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AEW - AUG 2021


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2 hours ago, Casey said:

Tag ropes? Out after 5 seconds? What is this, 1986?

For the record, they established early on that the rule in AEW is that you have ten seconds to get out after the tag, not five.

Of course, having established a rule they really should stick to it.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

I don't think I've ever cared about how a referee officiates a match.

It also doesn't help when people like FTR are bringing attention to it on social media and whatnot. This kind of tag team wrestling is that indie, PWG style that AEW's division's style is obviously molded after. Expecting any different is just weird to me. Tag ropes? Out after 5 seconds? What is this, 1986?

1986 had bigger pops. Maybe... Just maybe... They were doing something right. 

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19 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Unless I've missed something super-recent, Angle said he turned down an offer from them for a final run, he's too beat up. Nothing we haven't heard a million times from a million workers, so grain of salt as always. That said, PIT would certainly be the place to do it, and I see nothing that would preclude him from being a coach other than $$$

Angle said recently he's needed neck surgery for 15 years, is in a lot of pain from neck problems, and has issues like numbness and partial paralysis in his arms and legs stemming from the same neck issue.

But he's a former wrestler, so I'll be surprised if he doesn't show up in Pgh and at least take bumps.  Iron Man tables match with Omega, anyone?

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8 hours ago, Jiji said:

Knox will always have a place in my heart for the Free Willy tope to the Bucks in that classic three way tag ladder match in PWG. And getting killed by Super Dragon when Dragon came back to join Mt Rushmore. I admit he's had some tough spells but AEW is ECW-light in how they treat their officials. NJPW the same. JR needs to get over this and stop calling undue attention to it. It's not changing so shut the fuck up.

Same here.  I've been watching PWG since 2010 and will always have a soft spot for Knox.  I don't understand the criticism of him, but then again, I don't watch the refs too hard.  I think some people getting caught up in the commentary and are working themselves into a shoot here.  As you said, Ross isn't helping and I really hate when he suddenly tries to create storylines on commentary.  Unless AEW is actually working some Danny Davis gimmick and not just on BTE, he needs to quit that shit.

Also, Knox loves wrestling.  He was low key very good whenever filling in on commentary on PWG and the dude cried when the Bucks gave him a contract because, after a decade plus toiling the indies, he could finally quit his day job.

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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Same here.  I've been watching PWG since 2010 and will always have a soft spot for Knox.  I don't understand the criticism of him, but then again, I don't watch the refs too hard.  I think some people getting caught up in the commentary and are working themselves into a shoot here.  As you said, Ross isn't helping and I really hate when he suddenly tries to create storylines on commentary.  Unless AEW is actually working some Danny Davis gimmick and not just on BTE, he needs to quit that shit.

Also, Knox loves wrestling.  He was low key very good whenever filling in on commentary on PWG and the dude cried when the Bucks gave him a contract because, after a decade plus toiling the indies, he could finally quit his day job.

Knox is a good follow in Instagram.  Posts a lot of his own photos from 80's punk shows and wrestling in So Cal.  

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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Same here.  I've been watching PWG since 2010 and will always have a soft spot for Knox.  I don't understand the criticism of him, but then again, I don't watch the refs too hard.  I think some people getting caught up in the commentary and are working themselves into a shoot here.  As you said, Ross isn't helping and I really hate when he suddenly tries to create storylines on commentary.  Unless AEW is actually working some Danny Davis gimmick and not just on BTE, he needs to quit that shit.

Also, Knox loves wrestling.  He was low key very good whenever filling in on commentary on PWG and the dude cried when the Bucks gave him a contract because, after a decade plus toiling the indies, he could finally quit his day job.

I agree on the JR needs to stop calling attention to problems.  No matter what they are.  But even more so I don’t understand (other than speculation) why TKhan hasn’t instructed him to fucking cool it.

Rick Knox is very poor at acting ‘being distracted’ and seems to sometimes miss his cues completely.  He also, too often, fails to show any discernment towards blatant rule breaking spots.  Small details but they go a long way in establishing credibility.  

