Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
The Natural

NOVEMBER 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I was already over 30 the first time I saw Phil, at the first Chikara show in 2002. 

I was maybe 20 the first time I saw Punk live and I was a fan of his but I never understood the "all-time great" performer stuff from a guy who I feel had some pretty glaring flaws.   WWE booking didn't help his later years. 

I never bought Edge as an asskicking face either but WWE at least kept him heel for the most part and hid his flaws in garbage matches. 

Kurt's offense looked devastating whether heel or face and he was easily believable in the asskicker role and the cheating prick role...  his ECW run was underrated too.  Just beating the holy hell out of people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

So I can't do a Stan Lane appreciation thread?

Stan Lane's spinning back kick deserves a GIFs thread of its own, tbh. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Comedy Kurt is definitely the best Kurt

When I think of Kurt Angle, it's comedy Kurt, Smackdown Six and what he said to Eddie Guerrero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In your opinion, what are Kurt Angle's best matches?

I personally think that his best matches are:

1)Angle vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 21 ****1/2

2)Angle vs Benoit - Royal Rumble ****1/2

3) Angle vs Benoit - Unforgiven 2002 ****1/4

I noted that a lot of you think that his selling was poor. In particular, what could be an example of that?  Yesterday I watched Benoit vs Angle (Rumble 2003), and I thought that Angle selling was great. I thought that he sold everything so well. 

As you know I am a great fan of Bryan, but I think that objectively Bryan is not so much better at selling than Angle. In the sense, I watched also, for example, Strong vs Bryan (ROH Vendetta 2006). I thought that the match was very good (****), but I noted that Bryan's selling, sometimes, lacked. To explain better, even after 40 minutes, Bryan appeared to be not tired. Is that also a lack of selling? Are we so much biased (even I always thought that Bryan was so much better than Angle)? 

Watching Benoit vs Angle, do you think somebody like Bryan would have been able to deliver a great technical matches, like Angle and Benoit did? In the sense, I also noted that Angle delivered tons of very good matches under 20 minutes, (his Unforgiven match against Benoit was 13 minutes, vs Mysterio (Summerslam 2002 was under 10), vs Edge (Judgment Day 2002- Backlash were under 15 minutes). If he would have been in ROH, with tons of minutes like Bryan did, do you think that he would have delivered tons of more great matches?

Thanks

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I swear I'm not being sarcastic here:

My favorite Angle match is the one where he threw his back out a few minutes in against Nigel in TNA, and they had to scrap like half the planned spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside of Shane/Kurt from King Of The Ring 2001, I can't really think of any matches I've seen that I really liked. Maybe Angle/HHH from the Royal Rumble 2001, but I'm really hard pressed to remember another one. Technical wrestling bores the ever loving fuck out of me, so shit like Angle/Benoit would make me want to gouge my eyes out. I dread to think what Angle in Ring Of Honor would have been like, where he could have had 20+ minute matches. Oh, god.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Great talker. Elite athlete. Only knew how to do one kind of match, regardless if it fit.

giphy.gif

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Announced for RAW tonight

- Seth Rollins IC open challenge

- Baron Corbin vs. Finn Balor

- AOP vs. Roode/Gable - RAW Tag Title Match

- Elias vs. Bobby Lashley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's far better to be less talented but to have a great sense of what to do with the talents you have than to be super talented but to have no idea how to use that talent properly. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Matt D said:

It's far better to be less talented but to have a great sense of what to do with the talents you have than to be super talented but to have no idea how to use that talent properly. 

Jerry Lawler > Kurt Angle

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I swear I'm not being sarcastic here:

My favorite Angle match is the one where he threw his back out a few minutes in against Nigel in TNA, and they had to scrap like half the planned spots.

Kurt had a really simple sly veteran versus young power wrestler match with Matt Morgan on Impact that was less than ten minutes. I don’t think he even hit any of his big spots and won with a leverage pin. I remember thinking how much I wanted to see that Kurt on television every week. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels like Balor has only faced off against Lashley or Corbin this year. It's just the same shit over and over again.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Craig H said:

It feels like Balor has only faced off against Lashley or Corbin this year. It's just the same shit over and over again.

