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Grand Slam - 9/22/2021


The Natural
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13 hours ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

How? 

The ratings and numbers peaked during these segments. The audience didn't know this match was opening the show. When you have a match like this you are not conditioned for it to go on first. So by basically putting your main event on first you are subliminally telling your audience there is no reason to keep tuning in after the match is over.

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Outside perspective as this is only my second time watching a complete AEW show. That stadium looked great and I liked the stage. 

I honestly think that Danielson vs Omega started out strong, but it declined quite a lot, especially if it's the first match in a series of matches it was too much, imo. The finish felt flat to me and almost as if they missed their cue. I really wished Danielson would love wrestling just a little bit less, I like him a lot and I don't want to see him get paralyzed. That buckle bomb by Omega was reckless shit. 

Punk has always been a good promo. I believe him. That's more than I can say about almost all of today's wrestlers. 

MJF is really good. Pillman needs experience. If a Babyface has to tap, the way they did it here was the right way. 

Black vs Cody was ok until the finish where it fell apart. Oh, and that Brandi moment, what was that about? Cody was Homelander, right? Black winning seemed the right move, but how he got the win was weird. Especially with Arn bumping and lumbering around on the apron forever. 

FTR vs Sting and Allin was as good as I thought it could be which may sound like a backhanded compliment, but I think everyone involved looked competent. I think the rollup after Dax hit the chair would have been a better finish, but this way Darby contributed. 

Didn't like what I saw of Baker vs Soho. Both wrestlers have good charisma, but the match felt off. Finish stretch was bad imo. 

Even with Punk and Bryan, this is not for me. 

Having said that and probably coming across very critical, I can see why some wrestling fans like this. AEW has lots of energy that feels positive. Good for them and those who enjoy this. 

 

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16 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

The ratings and numbers peaked during these segments. The audience didn't know this match was opening the show. When you have a match like this you are not conditioned for it to go on first. So by basically putting your main event on first you are subliminally telling your audience there is no reason to keep tuning in after the match is over.

Counterpoint: Ratings usually decline throughout the show anyway, so why not put your "prestige" match on when the most people will see it?

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7 minutes ago, Dog said:

Counterpoint: Ratings usually decline throughout the show anyway, so why not put your "prestige" match on when the most people will see it?

They didn't know it was going to kick off the show. Secondly, why not always put the main event or biggest match on first then for the weekly TV events?

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11 minutes ago, Dog said:

Counterpoint: Ratings usually decline throughout the show anyway, so why not put your "prestige" match on when the most people will see it?

It was the only really obvious "wrong call" of the night. I feel like the hot opener was a lot more strategically sensible in the Wednesday Night Wars days, and I understand the importance of putting on a big match first sometimes. But it DID burn out the crowd, and it DID create a ratings curve that was less than ideal. I'll hear the argument that the title match should have went on last, but I think opening with FTR vs. Bug Dad & Bone Kid would have worked out better.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

I've the same matches:

7. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Dominion 2017. Yeah, I think I'm the only person who thinks it's the worst of the four Okada/Omega matches.

6. Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 13. *****.

5. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW G1 Climax 27. *****.

4. Kenny Omega/Adam Page vs. The Young Bucks. AEW Revolution 2020. *****.

3. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Dynamite Grand Slam, 22nd September 2021. *****.

2. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11. *****.

1. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Dominion 2018. *****.

I think this list is missing a Naito match, going from memory I remember thinking the 2017 G1 final between them was arguably the greatest match I had ever seen.

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7 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

This is why I don't like the snowflake system. Danielson has never had a five star match before this? How is that even possible? 

Meltzer used to be a lot more restrained when giving those out in the 2000s when Bryan was in ROH. He went snowflake cray cray in the past ten years.

Just had a look:

Only seven matches got 5* in the 2000s, but SIXTY FIVE did in the 2010s and 27 already in the last 2 years.

