cwoy2j Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 On 9/16/2016 at 1:11 PM, J.T. said: Sting didn't do a lot of leg work or lower back work to set up the Scorpion. He used a lot of high impact though, so the general idea was that Sting's offense just took a physical toll on you until he just mercy killed you with the Scorpion. Same principle as Ricky Steamboat killing you with science and cardio. Nothing he did really set up the High Cross Bodyblock directly, but his arsenal of holds wore you down and made you susceptible to one last high impact move and you were too tired and too hurt to kick out. It is pretty remarkable how Sting's offense really hasn't changed all that much since his heel days in UWF. He's made you accept that he is a face that mostly brawls like a heel by sheer force of overwheling positive charisma alone. Dusty touched on this during his commentary in the Flair/Windham Worldwide match. He said something like, "you break down one part of a man, then you break down another part and then another and then you got him all the way broken down and go for your finish b/c he can't block it." I thought that was pretty good analysis and shows you don't have to work just one specific body part to get a win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Bumping this up for a talking point. You need to balance between finishers for how many it takes. If you don’t kickout of one when it tends to take two, that wrestler looks bad. However it restablishes the move again as a one and done. I’m thinking recently of Brock Lesnar’s F5 on Samoa Joe at WWE Great Balls of Fire 2017. The opposite is a finisher hit numerous times and it’s kicked out twice or more, it’s overkill and doesn’t protect the move as once it was. I’m thinking to Tetsuya Naito’s Destino such as against Kenny Omega in the G1 Climax 27 final, too much in it. It’s a fine line between the two judging it right, it goes back before this year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Hell of a bump, kid. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 hour ago, PetrolCB said: Hell of a bump, kid. Petrol's hip to the whole scene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It's probably the second biggest NJPW show of the year, it's fine to do that in a main event, I'd be more concerned about the 19 finisher level moves they also kicked out of before those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Someone more adept at understanding puroresu psychology can correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they tend to lean more towards "accumulated damage" more than "one and done" when it comes to finishers as a general rule? Hence every Tanahashi match ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I'd tend to say that's true. It's very common to see a guy kick out of a finisher or two, despite being "done". So it's not that the finishers are being blown off, it just puts over the loser's ~fighting spirit~, since he's willing to keep fighting in the face of certain defeat. The Omega/Naito match actually does this, since you know Kenny is finished, and the final Destino is just a formality. The other thing to note with Naito and Okada is they essentially have counter/flash versions of their finisher, and then the full on wrist-clutch version--the latter being more effective. You'll also see the rare big match finisher (which is usually one and done), and an accumulation of strikes used to end things. Misawa did both. If the standard Tiger Driver didn't work, he could go to the '91, the Emerald Frosion, or he could just elbow you into oblivion. (The kicking out at one phenomenon is slightly related, I think, in that the person doing it almost always loses; they're selling while demonstrating one last desperate surge of energy that, once expended, will leave them empty.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: Petrol's hip to the whole scene. ...what scene? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Watching the Mae Young Classic, I remembered how much I like the full nelson slam as a finisher. It is simple, but always looks impactful. I've always thought someone should kind of do a full nelson/uranage where they swing the guy out and fall with them like a rock bottom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, PetrolCB said: ...what scene? the bathroom scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: the bathroom scene Look, Eddie, don't take this personally, but when I sign back in, I'm posting over there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowanole Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I’m going to bump this because of the horrible finisher Ilya Dragunov uses in WXW called the Torpedo Moscow. It’s a running, leaping head butt. For as much punishment as he takes/dishes out in his matches, it’s incredibly bad, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Huh? Isn't it basically the Kokeshi headbutt but with more pace? It totally suits his psychotic character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 22 hours ago, iowanole said: I’m going to bump this because of the horrible finisher Ilya Dragunov uses in WXW called the Torpedo Moscow. It’s a running, leaping head butt. For as much punishment as he takes/dishes out in his matches, it’s incredibly bad, imo. To me, it is one of those ones that suffers by comparison to other finishers. Realistically, a 200lb guy jumping at you and hitting you in the chest would put you down for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowanole Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Liam said: To me, it is one of those ones that suffers by comparison to other finishers. Realistically, a 200lb guy jumping at you and hitting you in the chest would put you down for a while. And maybe that's it. But if I have to pause or rewind something to try and figure out what just happened/why it would be a finisher, then it's not a good finisher, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 He's using his body as a weapon. Nothing more to it than that. Seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I looked it up and thought it was a flying European uppercut or back elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Worst: Fuckin' handstand cutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The Jay Lethal thing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The Tomakazie (Tommy Rogers) was always my fave because it looked like it would kill a guy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 3 hours ago, The Natural said: Worst: Fuckin' handstand cutter. Shit yeah, this. Is it a cool spot for a cruiserweight to whip out once in a while? Yes. Is it an acceptable finisher? Hell no. Time just stands still as the recipient stands there, ostensibly stunned, waiting for it. I hate any kind of "signature defensive spot." Like Trish's "Stratusphere" move. You'd have women who never did any flying moves suddenly get the urge to climb the buckles when they were wrestling Trish. So dumb. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 That fucking springboard cutter that Cena and Ospreay do are just as awful as the Lethal Injection, Jay's has just a slightly fruitier embellishment (TM whoever came up with that term) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: That fucking springboard cutter that Cena and Ospreay do are just as awful as the Lethal Injection, Jay's has just a slightly fruitier embellishment (TM whoever came up with that term) Yep, and with the same criticism as Lethal's version. It's over-complicated and time just stands still as his opponent stands in the ring waiting for it to happen. I mean look at this stupid shit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 At least the guy's athletic enough to do it. When Cena did it, it was generally botched to all Hell every time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Osprey debuted a very silly new finisher recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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