Id love to see Knox go heel and then get moved full time to his backstage role.  I dream of the same fate minus a heel turn for Bryce Remsburg.

I’m not a Bully Raymond fan, but was sad to hear his fair inquiry, on busted open, concerning the poor officiating met with resistance to even a conversation by Coach Tony.  Commentary and the officiating are two blind spots that I don’t see ever being properly addressed.  But obviously, as titan sports reminds us, it could always be far worse.

ps I have a pal who spent some time hanging with Knox, and he has nothing but nice things to say about him.  That said, being a nice guy and having performed some fun indie spots don’t make him deserved of an on camera position he is clearly weak at.

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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29 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I agree on the JR needs to stop calling attention to problems.  No matter what they are.  But even more so I don’t understand (other than speculation) why TKhan hasn’t instructed him to fucking cool it.

Rick Knox is very poor at acting ‘being distracted’ and seems to sometimes miss his cues completely.  He also, too often, fails to show any discernment towards blatant rule breaking spots.  Small details but they go a long way in establishing credibility.  

Id love to see Knox go heel and then get moved full time to his backstage role.  I dream of the same fate minus a heel turn for Bryce Remsburg.

I’m not a Bully Raymond fan, but was sad to hear his fair inquiry, on busted open, concerning the poor officiating met with resistance to even a conversation by Coach Tony.  Commentary and the officiating are two blind spots that I don’t see ever being properly addressed.  But obviously, as titan sports reminds us, it could always be far worse.

ps I have a pal who spent some time hanging with Knox, and he has nothing but nice things to say about him.  That said, being a nice guy and having performed some fun indie spots don’t make him deserved of an on camera position he is clearly weak at.

If Tony Khan is going to lay down the law it should be to the talent that is disregarding the rules to do what they consider to be “cool stuff” which buries the referee.

Imagine a 9 year old that had never watched wrestling stumbled upon AEW last week and saw Cody just barely beat the 10 count just to walk into Black’s finisher.

Then imagine that next week the Young Bucks go outside and do a bunch of stuff outside for way longer than a 10 count (never mind the double team spots where everyone is in the ring). It could be confusing to a new viewer why they don’t have to get back in before 10.

AEW has made it clear that there goal is not to exclusively cater to the PWG fans, but that they want to grow their audience. And part of doing that is making the product accessible to new viewers. Having easy to follow rules that are actually followed is a simple tried and true way of doing this.

If they’re not going to do this, JR mentioning the ref has lost control or whatever at least explains to someone not as familiar with wrestling why rules seem to be more important in some matches than others.

And honestly, if the talent, including some of the EVPs, are going to bury the referees with their work, I don’t see why anyone would have an issue with JR piling on, least of all Tony Khan.

Rick Knox being incompetent and terrible at his job is at least a plausible explanation for now as to why rules are not enforced the same in different matches.

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13 minutes ago, Bryan said:

If Tony Khan is going to lay down the law it should be to the talent that is disregarding the rules to do what they consider to be “cool stuff” which buries the referee.

Imagine a 9 year old that had never watched wrestling stumbled upon AEW last week and saw Cody just barely beat the 10 count just to walk into Black’s finisher.

Then imagine that next week the Young Bucks go outside and do a bunch of stuff outside for way longer than a 10 count (never mind the double team spots where everyone is in the ring). It could be confusing to a new viewer why they don’t have to get back in before 10.

AEW has made it clear that there goal is not to exclusively cater to the PWG fans, but that they want to grow their audience. And part of doing that is making the product accessible to new viewers. Having easy to follow rules that are actually followed is a simple tried and true way of doing this.

If they’re not going to do this, JR mentioning the ref has lost control or whatever at least explains to someone not as familiar with wrestling why rules seem to be more important in some matches than others.

And honestly, if the talent, including some of the EVPs, are going to bury the referees with their work, I don’t see why anyone would have an issue with JR piling on, least of all Tony Khan.

Rick Knox being incompetent and terrible at his job is at least a plausible explanation for now as to why rules are not enforced the same in different matches.

Referee's discretion, or referee leniency. Just chalk it up to that. 

