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Even if there are any "Vince apologists" on the board, they are outweighed by the number of virulently anti Vince people who seemingly use any incident to say how he is evil and so on and so forth. 

(Said as someone who happily does not watch their shows or give them money for the network) 🙂

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1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

The idea that @TheVileOne is a Vince apologist is pretty out there from what I know of them. 

He/him. Also, my point was that not only is Vince to blame, but there was a whole chain of people involved that led to this tragedy, not just Vince. I'm not apologizing for Vince. Pointing out the thing about the blood isn't apologizing either. But the blood thing was an inaccuracy that probably needs to be corrected. Is it apologizing for Vince for pointing the unedited press conference clip makes him look even worse than what was shown in the episode?

Kevin Dunn for how callously he handled breaking that news to Jim Ross. Vince McMahon for not even testing out the stunt himself, which he has supposedly done before multiple times. The whole "Vince won't ask you to do anything he wouldn't do himself." Steve Taylor and anyone under him for cutting corners on the stunt and who they hired. Not returning Robert Branam's phone call or for not listening to Robert Branam. Bobby Talbert, who designed the stunt. These are the names that came up from reading David Bixenspan's articles on this, who at least based on the court documents or this week's episode, had a pretty intimate involvement with the mistakes that led to this tragedy.  Russo & Ferrera or whoever came up with the idea of needing Owen to do the cable stunts. I think when you have a tragedy like this, everyone wants a single scapegoat to point the finger and lay the blame on, but the fact is, I think it's more complicated than that.

Edited by TheVileOne
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The blood thing was always weird to me, because it was clear in photos of Owen after the fall that he didn’t have a tremendous amount of external bleeding, certainly not enough to smear the canvas so vividly.

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They didn't bring up the Idea of using Mascarita Sagrata, I'm sure they would have had to had plans on having the rigging more secure I believe. I get that the Blue Blazer was used to make fun of Hogan and Sting but by Late 98 and '99 I dont remember Sting doing it anymore. Knowing what we know about the pettiness of WWE, it bothers me knowing that the reason he was in the gimmick was a rib in the first place. He had a good this going teaming with Jarrett but they wanted to use the love interest angle that he refused. Even set aside Owen's Moral objections to doing the angle anyone who's watched long enough at that point knows that angle doesn't fit him in that role anyway. I seen a clip of Animal saying how Owen told him personally that he was uncomfortable doing the deal before he left to go to the Airport. I know its wrestling, but image Foley telling people how uncomfortable he is Bumping from the Cell or Someone in a TLC afraid to bump off a 20 ft ladder. They probably won't be doing it especially as a regular part of their deal. It seems like alot to have to invest in for something that is not for a major payoff. 

Bischoff and WCW get alot of Shit for not using Bret the way they could have but WWF should have went all the way with Owen trying to avenge Bret. 

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25 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I get that the Blue Blazer was used to make fun of Hogan and Sting but by Late 98 and '99 I dont remember Sting doing it anymore. 

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I seen a clip of Animal saying how Owen told him personally that he was uncomfortable doing the deal before he left to go to the Airport.

Didn't Sting do the stunt one more time after Owen died? I could've sworn he did.

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I've seen that clip too and it makes no sense. Animal wasn't even working there at the time, and why of all people would he have called him up?

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12 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

Didn't Sting do the stunt one more time after Owen died? I could've sworn he did.

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I've seen that clip too and it makes no sense. Animal wasn't even working there at the time, and why of all people would he have called him up?

I think it's that LOD's memories were shot to shit. Hawk claimed he was the one that came up with the name Doink for Matt Borne when Hawk was long gone by the time Borne got to the WWF.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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Props to Martha for fighting against Vince, She had so much going against her, including half the Harts. Owen isn't persona non grata in WWE, so I dont see the big deal about him not going into the Hall of fame. Kevin Steen acknowledges his name and his son name came from Owen. She now is continuing on his legacy outside of WWE and I think that's the problem with alot of guys is they feel they need be apart of WWE to stay relevant. Even if you look at Flair, it took him till after he retired to gain mainstream fame outside of wrestling doing outside projects and just socially relevant people in pop culture acknowledging how big of a fan they are and that's worth more than anything Vince and company could do it they tried. If someone like Drake, or Kendrick Lamar decided to do songs about Jericho or Bret and had one of the apart  of their entourage they'd be away more over outside of wrestling. 