 

Edited by eikerir
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2 minutes ago, eikerir said:

Meltzer used to be a lot more restrained when giving those out in the 2000s when Bryan was in ROH. He went snowflake cray cray in the past ten years.

I think conceptually, a five star system is fine. Breaking it is stupider. Then Meltzer proceeds to shit on matches and then later rate them 4 1/2 snowflakes because the crowd loved it when he rated The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania 3 snowflakes. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

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16 minutes ago, eikerir said:

I think this list is missing a Naito match, going from memory I remember thinking the 2017 G1 final between them was arguably the greatest match I had ever seen.

Oooh you're right that match was incredible.

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8 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Coach Arn needs to keep this shit in the locker room. Unacceptable. 

 

Listened to some of this interview - it was so kayfabe. Interesting to watch Arn and Tony use various venues including podcasts to advanced AEW storylines.  Old school working. 

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I agree that Dave's ratings are a bit silly but wrestling wasn't very good from about 2006-2010, so I can see why there weren't that many 5 star matches during that period.

Edit: but to lean back towards them being silly, he gave Kensuke vs. Nagata 4 stars. That match was damn near perfection (wrong guy went over, brother). 

I'd say the Danielson match probably slots in around the 10-20 range for me in Kenny's list, probably in the 15-20 range. 

Edited by Jiji
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5 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

See, I thought they put it on first so it wouldn't telegraph the ending. If the match starts at 9:28 or 9:30 - you know damn well it's going the distance.

Fun fact about the Danielson/Omega match, I went back and timed it. Was exactly 30:00 on the button. I love how AEW doesn't "titan time" anything. 100% legit.

That's how we did it for the first Joe/Punk match in ROH at World Title Classic. Whose watch did I borrow? Danielson's.

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When it comes to the best critical scale, I defer to Roger Ebert, who hated the star rating system that the Sun Times saddled him with. I think this works even better for wrestling than it does for movies. 
08-D00-AFF-EE6-B-4-FAA-B618-D3-E65-CB95-

 

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One thing AEW does that drives me nuts, that is also something I HATE that WWE does, is have wrestlers hit these amazing crazy moves out of nowhere that haven't been done before, has the crowd whipped into a frenzy and then it's a two-count because the matches almost always have to end on a finishing move. Example being the Spears-Sammy match with the double-springboard into the top-rope stunner: the crowd pops for the dual-springboard, then for the middle finger, then even bigger for the move itself. The match should end there, but instead they meander around for a while, the crowd cools off, then Sammy hits his finisher for the win. That's exactly how I feel about Britt-Soho, there's some stuff, there's the big top rope spot, they meander around in the distraction finish after the crowd has died.

Man, that Cody-Black match was a mess. Crowd turns on Cody from the get-go (Big pop for the lights going out, thinking they're getting some kind of debut, only for it to be the Cody entrance which seemed to tick everyone off). Then the crowd boos Cody mercilessly, including every time it looks like he's going to win, and Cody is noticeably affected by it. Then the announcers hype up about how intimidating Black is, only for Brandi to no-sell said intimidation, roll into the ring and flip off Black. Then you have Arn getting on the wrong side of the ring, trying to manuever around the post and fall off the apron, awkwardly get back up and bump into Cody, the weird spat with Cody and Arn, Cody intentionally/accidentally hitting the ref, and a mist spot (which Black has never used before, right?) to get the win. I assume some of this will make sense as we move into a Cody heel turn (I have to think with the crowd turning on him, that's where this is headed) but it was just dreadful.

And, look, I love Arn Anderson but he has been an absolute disaster as a manager/coach. He just seems to be in the way or distracting or confused by what is going on most of the time. When he came in as Cody's manager, it was one of those things where you go "Arn as a manager makes so much sense, why didn't someone do this beforehand?" and then you watch him as a manager and go "Oh that's why!" Same thing with Arn as a commentator for WWEWCW: "Why didn't someone do this sooner?!" Then you hear him tell quiet, almost inaudible stories and struggle to keep up with the action and go "Oh that's why!"