Only break from that rinse cycle was versus Braun, Reigns and Miz/Rollins at WrestleMania XXXIV. Finn Balor's injury was one of the worst timed in wrestling history from Seth Rollins in the match to crown the first WWE Universal Champion at SummerSlam 2016 and had to vacate it on RAW the next night. RAW is devoid of stars unlike Smackdown Live and yet Balor is underutilized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Announced for RAW tonight

- Seth Rollins IC open challenge

- Baron Corbin vs. Finn Balor

- AOP vs. Roode/Gable - RAW Tag Title Match

- Elias vs. Bobby Lashley

Three hours of the same show you've seen for the past 6 months!

One of the reasons I hate the draft split and I think it needs to go away.

That "tag title contenders defeat tag champs in a non title match and then lose in the title match when it matters" angle is beyond it's selling point.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Matt D said:

It's far better to be less talented but to have a great sense of what to do with the talents you have than to be super talented but to have no idea how to use that talent properly. 

So you agree that Punk should have scrapped most of his moveset then?  Yes,  that's true. Damn true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, francescofuoco1998 said:

In your opinion, what are Kurt Angle's best matches?

It's not controversial at all to say Mysterio got the most out of Angle with their sprints. They go balls out every time and compact every positive aspect of Angle into Rey's reductionist formula, leaving no fat around the edges. It's bite-sized Omega-Okada. Check out their match from the 1/23/03 Smackdown. Eddie also worked really smart with Angle and they had a fun series. And of course they all worked pretty well together in the Smackdown Six tag stuff. 

Didn't care at all for the Lesnar series, but Austin cut a hell of a pace with Angle in 2001. Summer Slam is a hell of a fight, from what I recall.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/25/2018 at 7:29 AM, RIPPA said:

Starrcade results - I will use spoiler tags just in case their is one person who was all I DON'T WANT THE NETWORK SPECIAL RUINED FOR ME!!!!

  Hide contents

Sasha Banks, Bayley, Ember Moon & Dana Brooke defeated Nia Jax, Tamina, Alicia Fox & Mickie James (Sasha submitted Alicia)

Drew McIntyre defeated Finn Balor

The B-Team defeated The Revival (Axel pinned Dash)

Cesaro & Sheamus defeated The New Day (Tag Title Match

Bray Wyatt defeated Baron Corbin (Bray answered the open challenge due to Braun's injury)

Bray Wyatt defeated Baron Corbin in a no DQ match (Corbin ordered a restart as No DQ. Dolph and Drew came out to help. Finn and Elias made save.)

Charlotte Flair defeated Asuka

Rey Mysterio defeated United States Champion Shinsuke Nakamura by DQ (Nak attacked Ray during Miz TV. Ray was wearing a neck brace to sell injuries)

Rey Mysterio & Rusev defeated United States Champion Shinsuke Nakamura & The Miz (Rusev had made save when Miz interfered above)

AJ Styles defeated Samoa Joe in a steel cage match

Seth Rollins defeated Dean Ambrose in a steel cage match (IC title - Rollins won via escape)

 

I cancelled the Network in a fit of pique over Saudi Arabia and I'm certainly not going to re-order it for this show. Ick.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

So you agree that Punk should have scrapped most of his moveset then?  Yes,  that's true. Damn true. 

Moveset is a funny thing where it should not only be things you do well but have some sort of insight into the character and their strengths.  Punk''s set never really worked because his execution was shoddy which failed to accentuate his 'Best in the World' gimmick.  If he would have done things he could do well rather than scoop up moves from Japan, he would have been better served.  He didn't realize and work to his limits.   

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Edwin said:

Three hours of the same show you've seen for the past 6 months!

One of the reasons I hate the draft split and I think it needs to go away.

They're just going old school. Back to the days when there was only one or two PPVs a year, so guys literally would have six to twelve month feuds that never progressed at all from week to week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, francescofuoco1998 said:

In your opinion, what are Kurt Angle's best matches?

I personally think that his best matches are:

1)Angle vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 21 ****1/2

2)Angle vs Benoit - Royal Rumble ****1/2

3) Angle vs Benoit - Unforgiven 2002 ****1/4

I noted that a lot of you think that his selling was poor. In particular, what could be an example of that?  Yesterday I watched Benoit vs Angle (Rumble 2003), and I thought that Angle selling was great. I thought that he sold everything so well. 

