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ALL ENCOMPASSING STAR WARS THREAD


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30 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Andor is fucking great.  Chief Hyne may be the best cop boss I have seen in recent memory on any show.  He knew the security dudes that were trying to shake Cassian down were up to no good, so he set them up with a dignified end and did not even bother with an investigation since he realized the dudes had it coming and got killed trying to extort the wrong man.  

Should've had better intuition about that try-hard, over-achieving bozo working under him.  

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Should've had better intuition about that try-hard, over-achieving bozo working under him.  

Karn just seems to have an overdeveloped sense of justice and he may come around later on and figure out that Andor is on the right side.

I think that Karn's subordinate, Mosk, is the guy we probably have to worry about, especially since the actor playing him is Alex Ferns who also played the gigantic douchebag antagonist, Trevor Morgan, on EastEnders.

Pre-Mor Security does not fuck around.  I love how no one in the history of Star Wars has ever set their blaster to Stun since the Troopers tasered Leia in A New Hope.

Where was Tony Gilroy when Solo was being pitched.   That movie probably would've been 10000000 times better if had been as grimy as Andor is.  I want a Solo do-over with Gilroy at the helm.

Edited by J.T.
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So yeah, my interest level in this show was nonexistent when it was first announced. I LOVED Rogue One, but I didn't know that Cassian Andor was a character I was interested in exploring more. SHIT I WAS WRONG. This show is incredible, and it's mostly based around how un-Star Wars it feels. No hamfisted cameos, no rush to make it all connect to everything else, but at the same time, it still furthers the overall SW narrative.  It just happens to be a gripping thriller set in the Star Wars galaxy.

I also really, really like the fact that, at least through 3 episodes, someone who knows absolutely nothing about Star Wars could watch this show and get full enjoyment from it.

A show like this is how you "subvert expectations" with Star Wars. Not by trying to force something with legacy characters that fans will reject, but by taking an unexplored part of the mythos and making it in a completely different style than what we are used to.

Edited by RandomAct
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Thought the first three episodes were solid-good if a bit slow. I think TheVileOne was on the right track about them probably needing to keep or make it a movie. Andor's backstory is interesting, and I dug the general theme and look. Kind of love how the security were mostly comprised of 9-5ers trying to get through the job with only Mosk and Hyne's group being wannabe Imperials. The Security chief was awesome. His ability to gleam what happened based on Hyne's report and what he knew of the men was so damn spot on. Felt sorry for Bix though her shitty boyfriend brought all of that shit on himself.

What I'm really digging is that this seems to be the live action project where we will truly explore the seedier and darker aspects we knew existed in Star Wars. We saw bits in Rogue One, but it wasn't the movie to fully explore that aspect with the story they had. And as much as some wanted Solo to be more of this I feel people kind of forget the entire point of Han is that he isn't this guy. This is the type of shit he pretended and maybe at one point wanted to be opposed to who he actually is. Andor on the other hand is completely this guy, and I'm looking forward to seeing this part of the Star Wars universe explored with him.

 

 

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So, Andor is really fucking great.

For me, it's so nice not to have it just be a constant barrage of "HEY LOOK AT THIS STAR WARS THING YOU REMEMBER FROM SOME OTHER STAR WARS THING!"

The show is doing a great job showing the Empire slowly choking the galaxy and why people would start resisting that.

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On 10/1/2022 at 2:20 PM, twiztor said:

so i finally watched Solo. 

it was .... fine i guess? i mean, i liked it enough, but it just never grabbed me. also, despite all the characters and references, it just didn't feel like 'Star Wars' to me.

I hate Solo because it builds on the revised Greedo bullshit.  Han was ruthless.  It was Leia's love and Luke's courage that made him want to be a better man.

If Solo had kept the Han Shot First vibe, it would have probably felt a lot grimier like Andor does and that would've been a far better movie.  The first fifteen minutes of the first episode of Andor has the tone I wanted to see in a proper movie about Han Solo..

Edited by J.T.
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4 hours ago, J.T. said:

I hate Solo because it builds on the revised Greedo bullshit.  Han was ruthless.  It was Leia's love and Luke's courage that made him want to be a better man.

If Solo had kept the Han Shot First vibe, it would have probably felt a lot grimier like Andor does and that would've been a far better movie.  The first fifteen minutes of the first episode of Andor has the tone I wanted to see in a proper movie about Han Solo..

The problem with this take and the whole Han shot first fans is that its kind of bullshit. Take out that moment like Lucas did, and its literally the only sign we ever have of Han being so ruthless in the original trilogy. People keep wanting a Han Solo that has never really existed. 

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Started watching Andor, really just the first two or three episodes, and this is so wildly different than anything I've seen from Star Wars since, well, Rebel One I guess. But this is even grittier than that. The events of the first episode that kick things off were shocking. And then there's nearly a quasi-sex scene. Andor being on the run is some harrowing shit and the introduction of corporations as law enforcement is fascinating.

Like, I'm fine when they get back to Jedis and shit like that because it's Star Wars and it's inevitable, but stuff like Andor shows just the breadth of scope that exists within this universe that car be explored.

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15 hours ago, Eivion said:

The problem with this take and the whole Han shot first fans is that its kind of bullshit. Take out that moment like Lucas did, and its literally the only sign we ever have of Han being so ruthless in the original trilogy. 

Eh, Han is in it for the money nearly the entire movie.  It's only after Leia's guilt trip and Luke selflessly volunteering for the Death Star attack do we start to see flashes of genuine heroism.  That shit on the Death Star is all about Han knowing that dead men can't spend money and that Leia is worthless to him if she's dead.  No reward, no reimbursement to Jabba for the lost shipments.

