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1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I think it’s because football was always a decent lead in, maybe? But with Sunday night being the real big football game, it doesn’t seem like the best night.

The big game used to be Monday Night Football until the NFL sold that package to NBC for Sunday nights.  So now ESPN has a second tier package.  WWE is doing PPV on Sunday nights likely because it "was always done this way."   They have tried weekdays before but I don't believe that worked out well. 

Saturday night isn't the death slot for PPV that they might think.  Yes, more people go out but it's never hurt PPV numbers for UFC or boxing. 

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On 9/10/2020 at 4:51 PM, Craig H said:

Vince will never do it, but for the good of wrestling, NXT and AEW should be kept on separate nights. It's in WWE's best interests to do that. The more they can grow NXT viewership wise, the more people will tune in to eventually see those people get ruined on Raw or SD! They're never going to get anywhere competing on the same night.

I'm shocked that USA hasn't figured out that that they are basically paying Vince to be a dick to his competition. If I'm paying for the show and I can easily get more viewers on Tuesday, you're doing it Tuesday. 

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4 hours ago, Jiji said:

I sure hope so. Having friends over and going hard in the paint is way better Saturday material than Sunday. I never understood the Sunday appeal. Fewer people go out but I like the recovery day. 

I think it started so as to not compete with boxing, back when boxing PPVS (and boxing itself) mattered a lot more

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On 9/10/2020 at 9:32 AM, Craig H said:

Random thought, but Wardlow may be the most handsome man in wrestling. That dude looks like a star. Not saying anything we don't already know.

Handsome for a man!

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My favourite part is them deliberately avoiding committing 100% to the heel turn like it's not so black and white! The above is totally implied tho. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 9:52 AM, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Just to play “Devil’s Asshole”. I believe Cody today is more recognizable than Dawson.

Would anyone who hasn't followed wrestling in the last 20 years have even heard of Cody Rhodes/Runnels?  I've never thought the bubble was all that big unless you're John Cena, the Rock, a couple others.

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35 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Dude, if you cannot even love Boys' Love manga, what's the point of it all?

Unclear.

I guess I'll voice another contrary view and say I don't care for them not 100% committing to the heel turn. I know how much some of these people like splashing around in the nUaNcEd StOrYtElLiNg pool. But after a point, wrestling works best when they pull that cord and just go for it. And they've been wishy-washy with this Elite family drama for months. Time to start tightening things up and drawing clear lines. I hope we're headed in that direction, because too much wishy-washy ambiguity in wrestling tells me something is treading water or over-complicating things. By my assessment, that train is about to leave the station. They just dropped the belts a week ago, so I'll give them more time to tell their story. But thus far:

Spoiler

GayILZB.gif

Also, putting aside all wish-washy Elite drama, him laying hands on Marko after the bell in that six-man should be all it took to solidify him as 100% heel. What a prick. 

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But it's Marko Stunt though. Human punching bag, Marko Stunt. 

I generally think wrestling works best with clear villains and heels but then I think of my favourite wrestling (NJPW 2013-18, early to mid '90s AJW, '90s AJPW) and there were few clear cut villians and more personalities. If that's what they're moving towards, I'm okay with it even though it'll be tough to win over the fans and execute instead of lazy tropes. But, with the stuff on BTE the past month or two, including the follow up to Kenny beating the shit out of Marko and the "meeting your heroes" bit, it does seem like he'll probably be OTT heel cleaner in the end. 

Also, doing tHiS to completely undercut counterpoints as dumb is tired. 

And before somebody comes in to "correct" me (though I don't think they watch AEW), while Hokuto and Kawada were loosely intended to be heels, the crowd did not treat them as such. Same with Omega once he lost a lot of the silly antics when he went to heavyweight.

Edited by Jiji
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I’ve been pretty bad at predicting the direction they’ve been going with all this lately, but I feel like the move here is probably Hangman taking the next couple of weeks to convince Kenny to give it one last go at the belts, getting a rematch with FTR at the anniversary show, and then Kenny sealing the heel turn there, by either walking out on him during the match or turning on him after losing, setting up Kenny/Hangman at Full Gear.

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1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Also, doing tHiS to completely undercut counterpoints as dumb is tired. 

It's also totally rad and you're tired. Neener neener.

Anyway, I don't know about these "lazy tropes" in regards to wrestling storytelling. Tropes, sure, definitely, they're everywhere. But there's a lot of craft to respect in executing long-established and familiar tropes in ways that people still find fun and engaging. Since you acknowledge generally thinking wrestling works best with clear villains and heels, I'm sure you appreciate that (although I don't want to be putting words in your mouth -- or strokes on your keyboard as it were). 