Secondly, wrestling referees have been incompetent and virtually blind for 30-40 years, if not longer. This has been ingrained in professional wrestling refereeing for decades.

Why are we suddenly all acting like this is a new thing? 

Also, look at any title match that has a ref bump in it. By the time the referee is bumped and gets hit, that's basically a disqualification right there. Or at the very least it should be. No match should continue after the referee gets attacked and knocked out.

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57 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Referee's discretion, or referee leniency. Just chalk it up to that. 

Secondly, wrestling referees have been incompetent and virtually blind for 30-40 years, if not longer. This has been ingrained in professional wrestling refereeing for decades.

Why are we suddenly all acting like this is a new thing? 

Also, look at any title match that has a ref bump in it. By the time the referee is bumped and gets hit, that's basically a disqualification right there. Or at the very least it should be. No match should continue after the referee gets attacked and knocked out.

I’m not acting like referee incompetence is a new thing but I’m also not acting like announcers calling out bad refereeing is a new thing either. Or that incompetent refs should not be criticized.

A referee being attacked should always result in a dq. But a referee being inadvertently hit is a gray area because it wasn’t intentional. And if say, your feet swing into a refs head when your opponent was performing a maneuver incapacitating the ref, who would stop it and who would be disqualified in that situation?

 

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32 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I’m not acting like referee incompetence is a new thing but I’m also not acting like announcers calling out bad refereeing is a new thing either. Or that incompetent refs should not be criticized.

A referee being attacked should always result in a dq. But a referee being inadvertently hit is a gray area because it wasn’t intentional. And if say, your feet swing into a refs head when your opponent was performing a maneuver incapacitating the ref, who would stop it and who would be disqualified in that situation?

 

Whoever hit the referee. 

I've yet to see any really egregious refereeing in AEW, especially when we're expected to believe for decades that a referee literally can't see Mr. Perfect or a heel putting his feet on the top ropes or his hands on the tights to cheat his way to victory.

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Someone decided to debunk the "AEW signs WWE castoffs" talking point with Spreadsheets and Pie Charts. Thread, if you're into that sort of thing:

 

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6 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Whoever hit the referee. 

I've yet to see any really egregious refereeing in AEW, especially when we're expected to believe for decades that a referee literally can't see Mr. Perfect or a heel putting his feet on the top ropes or his hands on the tights to cheat his way to victory.

Who hit the referee in that situation, you for inadvertently causing the contact trying to perform the move, or your opponent who actually made physical contact?

If it’s the latter that seems like a loophole that could be exploited by heels to get a cheap wins. If it’s the former, it’s not really fair you’re punished for a referee being out of position.

You have a 5 count (although I think AEW might have changed it to 10 a few weeks after it debuted because nobody abided by it) and a 10 count to get back in the ring from the outside. In non FTR matches these rules are usually ignored for stretches of the match. With the Young Bucks it’s sometimes comical how long the double team high spots go on after a tag.

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The thing with Knox that I can’t get over is, over here you have Aubrey, dressed to the nines in her fitted gear and not a hair out of place, and then Knox over there looks like a hobo, with shirt and trousers three sizes too big. Being rake thin only exacerbates it.
 

The ‘cleanliness is next to godliness’ maxim applies here. Any referee who doesn’t take his own appearance on the national stage seriously clearly doesn’t take his officiating duties seriously. He just rolls in off the street to get his pay check, and probably his brown envelope from the Bucks in his back pocket to do their bidding. It’s sickening really.
/s

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2 minutes ago, Custos said:

The ‘cleanliness is next to godliness’ maxim applies here. Any referee who doesn’t take his own appearance on the national stage seriously clearly doesn’t take his officiating duties seriously. He just rolls in off the street to get his pay check, and probably his brown envelope from the Bucks in his back pocket to do their bidding. It’s sickening really.

Were you ever this harsh to the WCW officials that look like they rolled out of a Monster Jam bed?

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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3 hours ago, Bryan said:

If Tony Khan is going to lay down the law it should be to the talent that is disregarding the rules to do what they consider to be “cool stuff” which buries the referee.