Day One Han would be a likeable but morally bankrupt dirtbag and it might've been great.

Edited by J.T.
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11 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Eh, Han is in it for the money nearly the entire movie.  It's only after Leia's guilt trip and Luke selflessly volunteering for the Death Star attack do we start to see flashes of genuine heroism.  That shit on the Death Star is all about Han knowing that dead men can't spend money and that Leia is worthless to him if she's dead.  No reward, no reimbursement to Jabba for the lost shipments.

Day One Han would be a likeable but morally bankrupt dirtbag and it might've been great.

I mean generally speaking you don't take a job to rescue a princess on the the most dangerous Imperial vessel known just to make ends meet. Even with owing Jabba it realistically wouldn't have been worth it for most. It also isn't remotely on the same level as murdering a security guard who is begging for his life.

Morally bankrupt Han has never really existed the way some fans want him to. The guy was always intended to be a somewhat reluctant hero.

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58 minutes ago, A_K said:

How "morally bankrupt" can the director determine to present you as being when you walk around with a feisty but affable huge furry bear? 

You mean the ones that tear your arm out of the socket if they lose at chess?

4 hours ago, Eivion said:

I mean generally speaking you don't take a job to rescue a princess on the the most dangerous Imperial vessel known just to make ends meet.

The fucking starship got pulled into the Death Star with a tractor beam and they had to shut it down in order to escape.  What other choice did they have than to stick with the plan and by plan I mean the shit they made up as they went along?

Edited by J.T.
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Han Solo’s arc is that he acts like he doesn’t care about or believe in anything but his conscience forces him to reluctantly do the right thing. The more human connections he makes the easier it becomes for him to act with courage and self sacrifice. The film Solo is about how he became callous and self-serving as a way to keep himself from being hurt.

It’s part of what makes the Ben Solo stuff work.  Solo was a character Han put on as an act of physical and emotional self preservation, and Kylo Ren functions in a similar way for Ben. 

Edited by (BP)
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He's a rough & ready, roguish space cowboy. Dude likes to gamble, smuggle and shoot guns. Who doesn't. Doesn't make him morally bankrupt though ? Eventually he gets a little more mature, realises the greater stakes at play and that sometimes you've got to face the music & be counted.

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Five episodes in, the cracks in the series are starting to show. I'm a bit mixed on it right now. Some of my scattered thoughts:

* I think from a visual, production standpoint, this show is really unparalleled as far as any other live-action Star Wars TV series and many other live-action streaming series period. Halo looked like garbage compared to this. Lucasfilm spent a possible $180-$200 million if not more on this season, and it you can see it on screen.

* By this episode, I'm already over the Syril subplot. It's becoming a sci-fi Woody Allen film at this point. I didn't need the scenes with Syril's overbearing mother to understand his obsession and how he's obsessed with getting Andor. But where are we going with this? 

* Not to mention, we have like a dozen other subplots going on that this is starting to feel like an over-written soap opera. Man, Mon Mothma's family life sucks. Her daughter is a total brat and has no respect for her. Her husband is an asshole who takes glee in their daughter verbally insulting his wife. At first, I was kind of excited to learn more about Mon Mothma because she's been this important background character for years, and now this is just starting to feel rather extraneous and superfluous. I'm getting that her husband is suspicious of her extracurricular activities and could in fact turn out to be an Empire loyalist or just doesn't want his wife involved for their own protection, but whatever.

* I think the best thing is Andor's interaction with the other rebel guerrilla fighters. Andor hasn't been fully indoctrinated into the cause yet, so the show is his journey toward that. I think the dynamic with the rebel group and gradually earning their trust and coming clean worked, especially with Skeen. I got the sense that Vel and Cinta were in a romantic relationship. That felt like the subtle impression. The kid Nemik is a bit of a dreamer, but I imagine his information will help the Rebel Alliance become a more organized group. I'm assuming that Vel and Luthen have some sort of relationship or indirect familial connection.

* The stuff with Blevin and his toadie felt extraneous to me. Like it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Empire is moving into Andor's old town and setting up shop. But it just seems to be adding in a lot of unnecessary drama. 

* And then we have ISB agents Dedra Meero and her toadie. Dedra is clearly onto something and realizes that this is the start of the Rebel Alliance. So...end game is what? ISB realizes there's a Rebel Alliance and in a galactic civil war? Dedra gets a promotion? An audience with Darth Vader? Emperor Palpatine? Like, I think the acting is like solid, but I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care about Dedra and the ISB agents investigating the Rebel Alliance and this much attention.

* Now on one hand, lots of setup. This will be good because next week will be lots of action. With 12 episodes, it looks like they are pacing things in three episode segments. First three episodes was like a little movie. Now we are in the next three-parter setting up the siege in Aldhani. They stopped just before the raid, so that means next episode will have to mostly be the raid on Aldhani. That means it will have to be a very action-packed climactic episode. Building up to a big battle blowoff episode can be good as we will be given more time to focus on the battle. IMHO the problem is that the setup and development can be a little frustrating.

* Here's the weird thing, despite the dozens of subplots and characters, these episodes feel a bit short to me. These aren't even legit 40-42 minute episodes. But like they are spending all this money to give us Syril and his sci-fi apartment and interstellar cocoa puffs. Arguably, if you cut out some of these extra subplots and gave these episodes another 20 minutes, we actually could've maybe had a big climax this episode instead of putting it off for the next one.

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