If I had to boil down my feelings about why I'm so in favour of the clear hero-villain divide in this instance, I point back to the best non-wrestling segments in AEW's short existence. For my taste, we've got: 

  • Cody posses up to storm the Inner Circle's suite and get revenge for Jericho and his henchmen's heinous attacks the past few weeks
  • Cody makes an impassioned case for what the world title means to him, the wronged underdog challenger
  • MJF takes liberties during the contractually-obligated whipping of another man that he demanded

All stuff with clear lines. This company is good at that stuff.

The Kenny-Hangman-Bucks story paid off in spades in the ring. They executed it very well at Revolution. But none of the segments building to that really left much of an impression on me. Maybe their acting chops just aren't up to the task, but I don't think Kenny and the Bucks getting into their feelings makes for very good television. Many superkicks and buckshot lariats were had along the way, which is all good fun. But I'm not interested enough in their supposed friendship to care at this point. I'm ready for someone to be the prick and for someone else to be an aggrieved party out for righteous justice. I expect they're wise enough to get us there. But now that we've crossed the Rubicon of Kenny and Hangman losing the tag belts after months and months of ambiguity, I'm about ready to have the issue clearly defined. 

I guess this is my long-winded way of coming to realize that going for "realism" in a sit-down interview setting probably isn't some of these people's forte.

Anyway, I'm hopeful you're right about OTT heel cleaner. As always, I'm happy there are people who are equipped to read the BTE tea leaves for me. 

Edited by Andy in Kansas
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23 minutes ago, Andy in Kansas said:

It's also totally rad and you're tired. Neener neener.

Hurtful. 😟

But, yes. AEW's best work, and I think this is true for most of American wrestling's best throughout history, is based on good vs. evil and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think it's logical when a chickenshit heel suddenly can do things he couldn't previously now that he's a face and is a super bad ass walking tall and all that. But How the Grinch Stole Christmas! is one of my favourite things to read and watch during the holiday season, as are the many different versions of A Christmas Carol, which both feature drastic and instantaneous babyface turns. I just don't love the cognitive dissonance when Flair goes from cowering and getting tossed from the top to getting in Vader's face and landing dope diving attacks from the top, despite loving Flair as both a heel and a face and all of that shit. The transition just doesn't make sense. The few times they do that with training videos and other backstories, while a nice try, usually comes off as very silly. 

Point is Omega has long talked about wanting to change the world. Trying to introduce personalities in mainstream North American wrestling over black and white tropes is probably what he has in mind if I were to take a guess. Maybe that's long term. Maybe that's never. I don't know. I do know that I buy that more and have more faith in it than I do Cody's "shades of grey" shit (dawg, you're a heel). I've enjoyed all of the Omega and Hangman stuff on this ride. Hangman is better at it because he's more subtle and seems the most likable a person in wrestling, or at least comes off that way to me. I was talking to Octopus last week about how Omega works best when trying to prove doubters wrong, with a chip on his shoulder, driven by insecurities. I think a lot of people can identify with that (I do despite having next to no ambition) and while traditionally heelish, there's something very human about it that is refreshing to see and not inherently evil if pulled off a certain way, like how he presented himself in 2016-2018 in NJPW. Universities and educators often talk about trumping binaries and finding a new path. There may be room for that here, despite your very valid points and the likelier predictions that he's wearing aviators and hair extensions by the end of the year. 

Regarding acting criticisms, I feel like this applies mostly to the Bucks but I think more so because they're such natural heels and have been presented as tweener faces for their run in AEW. Now that they're leaning into their cockiness and over the top shit, I think it works better. Just even the way Matt slams the door in such an affected manner after they superkicked Marvez makes me laugh. He's a pure worker, hence why the BTE gimmick of him "blading" to get out of unwanted scenarios makes me laugh so much. 

Edited by Jiji
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22 hours ago, crazypook said:

This is a photo I never dreamed I’d see and never knew I needed in my life until now.

The best part is Stan doing the hook 'em horns and Snoop doing the Crip handsign, when you would think neither would know the other HAD a handsign. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 1:19 PM, Technico Support said:

I dunno man.  A Dark Order redux of Wheel of Fortune hosted by Mr. Brodie Lee would be sweet.  "YOU DUMB FUCK WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUY A VOWEL RIGHT NOW HOLY FUCK"

I want this TV show and on BTE. Kudos, @Technico Support!

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I think it's ok to have shades of grey characters.  AEW has its faces and heels, but it has them on a sliding scale.  It's kinda like how in NJPW SZKG gets cheered when they face off against Bullet Club- they're bad guys, but at least they adhere to a code among themselves and are cool.

Omega's prob going to be 100% heel except vs MJF or Brodie though.

 

 

 

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Should the Jurassic Express ever win the big one as a team? I don’t really think they should unless they have a radical change in look, and personas. Otherwise they are unheralded as the best babyface  tag team today. They never disappoint. I hope Private Party becomes as consistent as them eventually. Their pre-All Out tag match stole the show, and watching the 2019 All Out replay PP did it then too. When those guys are motivated, given a long match time, they can really go. 

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