I think Miro's line about his God and his wife being the the ones who control his body "One demands pain, the other pleasure" was the line of the night.

Also, was I hearing things or did Tony say Omega was about to hit the "One-Legged Angel" in that first match? I hope it's a tease for the debut of Zack Gowen!

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I really think they just shouldn't have run Bryan/Kenny on this show. It was a great match even with the obvious time limit draw finish (REGAL-PLEX), but there's no way they wouldn't have had just as much of a rating and just as hot of a crowd by just adding these two to the Cole/Bucks vs. JE/Christian match. On top of that, you could have Bryan pin one of the Bucks and everyone's happy.

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

They didn't know it was going to kick off the show. Secondly, why not always put the main event or biggest match on first then for the weekly TV events?

AEW pretty much always puts on a big match that could be a main event on first. 

The additional advantages of it going on first are that it meant less commercial breaks during it and there was no danger of guys missing there time cues (as sometimes happens in AEW) and Omega and Bryan having to condense their time limit draw match as could have happened if it was the main event.

Also, it wasn’t a title match and there was a title match on the card, so I personally like the title matches being the main event. 

 

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1 hour ago, caley said:

One thing AEW does that drives me nuts, that is also something I HATE that WWE does, is have wrestlers hit these amazing crazy moves out of nowhere that haven't been done before, has the crowd whipped into a frenzy and then it's a two-count because the matches almost always have to end on a finishing move. Example being the Spears-Sammy match with the double-springboard into the top-rope stunner: the crowd pops for the dual-springboard, then for the middle finger, then even bigger for the move itself. The match should end there, but instead they meander around for a while, the crowd cools off, then Sammy hits his finisher for the win. That's exactly how I feel about Britt-Soho, there's some stuff, there's the big top rope spot, they meander around in the distraction finish after the crowd has died.

Man, that Cody-Black match was a mess. Crowd turns on Cody from the get-go (Big pop for the lights going out, thinking they're getting some kind of debut, only for it to be the Cody entrance which seemed to tick everyone off). Then the crowd boos Cody mercilessly, including every time it looks like he's going to win, and Cody is noticeably affected by it. Then the announcers hype up about how intimidating Black is, only for Brandi to no-sell said intimidation, roll into the ring and flip off Black. Then you have Arn getting on the wrong side of the ring, trying to manuever around the post and fall off the apron, awkwardly get back up and bump into Cody, the weird spat with Cody and Arn, Cody intentionally/accidentally hitting the ref, and a mist spot (which Black has never used before, right?) to get the win. I assume some of this will make sense as we move into a Cody heel turn (I have to think with the crowd turning on him, that's where this is headed) but it was just dreadful.

 

Why would the crowd have been expecting a surprise entrance for the advertised Cody Black match when Cody should have been coming out?

I don’t think that’s why he was booed like that. I think he was booed like that because the AEW crowd loves Malakai Black and most of them thought Cody was returning to get his win back from him on a big stage.

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8 hours ago, Technico Support said:

That reminds me of the first (or one of the first) Joey Janela PWG appearance.  He did a MONSTEROUS front flip senton to the apron as his opponent got out of the way.  Just a GROSS thud, and then he slid off the apron to the floor.  Chuck, on commentary, said something like "don't even worry about counting him out because that man is DEAD!"

Believe it or not, this was apparently a REGULAR SPOT that Janela was doing at the time. He did it at a Beyond Wrestling show vs Matt Riddle, and I was standing right by that part of the ring (Beyond doesn't generally have guard rails or chairs, people can be right up to the apron). You could FEEL the impact of his body in your feet through the floor - it was DISGUSTING. Everybody in that immediate area looked just shell-shocked, even the regular camera operator for the company. 

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