I'm not anti WWE but I've always had respect for people that stood up to Vince for whatever reason, whether its Warrior or Punk or Bret. Bret and Punk still have no filter and no problem saying something they dont like about WWE or an unpopular opinion unlike most guys that come back or get on good terms with Vince 

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Even if there are any "Vince apologists" on the board, they are outweighed by the number of virulently anti Vince people who seemingly use any incident to say how he is evil and so on and so forth. 

(Said as someone who happily does not watch their shows or give them money for the network) 🙂

Thank you odessa for your monthly everything is not Vince's fault post. This should change some opinions.

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4 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Props to Martha for fighting against Vince, She had so much going against her, including half the Harts. Owen isn't persona non grata in WWE, so I dont see the big deal about him not going into the Hall of fame. Kevin Steen acknowledges his name and his son name came from Owen. She now is continuing on his legacy outside of WWE and I think that's the problem with alot of guys is they feel they need be apart of WWE to stay relevant. Even if you look at Flair, it took him till after he retired to gain mainstream fame outside of wrestling doing outside projects and just socially relevant people in pop culture acknowledging how big of a fan they are and that's worth more than anything Vince and company could do it they tried. If someone like Drake, or Kendrick Lamar decided to do songs about Jericho or Bret and had one of the apart  of their entourage they'd be away more over outside of wrestling. 

I'm not anti WWE but I've always had respect for people that stood up to Vince for whatever reason, whether its Warrior or Punk or Bret. Bret and Punk still have no filter and no problem saying something they dont like about WWE or an unpopular opinion unlike most guys that come back or get on good terms with Vince 

Well, part of that is the steep decline in the popularity of wrestling. I mean you watch the last one or two episodes of The Last Dance and people poo poo this idea that Dennis Rodman took off practice to go do wrestling angles. His run with WCW made him as popular off the court as all of his other antics. Hell, you can even argue it was on the level of the stuff on the court. You cannot say that about any athlete who would go into pro wrestling now. So yeah, Ric Flair doing a music video with Offset is going to give him the rub more than being with WWE. 

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1 hour ago, Peck said:

This will make you smile.

 

A considerably lighter clip in comparison to the rest of the episode, but I really like this one. I imagine this will make it into the extended cut.

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1 hour ago, PetrolCB said:

Didn't Sting do the stunt one more time after Owen died? I could've sworn he did.

He did it a few more times after the accident. I’ve heard him talk about asking Bret for his blessing before he’d agree to do it again. 

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9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

A considerably lighter clip in comparison to the rest of the episode, but I really like this one. I imagine this will make it into the extended cut.

I believe either Martha or Jericho it would be in that showing. 

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I like hearing stories about Owen being a jokester. I think the key to these pranks is that they were good natured and he wasn't bullying people or stealing their passports or throwing their bags or laundry down the road. As Cornette says, "it wasn't destructive."

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4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I believe either Martha or Jericho it would be in that showing. 

It was Martha on the Jericho pod. I haven't watched the clip yet, but she said her favorite Owen rib story was in the VICE special and the clip would be in the extended cut the following week.

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Just watched the Owen doc and I'd never seen the rigging clip that was holding him up before. Blew my fucking mind. "Whatever you do, don't pull that string." Fuck all of that bro.

I understand where Bret is coming from, but I'm pretty much on Martha's side on the HoF topic.

I never thought about Jericho's point that Owen was about to get Benoit/Eddie/Malenko/Angle/Jericho. Owen would have only been 37 during the 2002 Smackdown Six era with Mysterio coming in. His contract probably would have ran out before that, but man - that would have been something.

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On 5/20/2020 at 6:06 PM, clintthecrippler said:

If you are talking about the Stampede footage they showed early on, Owen's opponent was Mike Shaw as Makhan Singh. 

Tenta got his start early in Vancouver, but sadly never worked Stampede during his early years. Lord knows him vs Owen and Pillman in those years would have been incredible.

That said, Owen vs Makhan Singh is still worth going out of your way to check out. Probably the best in-ring work of Mike Shaw's career as well. 

Co-sign 100%. That's the feud I remember from watching Stampede when I was a kid and it's still gold now. Owen was an absolutely awesome babyface with an edge. I still chuckle every time I think about Makhan calling him "Omar" Hart.

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