As you know I am a great fan of Bryan, but I think that objectively Bryan is not so much better at selling than Angle. In the sense, I watched also, for example, Strong vs Bryan (ROH Vendetta 2006). I thought that the match was very good (****), but I noted that Bryan's selling, sometimes, lacked. To explain better, even after 40 minutes, Bryan appeared to be not tired. Is that also a lack of selling? Are we so much biased (even I always thought that Bryan was so much better than Angle)? 

Watching Benoit vs Angle, do you think somebody like Bryan would have been able to deliver a great technical matches, like Angle and Benoit did? In the sense, I also noted that Angle delivered tons of very good matches under 20 minutes, (his Unforgiven match against Benoit was 13 minutes, vs Mysterio (Summerslam 2002 was under 10), vs Edge (Judgment Day 2002- Backlash were under 15 minutes). If he would have been in ROH, with tons of minutes like Bryan did, do you think that he would have delivered tons of more great matches?

Thanks

 

Where have you been, man? We haven't had a good argument for ages... 😉  Only you would be able to pick two of my favorite Angle matches and one of my least favorite in their top three. For two of them the obvious commonality is Benoit, who could make you believe Gran Naniwa, let alone a guy who could actually wrestle. Left to his own devices, Angle tries way too hard to cram too many spots into each match. It's okay, Kurt we know that you are a REAL wrestler; you don't have to prove it every match. I think it was Fowler made a point about a surprisingly good TNA match wherein Angle hurt his back and was curtailed from doing a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, sometimes less is more... Which brings us to the third of three matches, this one featuring my least favorite main-eventer of the last couple of decades, the original Mr. I WILL GET ALL MY SHIT IN AND DAMN THE TORPEDOS Shawn Michaels. I know that I am in the minority, but there has never been a Shawn Michaels match that I felt any connection to. "But, wait" people will say, "You like lucha libre, that's even more contrived!" Yes, this would seem an inconsistency in taste, but it really isn't. I watch certain types of wrestling with a different mind-set, with lucha I've set the willing suspension of disbelief at the very end of the dial.  I love trios matches and I know that I'm going to see goofy, overly-choreographed stuff like three-way dives and timed dropkicks, that's okay; I expect that. Now if the AJPW tag-teams of the 1990s did shit like that I'd be ballistic, because it doesn't fit... The NA style (read: WWE style) of wrestling brings with it a certain mindset of simulated combat. No one (to my mind) has ever done it better than Chris Benoit and no one at the top level of the profession has ever done it worse than Shawn Michaels and Mick Foley (long as I'm slaughtering one sacred cow I might as well go for two). 

Angle and Michaels either bring out the best in each other or the worst, depending on your POV. To me, it's the worst, a mash-up of two styles that are completely at odds with each other. It's a mix of heavy metal and cool jazz, I like both, but not at the same time. What makes matters infinitely worse is that both men seem to be laboring under the impression that they are getting paid in accordance with how many different M OVEZ they get in. Kurt's trying to show-off both his legit wrestling cred and everything he learned in WWE, whereas Michaels is doing his usual human pinball routine which would be far more suited to a high speed lucha libre-based  match with someone like, oh, I don't know, maybe Rey ? (Trying to think of someone that they had on the roster at the time that would be a good match-up and that's part of the problem. Michaels did his thing as though he was working in a vacuum and there really wasn't anyone else in the WWE that could or would adapt to what he was doing. Now that you have guys like Mustafa Ali, Gran Metalik, etc. in 205 Live and guys like Ricochet in NXT, there's more opportunity for decent matches of this sort. The trouble is, now you have a guy in his fifties with a bad back attempting this stuff, not a guy in his thirties at his peak physical condition. 

As far as Angle goes, he went very quickly from something pretty special to pretty standard WWE wrestler who was better on the stick than most. Other than matches mitigated by the presence of Chris Benoit, (which I still have trouble watching for other reasons), I can't think of any Angle matches that I rewatch. It's funny, but of the current crop that I rewatch the wrestlers are in either NXT, NJPW, 205 Live or NXT UK.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...