Imagine a 9 year old that had never watched wrestling stumbled upon AEW last week and saw Cody just barely beat the 10 count just to walk into Black’s finisher.

Then imagine that next week the Young Bucks go outside and do a bunch of stuff outside for way longer than a 10 count (never mind the double team spots where everyone is in the ring). It could be confusing to a new viewer why they don’t have to get back in before 10.

AEW has made it clear that there goal is not to exclusively cater to the PWG fans, but that they want to grow their audience. And part of doing that is making the product accessible to new viewers. Having easy to follow rules that are actually followed is a simple tried and true way of doing this.

If they’re not going to do this, JR mentioning the ref has lost control or whatever at least explains to someone not as familiar with wrestling why rules seem to be more important in some matches than others.

And honestly, if the talent, including some of the EVPs, are going to bury the referees with their work, I don’t see why anyone would have an issue with JR piling on, least of all Tony Khan.

Rick Knox being incompetent and terrible at his job is at least a plausible explanation for now as to why rules are not enforced the same in different matches.

What is wrong with Cody sliding in just before 10?  I also don't see any issue with leniency on 10 counts.  Those are not examples of problems with referees.  The problems are when a blatant cheat happens in front of a Knox or Remsburg and it's not treated as a blatant cheat.  These moments are often due to them not finding their position with something else happening they can pretend to be interested in.  

Yeah wrestling has a history of ineptitude.  The history of bad ref tropes are fine.  No issues there.  Further, no issues with Paul Turner.  Aubrey's made some mistakes, but she bounces back.  With Remsburg and Knox it seems like they're unaware of their obvious mistakes and are ready for their next batch of blunders.  

I really don't wanna talk JR but for the sake of clarity, Jim's complaining is not a problem when it's part of the story being told (eg. the ref has lost control).  The issue is with him calling attention to mistakes in the show. 

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40 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Who hit the referee in that situation, you for inadvertently causing the contact trying to perform the move, or your opponent who actually made physical contact?

If it’s the latter that seems like a loophole that could be exploited by heels to get a cheap wins. If it’s the former, it’s not really fair you’re punished for a referee being out of position.

You have a 5 count (although I think AEW might have changed it to 10 a few weeks after it debuted because nobody abided by it) and a 10 count to get back in the ring from the outside. In non FTR matches these rules are usually ignored for stretches of the match. With the Young Bucks it’s sometimes comical how long the double team high spots go on after a tag.

To answer your first question, Double DQ! Both men are disqualified! But that's the problem with wrestling refereeing. The referees are always out of position, plus they are BLIND AND/OR DEAF. They cannot see blatant cheating happening right in front of their eyes. Those are loopholes heels have been exploiting for decades. 

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3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

saw this trending on Twitter today. I noticed the original claim came from June of last year.

My understanding is that Darby provided the investigators with some DMs and text messages which apparently exonerated him of the allegations, and that was that. 

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4 hours ago, Bryan said:

Imagine a 9 year old that had never watched wrestling stumbled upon AEW last week and saw Cody just barely beat the 10 count just to walk into Black’s finisher.

Then imagine that next week the Young Bucks go outside and do a bunch of stuff outside for way longer than a 10 count (never mind the double team spots where everyone is in the ring). It could be confusing to a new viewer why they don’t have to get back in before 10.

You believe that's what a 9-year-old thinks about when he's watching wrestling?

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As far as the referee topic goes, I've always just gone with "each referee chooses how hard to enforce certain rules".

It's no difference than James Harden getting a foul called on him every drive down the lane one game vs. no fouls called the next game. They're the same exact thing, but it comes down to referees discretion. Similar to baseball and strike zones. Not all of them are exactly the same. I see referees like Rick Knox as "this guy wants there to be a legit winner and loser" here vs. "we're gonna let a penalty decide the outcome of this game here". No different than referees "letting them play" and any of you who watch sports know that's a thing. Or UFC referees letting guys get an extra 10 seconds to get back up when they're clearly KO'ed (hey Herb Dean!) lol

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