still living should be considered impossible.

But Moxley would seem to be at or near the CM Punk level of Very Very Very Unlikely

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4 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

But Moxley would seem to be at or near the CM Punk level of Very Very Very Unlikely

There are people that think Punk already returned, because he was doing the WWE Backstage gig.

Bottom line is - if you believe the guy - Cody wanted, and felt like it was time, to go back to WWE. AEW didn't lose him, he made a decision, and from hearing him talk about it, nothing would have changed his mind. Cody's thing was definitely a McIntyre situation, where the time away made him a much bigger deal than he ever was before, except it's x100 in this instance since Cody was a co-founder of the clear #2 company in the US (now). He probably recognized that, knew his deal was up, and figured he could go back and be treated like the big deal he's always wanted and hadn't got in AEW since late 2019ish.

There are others on the roster that I can see going back for various reasons, like Jericho or Danielson, but people like Punk and Mox? Some are just happier doing things their own way because they're creative (and also a bloodthirsty wrestler), some feel like the company almost killed them and don't trust the people currently in charge or (even just working there).

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Cody was one of AEW's top draws when he left, and AEW handed him to WWE on a silver platter. That's promotional malpractice, as Luke Thomas would say.

By what metric was he a top draw? 
 

What has ratings/attendance looked like since he left vs before? 

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Should we just go ahead and give Fightful the scoop on all the other names at the top of AEW's roster that WWE would no doubt want or want back?  How long before 'WWE is interested in Hangman Adam Page'?  

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9 hours ago, supremebve said:

I feel like he has specific tastes more than bad taste,  but he also has a general anti-WWF/E bias. I can't talk, because I generally have the same bias, but there have been plenty of great WWE matches that don't seem to get credit. I like 2010s NJPW, but 48 five star matches is kind of insane. I think the biggest problem I have is that he rates the Bret/Owen cage match higher than the Wrestlemania X match. 

I think the reason for that is the brilliance of both guys in pulling off an incredible cage match with blood and violence off limits (which is pretty much the entire point of a grudge match in a cage) which made what they did so impressive.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

To delve even further into this because I was interested, between 2000-2009 big Dave only gave SEVEN matches across the entire globe a 5 star rating.  3 of those came from Ring of Honor, 2 from NOAH, 1 from NJPW, and 1 from TNA - which kind of surprises me considering the SmackDown Six existed during this time period. You're telling me that no combination of those guys, or even a Benoit/Jericho/Angle trio was good enough to pump out a 5 star match?! I can understand 2004-2009 as I feel that's when the in-ring product took it's biggest hit, but from 2000-2003, I'm surprised not ONE match could hit that. FFS, Angle and Benoit by those standards never had a 5 star match which - I just don't believe (HBK WM21?) and Jericho's first one wouldn't come til his showdown with Omega in NJPW.

5 Star Matches by Decades (Per Dave Meltzer)
1980s: 23
AJPW: 6, WCW: 5, JCP: 4, AJW: 3, NJPW: 2, CWF: 2, UWF: 1, CWF: 1

1990s: 64
AJPW: 29, AJW: 16, NJPW: 6, WWF: 4, AAA: 3, WCW: 2, RINGS: 1, ECW: 1, Michinoku Pro: 1

2000s: 7
RoH: 3, NOAH: 2, TNA: 1, NJPW: 1

2010s: 65
NJPW: 48, WWE/NXT: 6, PWG: 5, AEW: 2, WWE: 1, WWE/NXT UK: 1, OTT: 1, La Triple W: 1

2020s: 37
AEW: 11, NJPW: 19, RPW: 2, WWE/NXT UK: 2, AAA: 1, NOAH: 1, ROH: 1, Stardom: 1

I think my most fascinating takeaway from this is that only ONE match in the entire HISTORY of the WWE has been given 5 stars that WASN'T a gimmick match and that was CM Punk/John Cena from MitB 2011. All four matches from the 90's were gimmicked matches (Bret/Owen in a cage, HBK/Razor ladder, HBK/Taker HiaC, Austin/Bret I Quit). 

Thank you for this.

10 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Off the top of my head some WWE matches that are *****:

Shield vs. Wyatt’s, Elimination Chamber.

The rematch on Raw.

Revival vs. DIY, 2 out of 3 falls (Best tag match of the decade)

Sami vs. Neville (Perfect long-term storytelling with an awesome Empire Strikes Back ending with KO showing his true colors)

Sasha vs. Bayley I and II (Flawlessly executed and historically important) 

Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield (Perfect tag match and feud)

Charlotte Flair vs. Sasha in whatever the gimmick match was where Sasha had the Banks Statement in the crowd and Charlotte did some insane flip off the announcer’s perch

Santino/Emma vs. Fandango/Summer Rae (Best comedy match ever)

I'll do the same decade as @Greggulator. You'll see some show on mine also. ***** matches:

Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena. SummerSlam 2013.

The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield. Elimination Chamber 2014.

John Cena vs. CM Punk. Money in the Bank 2011.

Andrade Almas vs. Johnny Gargano. NXT TakeOver Philadelphia.

The Revival vs. #DIY. NXT TakeOver: Toronto. Best two on two tag of the decade. Both teams best matches.

Sasha Banks vs. Bayley. NXT TakeOver Brooklyn.

Bayley vs. Sasha Banks. NXT TakeOver Respect. The best of the two Banks/Bayley bouts.

John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar. Extreme Rules 2012.

Daniel Bryan vs. AJ Styles. TLC 2018.

Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn. NXT TakeOver R-Evolution.

WALTER vs. Tyler Bate. NXT UK TakeOver Cardiff.

Edited by The Natural
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7 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Why not Jon Moxley?

 

7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Because he has made it quite clear he will never work for that company again

I mean granted, Vince probably thinks he can convince anyone but it would probably take a decade before Mox agreed to think about stepping foot in a WWE ring again so others in the front office should, theoretically, say "let's not waste our breathe"

I can't ever see Jon Moxley and CM Punk going back to WWE.

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