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August 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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5 hours ago, Ace said:

By making his run to the main event be as a heel.

 

In 2015.

 

...exactly like The Vile One alluded to on the previous page, but I hadn't gotten that far yet.

Edited by Shartnado
The Vile One made the same point also
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8 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

I always thought Moxley did a great job coming off as "The Guy" in the summer of 2016 as WWE Champ, and then again in AEW through last year. 

My read on Ambrose/Moxley is that Moxley was the dude from The Shield who really organically got over because the fans got behind him when he embraced the grungy brawler act post-Shield. I think the problem with his WWE title run was not due to Moxley. Moxley was clearly busting his ass off to come off like a top guy, but WWE wasn't positioning him as the true top guy and face of the company. Moxley was treated like a transitional paper champion by WWE. He was the runner-up. His title run was an after-thought. And he never really sniffed the main again after he lost the belt. 

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So what if Mox added elements of Stone Cold to his act? Top talents have always "borrowed" from their predecessors. Look what Hogan took from Superstar Graham and others. Ric Flair was not the first "Nature Boy". There are examples of this throughout wrestling history. 

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Maybe, but I don't think anyone thought the Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia in 1996 would take the WWF to crazy new heights just two years later.

So, by that metric, Luther is going to take the wrestling world back to obscene levels of popularity in 2023.

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27 minutes ago, Infinit said:

So what if Mox added elements of Stone Cold to his act? Top talents have always "borrowed" from their predecessors. Look what Hogan took from Superstar Graham and others. Ric Flair was not the first "Nature Boy". There are examples of this throughout wrestling history. 

Agree it's as old as the hills. This post made me have a flash of him as Mox Baker and now I can't stop laughing. 

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Of course wrestlers borrow from one another all the time. That was never in question. I never said that borrowing is bad in and of itself.

But if you borrow, you'd better be able to pull off whatever elements that you're borrowing, which is a whole different argument that I don't care to get into re: Mox. I don't like his act, people disagree. I think that's fine. Like (or don't like) what you like!

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At this point, 6 or so years into the Roman experience, I think it’s clear that his ceiling is as a HHH-caliber guy—good top heel and someone fans will go along with as a top face, but not someone who’s going to draw and galvanize audiences behind him like your ideal top face would (AKA a Rock-caliber guy). Yes, WWE has bungled their attempts to push him as the top face many times over, but ultimately, I just don’t think he has that Rock/Austin/Cena/Hogan/etc. skill set.

They would’ve been better off letting him be HHH (like they are now) and committing their energies to finding the next Top Guy rather than trying to force Roman as Top Guy to happen. Because now they’re in a situation where they have Roman as an ideal top heel but no next top face identified to build for him, and thus you end up with these soul-suckingly boring Smackdowns that are stuck in the mud because there is nowhere for the story to go (without throwing big money at Hollywood part-timers to come back for alleged dream matches).

Edited by EVA
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27 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? 

Only one that comes to mind through the circumstances:

The opening to the post WrestleMania XXXIII RAW as Roman Reigns gets nuclear heat as we all thought he retired the Undertaker the night before. NSFW.

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2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? 

I don't know if that's what he should have though, part of why I like The Tribal Chief era is he gets to be this strong silent type who can make his points then let Heyman fill in the rest. I like that AEW is letting guys like Darby and Jungle Boy who are a little more soft spoken slowly moving toward higher spots and hopefully Roman can set the precedent that you don't have to be an S Tier promo to still tell a compelling story. (Even if "Acknowledge Me" does feel like "Notice Me, Sempai" when it gets worn out sometimes).

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3 hours ago, Matt D said:

Has Roman ever had a really electric promo moment? 

The promo he he cut his first night back from leukemia?

Thlough, if that’s the standard, who on the roster has had a “really electric promo moment?”  Most of the roster either doesn’t have it in them or will never be put in a position to cut something like that.

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10 hours ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

Summerslam is tomorrow and noone cares. I don't think it takes much power of imagination.

We’ll, they didn’t have any trouble selling tickets, so I dunno how accurate it is to say that “no one cares”.

This isn’t really the place to discuss WWE unless you subscribe to the theory that everything Vince does is terrible.  I just assume that, for the most part, people who want to discuss WWE without being attacked or insulted have moved on and found somewhere else to discuss the shows.

 

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4 hours ago, The Natural said:

Added to YouTube two days ago. First time I've seen this in ages.

IWA:MS Punk was the most fun version of CM Punk we ever had.  He always seemed to enjoy himself there. Whether it was his Hero feud, commentating on the KOTDM or whatever. He always seemed to be having a good time. 

TK kind of has that Ian Rotten spirit of ‘I’ll just book whatever I want and to hell with anyone else”.   I’m hoping that bodes well. 

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12 minutes ago, Eoae said:

This isn’t really the place to discuss WWE unless you subscribe to the theory that everything Vince does is terrible.  I just assume that, for the most part, people who want to discuss WWE without being attacked or insulted have moved on and found somewhere else to discuss the shows.

 

(OK, I'm sure it's happened, but it's not been a regular thing here whatsoever and the mods here are pretty on top of cracking down on abusive behavior. What's happened is that people who like WWE have gone to places who are also enthusiastic about the current product, though people here have been enthusiastic about the product plenty - The Hurt Business, Drew McIntyre, Roman Reigns, etc. When it's an act that is generally thought of as good, *gasp*, people praise it! Any migration away from here re: WWE is just people who hate their favorite company being criticized.)

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I don’t think people here are generally attacked (despite some of the people here that seem to have persecution complexes), but the overall tone is definitely anti the WWF product and it’s business practices, anti Vince/Dunn/Bruce … 

(not that I necessarily disagree mind you)

people here and elsewhere  have been waiting 20 years for a viable alternative and they presumably have it now, 

 

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Even if the people who watch and enjoy WWE aren't personally run down for their fandom, it's surely grating to constantly hear others say how bad the product is. Personally I don't get the idea of watching something you dislike, let alone using the energy to then post about it. At the same time, I'm probably not the only person here who stopped watching WWE and therefore doesn't contribute to those show threads. 

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